Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Curious & Relics License?

If you get a C&R license, are most places that sell or auction off rifles 50 years or older going to accept just a C&R license?
Most of the time they always ask for an FFL. I can't find any good savage rifles around my location anymore.

Is it worth getting a C&R license?

I've had good luck with getting folks to send rifles to me with a C&R, but I always keep a full FFL handy in case I run into somebody stubborn.

As I understand it, the person receiving it is the one taking responsibility for a firearm being C&R eligible. If it's not C&R eligible, then you have no reason to send a copy of your FFL to them. Basically, if you lie to the shipper and use your C&R to get a 40 year old rifle shipped to you, it's you that the ATF will come after if they find out - not the shipper.

Yep.

I find mine very useful for internet transactions and at gun shows.

It's a homerun. My only regret is that I didn't get it 15 years ago.

I'm only interested in older firearms. I have only one new rifle and it's a Winchester commemorative that I've never even fired (not much fun). Guess I'll fill out the forms and give it a try. I want to try and get another Savage at some type, either a Model 20 or another 99.

Totally worth it. It's $30 for three years. You'll make you fees back the first month. I applied for mine last winter and received it in eleven weeks.

Rod

One thing.. just be amazingly nitpicky about keeping your logbook correct. I hardly ever hear of ATF doing an inspection of a C&R holder, but it can happen. And you don't have to turn it in to the ATF when your C&R expires.

Couple of good links:

http://members.cox.net/cruffler/ffl.html

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html

I haven't really studied this but it is my perception that the C&R is intended to make it easier for Collectors to acquire pieces to add to their collections. If your goal is to buy and then sell firearms under the C&R, I think you could run into trouble down the road. Fact or fiction??

Fact. It says repeatedly through the regs in regards to the C&R:
"This license does not authorize the holder to engage in the business of dealing in any firearms".

How much selling constitutes dealing is a gray area that only the ATF inspectors will clarify.

Federal firearms violation is not worth it, if you do a lot of buying/selling of +50 year old guns then you might want to avoid a C&R.

Edit: What does dealing mean?
"The term �engaged in the business,� as applicable to a firearms dealer, is defined as a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms."

It's my sense that you can buy and sell without any problems as long as you can show that you are not using your C&R to acquire your primary source of income.

JMO

Guy on another forum was inspected earlier this year. Said it was very professional but very thorough. He passed without any problems. I can probably dig up the post and copy the pertinent details if anybody wants them.

Dale

The record keeping part of it is not difficult.

Basically serial #, manufacturer, model, action type and caliber of the gun, who you bought it from and/or sold it too, date and purchase or selling price.

Are there any storage requirements...must be stored as a group (booked C&R's), tagged, secure location, etc.?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=236448409

This is the book that I use that you can get right off GB. As far as I know you only have to be able to make this information available to ATF should they want to see it. I just keep mine in my filing cabinet.

You can see any 10 year old kid could keep the records.

In addition to this information I also keep a copy of either the FFL of the person I bought or sold the gun too or the driver's license if they do not have an FFL.

It's not required, but I figure it's good insurance.

I downloaded a template for the Bound Book and keep it in a MS Word document as well as hard copy. I keep all the associated paperwork for each gun in a plastic sleeve in the binder I use for the Bound Book. Minimal cost.

I was refering to storage of firearms.

I think you are concerned with co-mingling firearms obtained with a C&R with those you might have owned previous to having the C&R? If that's the question - I have no idea.

None that I am aware of.

Once you own the firearm it is not any different that any other firearm you own. ATF has given you a license to buy, sell and collect curio's and relics without having to go through an instant background check though a commercial FFL every time you make a transaction. They (ATF), have determined that through an extensive background check you are not a threat to own these guns and it is pointless to hassle you every time you want to make a transaction. They are actually making things easier for you. Since you are not going through a commercial FFL for these transactions all they are asking you to do is do the record keeping yourself.

If you collect firearms over 50 years old and you can get through their background check, it's a no brainer IMO. One note is that you also have to notify your local police authorities that you are in possession of the the C&R

My C&R guns aren't treated any different than any of my other guns. As long as you are not holding up liquor stores with your C&R's you can do basically whatever you want with them

I would much rather pay a ffl holder ,dealer the extra money then have "UNCLE" coming around visiting !!!! Don

Rick, there are no storage requirements, no need to tag "personal collection" versus "C&R" received rifles, no need to log firearms out of the logbook to yourself, and no need to log any firearms you owned prior to getting the C&R. As I understand it, you will need to log the purchase or sale of any C&R eligible firearm that is done while you have the C&R, even if you don't use the C&R to buy it.

And 99guy, I think if you buy and sell a lot of C&R eligible firearms you are in a gray area and you are subject to the whims of individual ATF agents and supervisors. The law doesn't state primary income. Only if you can show that you are doing it to enhance or upgrade your collection are you guaranteed to be safe.

Agreed that there is definitely some grey in the wording that could be open to individual interpretation. A C&R cannot "Engage in the business" of buying and selling curios and relics.

I think my personal logbook shows 10 purchases and 3 sales in about 2 years. Hardly a business in my case.