Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Longest Penetration achieved from an expanding bullet?

You are close but not there yet. The trend is there.
As for your comments on the rear end shots, the reality of limited hunting and even more limited opportunity to actually get a shot, means we will all be tempted beyond reasonable caution to take the shot that is offered rather than let the animal willingly escape.

Let me quote again a theme from Bob Hagel to always plan for the worst hunting conditions when everything can go wrong and not on the basis of everything going to plan.

That was one obvious reason behind his choice of a .340 Weatherby. Those that have used one will know what I mean.

That sort of thinking is the reason government programs cost so much! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

A trend that I am aware of is one that has been around for a long time. Small frontal diameter relative to weight. That can be either through minimal expanded dia. as in fail safes and X's (minus petals) or a fully peeled partition, lesser expansion due to lower impact velocity, or very high initial SD. Or.... some combination of all three. (as in 6.5x54 and 7x57 w/hvy bullets)

That trend of course is diametrically opposed to the low sectional density of the big bores. And of course the famed hard cast flat nose which don't count because they don't expand.

Hafta admit I'm cornfuzed about where you are going with this one.

JimF

That the folks who have run into that (perhaps rare) situation are very happy and relieved that they had a bullet that could do the job?

It doesn't change the cost of what we are doing in this exercise or trying to achieve. Our only variables in costs at most are a few grains of powder and a heavier or premium bullet weight bullet selection with combined totals in the extreme, still less than the first beer you will drimk in camp after the first day out.

This is not a cost issue, it is a performance issue and the results defy all the marketing hype that results from product development.

Having said that you will probably be disappointed at the simplicity of the results determined. We'll see.

The information from all the contributors is very helpful to new hunters or readers to the forum and interesting reading for the seasoned as well, so it is a good thread.

I thought of another one. This was a 100 gr Barnes bullet from my 25/06. The critter was a good mule deer elce I would not have shot. He was doing that stiff leg buck jumping thru the sage. I can not hit them when they do that but he was big so I tried my luck amd it was luck. The bullet entered at the base of his tail and we found it in his neck at the base of his head. The front petals were gone, but he folded in mid air and hit the deck end over end. My hands were cold and I tripped the trigger before I wanted. Like I said LUCK.
-Doc-

You're not in a mood to chuckle today, are you?
OK, I'll keep my responses in this thread serious.

Ok, I will play.

6'4" black bear took a 250 Nosler Partition from a 35 Whelen just under the chin and it exited the right ham. Distance was 70 yards.

One other face on shot on a 150 pound deer at 120 yards, bullet was found against the hide a few inches from the tail. This time it was a 225 Nosler Partition out of the same 35 Whelen.

Last year I shot lengthwise through a large doe with a 260gr Win Supreme Platinum Tip out of my Knight ML at 80yds. The bullet entered right on the point of the front shoulder and exited the opposite side ham. The deer still ran about 60yds, which is rather amazing--2MG

Regardless of bullet design, the the highest SD for a given caliber will give you the deepest penetration.
I perfer to use Nosler PT's for the bigger game like Elk and Bear and the BT's for deer hunting. I have never recovered a partition and only recovered 1 BT. 140 gr BT from a 280 Rem @ 3000 fps MV. Target was a large WT Deer (doe) at 150 yds. Shot entered in front of the left shoulder and was recovered under the hide between the last two ribs on the right side. The deer dropped in her tracks. I would guess that the bullet traveled through 22-24" of deer.

Regards,

JD338

I shot a 150 lb whitetail buck running toward me at 65 yds. The 130 gr X from my 7mm STW hit the buck between the eyes(not intentional) and exited behind the left ear, entered again in front of the left shoulder, traveled the entire length of the deer thru the body cavity and exited next to the anus. As far as I know, it's still going... Needless to say, it was a picture perfect bang-flop.

300 grain Swift A-frame from a .375H&H. I shot a bushbuck at 55 to 60 yards, facing me. The bullet entered just inboard of the left shoulder and exited just to the right of the anus. The bushbuck ran about 75 yards and fell dead. From the looks of the exit wound, the bullet never expanded at all.

JD338

I'm missing something. Regardless of bullet design the one with the best Sectional Density will penetrate the most??

So if we pick the highest SD bullet IE a given weight for caliber, lets say 200 grains in 30 cal. Then whether its a hollow point, plastic tip, premium, regular or fmj design they'll all penetrate the same and out penetrate a bullet with a lower SD.

Even in the case of a slightly higher SD but in a frangible bullet vs the next lower SD (IE 200 vs 180 for example) in something like an X an the 200 will out penetrate the X?

I'm sure I must have missed the point here. Its easy when we are all just typing away.

Jeff

Greater SD doesn't always mean greater penetration, especially with the better bullets.

I would count on a 150 X-bullet in an 06 to penetrate a heap more than a 165 grain Sierra Gameking.

Thought about one more.

30/06 with 180 Nosler Partitions, range 110 yards.

I hit a giraffe in the neck and it exited the neck. How's that for penetration <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I shot a lot of game with X bullets coming out of my 300 WBY and only ever recovered one bullet- a head on shot at a 200# mule deer where the bullet traveled 30" of neck and back- breaking the bottom bones off the spine before going through the spine on a diagonal about 10" and the continued to plow along the edge- breaking more bones. Of course death was instant and it ruined some good backstraps but none of the quarters. Broke one petal off- I think the bullet weighed 145 grains or thereabouts.

One of the few other bullets I recovered was a 200 grain Barnes soft point- hit a bull elk facing me between the front legs. Bullet went through the heart, and ended up in under the skin in the opposite hind quarter- Only about 60-70 grains were left. I can't imagine any bullets out penetrating X bullets of any version or similar weighted fail safes.

Jeff,

I was not trying to make a comparison of a core-lokt vs barnes x bullet. I was speaking more along the lines of bullet weights. A 200 gr X bullet will out penetrate a lighter X bullet, same with Nosler PT's etc. My thinking of the origional question of this thread was higher SD bullets may kill better than the lower SD bullets, by giving maximum penetration.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

JD338

Culling pigs in Calif with a .35 Whelen I have had plenty of body length exits but two stand out as memorable.

First was a 280gr Swift Aframe at 2300fps. I was crawling through a tunnel on my hands and knees when I ran into a boar at bayonet range. I tried to get out of the way and my shot actually angled up into the pig. The shot went between his teeth right under his nose and exited right over the top of his tail. It took out almost a foot of vertabra and needless to say it dropped in its tracks. The pig went 347lb gutted so Im estimating about 400-420 live weight. Bullet penetrated about 64" from teeth to tail. I have actually quit using the Swift due to a lack of expansion on most shots but have kept the last ones for wading into the brush following up wounded pigs.

Second was also the Whelen using a 250Gr Hornady at 2500fps. Another large pig (scale stopped at 300, guessing 350) was hit by friends 7mm Mag perfectly in the chest and choose to ignore it. As Mr. Piggy was going straight away I gave him one in the seat of the pants that destroyed the left femur and exited out the right side of his chest between the shoulder and neck, missing any additional bone. The hit on the leg bone left lead fragments weighing 60grs but the destruction through the chest was amazing. I imagine it wasnt a huge piece of bullet exiting but it gave everything it had. Penetration was about 53".

The 250 Hornady is my go to slug for culling and at one point I had almost 40 pigs without needing a second shot. On anything less than 300 pounds it exits most of the time on normal shots.

As expected based on construction, the two bullets behaved a bit differently but I was extremely pleased with the performance of both.

My 45LC is "in the mail" and I hope the local pigs will be sampling some hardcast LBTs in the near future.

JD338
Much more clear now. Your wording "regardless of design" had me royally confused. I'd assumed what you meant, but ya never know.
Thanks for the clarity.

Jeff

I have seen at least 4 feet of expanding-bullet penetration on several occasions:

1) Mule deer buck taken with facing shot at 30 yards in lodgepole timber with a 7x57, 140 Nosler Partition at about 2800. Bullet struck the dimple at the base of his neck, and was found under the hide of his butt.

2) Medium-size Nilgai bull was shot with a 140-grain Fail Safe from a .270 WSM factory load (about 3000 fps chronographed) at 200 yards, also a facing shot. Bullet struck top of shoulder and exited opposite ham.

3) Big but not huge Alaskan bull moose was taken with .338 Win. Mag and 230-grain Fail Safe, muzzle velocity about 2800, range about 100 yards. Also a facing shot, with bullet striking inside left shoulder and ending up under hide at front of pelvis. (Bull was standing with front feet higher than rear.)

4) Cape buffalo running, angling away at about 100 yards. 400-grain Nosler Partition from .416 Rigby landed about 15" behind rib cage, angled across chest and broke far shoulder. Found under hide of shoulder.

5) Bull gemsbok, quartering toward me at about 175 yards. Bullet was a 200-grain Nosler Ballistic Tip from a .338 Winchester Magnum, started at about 2950 fps. Bullet struck near shoulder and spine, and was found bulging the skin of opposite ham.

6) My wife shot a gemsbok on the same trip, facing her at about 200 yards. Bullet was 165-grain Fail Safe, started at about 2900 from a .30-06. Bullet entered low on neck, cutting carotid artery and bottom of spine, and ended up bulding the skin at the back of one ham.

Our friend Charlie Sisk recently shot a Texas wild pig estimated at 350 pounds (by Charlie, who used to slaughter pigs) in the ham with a 9.3 BS wildcat, using a 286 Nosler Partition at about 2400 fps, range about 80 yards. The bullet exited the pig's face, having broken a lot of bone of various sorts in between.

Have experienced great penetration with Trophy Bonded, and Barnes X of all types, but have never shot them into anything where either the animal or the angle resulted in 4+ feet of penetration.

MD