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Oldtown Guide is what I have. I can highly recommend it.



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I would buy used and see if you like it...Some people don't, and others like me have more canoes and kayaks than I know what to do with...


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We were in the same "boat" laugh with similar needs and I considered Old Town, Mad River and Bell. After trying them out on the water, I went with a Bell North Wind. It's suited our needs perfectly and we could be happier!!

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If the location is anywhere near SW Va, a VERY good option might be had fast and for a great buy.




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Wenona Adirondak, 16ft, slight rocker, Royalex construction.
I love mine, it's a compromise design, but it works very well for the uses you listed.


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Many moons ago I ran an newspaper ad each fall to buy "a canoe" and ended up with a huge stack of them, cheap. Each spring I sold the canoes for about what I had in them... But I also sold all the paddles, life jackets, and extras that people had "thrown in". Made for quite a bit of pocket change. Some canoes came cheap enough to sell at a big profit, too.

Spent a ton of time n canoes for a long time and always came back to the biggest possible freighter for most running around and fishing use. I have been wet...

Moving water is a whole other beast and there is nothing good about a keeled canoe in fast water. The OP only mentioned tiny stuff, so it makes no real difference, but it can be a serious problem in a heartbeat.


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Originally Posted by BikerRN
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Niether of us has canoe expirience, but that will change shortly. I've been looking at two different canoes and need help making up my mind. Do I get the Mad River Adventure 14 or the Old Town Guide 147? Please tell me why you selected what you choose. Thanks in advance for your help...


I'm always shopping the want ads for used canoes near me. Those two models seem to pop up more often than most. it's particularly interesting when you note that the Mad River Adventure models haven't been around very long. That would seem to indicate that a lot of folks don't fall in love with these models for long.

What others have said about the lack of performance in 14' tandem canoes is correct. Of the various 14' models I'm aware of, those two aren't on the list of what I would even consider. Just one drawback they both have is the molded seats that require you to face in one direction. It is a common and useful practice to solo a tandem canoe from the bow seat, facing the stern, so your weight is closer to the center of the boat - which isn't comfortable to do on those molded seats. Having said that - you can also solo one of these with molded seats by sitting in the stern seat and placing sufficient ballast (I have used a water-filled dry-bag) in the opposite end to trim the boat. Between the two, I would get the Old Town because it will be the more versatile and the easier of the two to recover from being swamped.

If you must stick to that price-point, I would either shop used or look seriously at the Old Town Discovery series - specifically the 169. You may be able to find a used Old Town Penobscot, which is a good all-around 16-footer, with good performance - and in that price range, should be in very good condition. Or - you could save a ton of money while you decide if you even like canoeing, by finding a used Grumman or Alumacraft. Should have no trouble finding a good one in the $300 or under range.

I have been through the whole transition from short/wide and flat-bottom to long/narrow and rounded or vee bottom canoes thing. If you want to skip past the preliminaries, just get a higher-performance canoe (such as the Penobscot - or the Wenonah Adirondak that someone else mentioned) and learn how to use it properly while getting used to the "lively" feel of the hull on the water. Your overall enjoyment will be much better.

Find a paddling instructor if you have one available in your area - otherwise, get one of the good paddling instruction books, such as "Paddle Your Own Canoe" (one of the best). There is a lot more to making a canoe go where you want it to than paddling on one side or the other. In fact - you may want to go to the books first, to help understand the mechanics and dynamics of the different boats. There is a good explanation of the difference in hull design here.

If you settle on either the Guide or the Adventure just to get on the water, you will still benefit from instruction. Just don't write off canoeing if you don't enjoy that particular boat. You may find that after you bore of the performance of the "beginner" boat, that something longer, narrower, and rounder is easier and more fun to paddle - and less likely to spill you on rough water.

At any rate - either of those two you are now looking at will be better than a Coleman or a Pelican - or any of the similar boats on the market.

Last edited by FreeMe; 06/29/11.

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Originally Posted by northern_dave
Originally Posted by JRaw
If you get a 16', I recommend a symmetrical boat with the bow seat designed so you can reverse the boat and paddle solo from the bow seat, with the boat backwards.


But then you can't do sweet canoe wheelies.

lol!

[Linked Image]

grin


The wheelie isn't just a joke, it's a proven advanced technique. Not only does it let you perform a "spin move" at high speed, it also prevents the bow from diving in class 2 wavetrains.

Nice rig, I rented one up in BWCA a few years ago.

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Originally Posted by JRaw
Originally Posted by northern_dave
Originally Posted by JRaw
If you get a 16', I recommend a symmetrical boat with the bow seat designed so you can reverse the boat and paddle solo from the bow seat, with the boat backwards.


But then you can't do sweet canoe wheelies.

lol!

[Linked Image]

grin


The wheelie isn't just a joke, it's a proven advanced technique. Not only does it let you perform a "spin move" at high speed, it also prevents the bow from diving in class 2 wavetrains....


Um...okay....It also puts you in the most unstable position possible - and for no good reason. There are better ways to spin the boat and to negotiate a wave train.

Should there have been a joke smiley with that?


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Originally Posted by m_stevenson
Wenona Adirondak, 16ft, slight rocker, Royalex construction.
I love mine, it's a compromise design, but it works very well for the uses you listed.


I have the same canoe, and I don't think it is a compromise at all, unless you mean in comparison to 17-19ft BWCA tripping canoes, and they don't turn like the Adirondack.

The Old Town Penobscot is a very similar canoe, and REI is running a special on those currently. The Mad River 16 ft Royalex Explorer is a similar hull. 16 ft is the most versatile length, absolutely no shorter for a tandem canoe. A 14 ft canoe is a solo craft.

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Originally Posted by northern_dave
Originally Posted by JRaw
If you get a 16', I recommend a symmetrical boat with the bow seat designed so you can reverse the boat and paddle solo from the bow seat, with the boat backwards.


But then you can't do sweet canoe wheelies.

lol!

[Linked Image]

grin


It would be quite humorous to watch you try that on a windy lake. You wouldn't be laughing though.

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No, it puts a solo canoeist in the best possible position to handle a tandem canoe.

Has worked for me for over 50 years.



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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
No, it puts a solo canoeist in the best possible position to handle a tandem canoe.

Has worked for me for over 50 years.



Good for ya. It only proves you're a slow learner.


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I agree with the look on craigslist and papers for used ones. Turnover on canoes and kayaks is pretty high and you can get a nearly new one at a large discout that's rarely been in the water.

I've got about a 30 year old Gruman aluminum that I think I paid about $250 for new. Don't use it much anymore after I got a kayak.


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Soloing a tandem canoe.

Here's one way...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2M9jwKtMt0

Note that directional control is not dependent on wind or lack thereof - or any wild flailing with the paddle. You need a good canoe for this to work well. Coleman and Pelican barges need not apply.

My preferred method...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMxURxbzBWo

Note the deep water technique at about 3.07.

You can solo paddle from the stern seat pretty well if you have enough gear ahead of you to trim the boat level - but you'll need a lot of room to turn the boat. If you're on any sizable rapids, it's not a good position to perform a brace from or for any quick maneuvers. If you're on a calm lake though, no problem.


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When it comes to soloing in a tandem canoe, this guy knows his stuff. Set aside about 90 minutes, grab a beer, and enjoy...

http://www.nfb.ca/film/waterwalker/


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Originally Posted by FreeMe
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
No, it puts a solo canoeist in the best possible position to handle a tandem canoe.

Has worked for me for over 50 years.



Good for ya. It only proves you're a slow learner.





Bull$hit. Tell me how to paddle solo in the middle of a 36-38 inch wide tandem �barge�?????

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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
Originally Posted by FreeMe
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
No, it puts a solo canoeist in the best possible position to handle a tandem canoe.

Has worked for me for over 50 years.



Good for ya. It only proves you're a slow learner.





Bull$hit. Tell me how to paddle solo in the middle of a 36-38 inch wide tandem �barge�?????


Not from the middle - from just behind the middle. Watch the Bill Mason video I linked in my last post, then check out his instructional videos at the Film Canada site.

The "slow learner" remark was a cheap-shot, and I apologize. Can't expect you to know it if you've only been shown one way. That is why I suggested lessons or study to the OP, and why I posted the other video links.

Check out those youtube videos I linked. The guy soloing the Cronje is showing an extreme example, in that the canoe is unloaded and riding high. With practice, it is easy - but it's even easier with about 60lbs or more gear ahead of you in the boat, holding it down closer to level. The thing is, the boat just handles so much better with you and your gear more centered in the boat. It turns better and it rides over waves easier. With the right paddle, you can get closer to both ends of the boat for better control while positioned to one side and just behind the yoke. You just have to learn the proper strokes to make it go the way you want to.

Last edited by FreeMe; 06/29/11. Reason: detail

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Been there, done all that�don�t think I have missed much of the Mason stuff.


Leo of the Land of Dyr

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“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
Been there, done all that�don�t think I have missed much of the Mason stuff.


So - you're saying he did it all with trick photography then? He didn't negotiate those rapids from a station just behind the yoke? Why didn't he position himself on the stern seat? Ignorance?

The stern seat is in the narrowest part of the boat there is room to sit. If you don't balance the boat with some weight in the other end, you give up a lot of the boats inherent stability. If you do counterbalance for trim, all you mass is near the ends - which prevents the boat from responsive turning and from riding dry and easy over large waves. And it puts you in a position of poor leverage for a brace (you know that term?). You can get away with all that (with weight in the opposite end) if you only need to go straight or make wide turns - and yes, it is easier to make the boat go straight. But if you're doing it with the bow riding high and dry as in that first photo - you are giving up speed, stability, and directional control....for no good reason other than a lack of knowledge and/or practice.


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