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Guys -
<br>I have a copy of the Point Blank at Long Range (PBLR, Darryl) video, and, to all those who say it can't be done, I say, send $24.95 to Keenvision and watch it happen.
<br>
<br>You can actually see the heat signature (I guess that's what it is) of the bullet as it arcs in on the deer. Just incredible. I've just about worn the tape out watching it, and just looking at it is addictive - the missus is hiding the checkbook, Boyd smile
<br>
<br>Till two months ago, I figured long range hunting was just a stunt. Not now.
<br>
<br>No, Keenvision is not paying me a commission, but, I hope they put me on the list for the next video.
<br>
<br>R-WEST


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RWEST,
<br>We are currently working on a HOW TO video so that the ever so increasing number of folks getting into long range are showed how to do things correctly. People must first be educated in this sport before they just go slinging lead. I'll post when the video is complete. Point Blank From Long Range VOL2 is gonna be a dandy.
<br>P.S. I'll put you on the list. THANK YOU !

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Hello Big Hunter and Cazador and Kodiak
<br>
<br>Big Hunter---- the MK will expand at that range (2000 yards) and a bit further without a problem. We have killed probably 25 elk now at ranges that are unbelievable and have only recovered two bullets that did not penetrate all the way through and they were just on the far side and just under the hide. Both were mushroomed perfectly with about half of the core left and the jacket peeled back the way you would want to see a bullet expand. The exit holes on all the kills were very large and some penetrated one or both shoulders. When hit behind the shoulder slightly, the exit holes are the size of a grapefruit to that of a vollyball. We have killed one elk at 500 yards, The rest were all over 1100 Yds.
<br>
<br>Cazador
<br>In north central PA, with all the doe permits that have been given out over the years, your lucky to see a deer for the most part in our area. I remember seeing herds of 50 and 60 go by me back in the 60s. Nice bucks were everywhere. Lots of Doe too.
<br>Now the game commision and Gary Alt wants you to believe that to kill as many doe as possible will really bring the herd back? This is nonsense and the city hunters are buying it because they can go kill more deer now.
<br>We live in the area and see what is there and whats coming to the feeders on our land. I have been in this area for 40 years and seeing the herd reduced because of Money hungry State Government legislative bodies, is sickening. They are pressured by the State Forrest because the deer eat the small buds of young seedlings and stop the growth of that tree. No future growth of trees so, that means less money to the State from log sales.
<br>Now comes the Insurance companies. They are pressuring the polititions in Harrisburg to lower the herd because of deer, car claims. No doubt payoffs going on too.
<br>
<br>We the hunters will suffer in the long run. It's hurting the economy in the small mountain towns right now and has been for a few years now.
<br>Talk about keeping a young hunter away from hunting. How many of todays youth will go out hunting and freeze his rear end off and NOT see a deer all day? This is happening in our area.
<br>
<br>If anything turns him away from hunting it will be because of the absence of deer, buck or doe.
<br>
<br>That's what's happening in the Northern counties of PA.
<br>There's counties that need the doe thinned out but not our area.
<br>
<br>Kodiak---Your in a different situation by far in your area. However, I have a friend in Delta Junction AK that is a LR hunter and he goes in and is dropped off by Helicoptor and stays there for weeks on end.
<br>
<br>Have a good one---
<br>
<br>I hate hot dogs now. I'll bring marshmellows next time.
<br>
<br>Darryl

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Big Sky,
<br>I made a post on LRH(Angles) Lets see what the guys come up with.

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PBLR...Dave King will have a field day with that one

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PBLR, thanks! I'll be sure to check out.


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Darryl
<br>By saying helicopter I hope you mean float plane. It's a tad illegal to use a helicopter for hunting transportation.
<br>
<br>


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Butch
<br>
<br>One of my CIA secrets, now I got to kill you.
<br>I'll let you in on a secret but nobody else can read this OK?
<br>
<br>A small protractor glued on a small level works real nice for sighting along the rifle stock or barrel and getting the angle you intend to shoot. All you need is drop charts for every 5 degrees angle for your load and it works real nice. You can also mount this on the side of your stock with a horizontal line printed on the stock. As the rifle is raised or lowered in the bags, just turn the protactor/level till the bubble is in the middle and read what degree the line is cutting.
<br>There are other methods but, that's enough CIA stuff for one day.
<br>
<br>Later
<br>Darryl

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R-WEST.Sorry to hear about the check book thing.The way I got around the money thing with my wife was.When you buy a new gun or rangefinder or something like that.You have to buy her a Diamond ring or a new car or something along those line's.Alway's worked for me.................................

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Kodiac
<br>
<br>He is dropped off by the chopper and also uses a snow machine and a small trailor with runners on to take his gear in.
<br>He also works with animal bioligists, which helps.
<br>Float planes are used mostly though. The chopper deal was quite sometime ago from what I was told.
<br>When he takes off on his snow machine, you never know when he's coming back and with what on the trailer. Great place up there.
<br>
<br>later
<br>Darryl

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Boyd,
<br>Your scaring me with that one. DAVE, IF YOU HAPPEN TO READ THIS PLEASE KEEP YOUR REPLY AS BASIC AS POSSIBLE. hehehe

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PBLR.CHECK YOUR E-MAIL...

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Darryl
<br>The snow machine is legal, but I wouldn't crawl into the helicopter with him to go hunting. They can only be used legally for rescueing hunters. Now, if you knew you needed rescued in advance(because you are going to shoot a moose at long range=lots of packing), maybe it would be OK.


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OK Laser Butch--I changed my mind and will give you CIA secret #2
<br>
<br>When you were up at my place you tried the Military Laser. It has the Horizontal and verticle degree angles built into the Azemeth base. You missed that. I didn't mention any of the CIA stuff then, but I'm in a chartible mood now.
<br>
<br>I also have two sets of military Bigeyes that once the tripod bubble is level, they will also give you both readings.
<br>
<br>The military lasers are looking better all the time????
<br>
<br>
<br>Later
<br>Darryl

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AFP. maybe you should ask a few 'Joe pilots' what they think of what you do before announcing what you think 'Joe pilot' is thinking. As An average 'Joe pilot' most of my ilk realize the kind of flying you do is specialized and requires learned not born skills. Most of those I know who fly also realize that the Government spent a wad of money to have you learn those skills and that a lot of us would also aquire those skills if qranted the same resources as the US Airforce. Happy landings and may the tail always trail.pak


'Often mistaken, never in doubt'

'Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge' Darwin
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Just a few observations on this wrangle. I have been to Bodines and watched them shoot. For anyone that has never been to a 1000yd BR competition, you wouldn't believe it without seeing it. I know a few folks that shoot there, but none of these fellers that are posting here. When Alex Wardrop was still building rifles he did a few small jobs for me. Alex once built me an economy rodent/deer thumper in 25-06, on my FN M98 action, that should've cost three times as much, if accuracy was the criteria for payment. I believe he was involved in your sport some years back.
<br>
<br>One of you should've pointed out that the 3.151" record is for 10 shots, not 5 as it is in several other record groups one sees jabbered about. I have an old bud that builds longrange varminters which are essentially 1000yd BR guns. Don't think he competes much at Bodines, but I believe he still belongs to the club. Lives in Potter County, lives to vaporize woodchucks. Drives the world's ugliest black GMC truck in existence, so you may know him on sight. I have seen him liquify woodchucks at close to a 1000yds and bury quite a few more in dirt at well beyond that distance. He's an old buddy of Frank "Ballon-arse" Webber.
<br>
<br>I have used some of the gear these folks have talked about: Bushnells in the brackets, Barr & Stroud optical range finder (which I thought were Canadian WWI artillery in origin) and have seen the wash of the bullet in humid air, at over a 1000yds, on it's way towards a rodent.
<br>Folks whose experience with rifles runs mainly to offhand shots with deer rifles and varminting from a Harris bipod with 220 Swifts have no idea what's involved in the LR stuff these birds are talking about.
<br>
<br>I hunt in Tioga County myself. Don't quite agree with the comments about our PA deer management, but to each their own.


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Darryl,
<br>Yes, I caught the details of the Russian Laser (Are you kidding,Man I have that thing Lasered into my head)
<br>Gonahav1 no doubt about it. Did you see the slope dope? That thing is pretty interesting. Looks somewhat easy to make though. I had to make a note of that thing so as not to forget to mention it in the tape. (Boyd, Where are you?)

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I'm right here......

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I checked my email Nothing Whats up? I just got back from my dads birthday party.

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Just got back in and tried getting caught up on this thread and have a few comments:
<br>
<br>1. It doesn't matter how far from the road a long range hunter gets, any hunter I know shoots game where legal, if I could hunt off the side of the road, see game and enjoy it I would!!! The little patch of woods I deer hunt in is only 400 yds from the road, but that's where the deer live!! Should I walk farther and not see deer so I can say I wasn't near a road??
<br>
<br>2. It is clear to me which side is loosing their temper on this thread and I commend Darryl/Boyd/and sealsniper for their patience with it.
<br>
<br>3. Nobody is saying new hunters should take long range pokes without the proper equipment and training! If they read a thread like this and it interests them maybe in their youthful enthusiasm they'll hook up with someone who knows what they are doing and will learn some real marksmanship skills.
<br>
<br>4. As far as anti's reading this and getting a bad idea of hunting....I'm convinced we(board members) are the elite...I normally believe in equality in most issues but when it comes to hunting and shooting we are not all created equal and most of the dimwits and yahoo's I encounter in gunstores and deer lockers scare the crap out of me and I often wish they weren't allowed access to sharp sticks let alone rifles!!
<br>
<br>5. We underestimate the potential of our equipment and ourselves sometimes! I watched badger's daughter shoot a 4-5" group at 250 yds with a Mod 7 while using a bipod for the first time!! This was with a 5 second countdown not even taking the amount of time normally associated with this type of shot.....
<br>
<br>6. The guys who are posting on this subject who have done it are willing to wait as long as it takes to ensure success they aren't driven by the need for a trophy as many other hunters out beating the brush are.
<br>
<br>7. I try to respect those who put the time and money into doing something right and cannot fault them for doing something differently!
<br>
<br>I also don't believe in irresponsible hunters taking hail Mary shots at game I understand fully Sonnie's position and others, but these guys are not the average bears!!
<br>
<br>8. The kind of slobs who don't follow up on shots at game or leave them to die slow and painful deaths are the problem not the methods some choose to use for hunting. Just like the anti's blame guns for violence it is the person/human that is the problem not the instrument.
<br>
<br>Mike


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