24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 9 10
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172
John,

What are the chances that a marginally placed shot hitting a rib bone would deflect more with the 243 than the 6.5X55 and thereby causing a real problem?

Do better bullets nowadays reduce this possibility?


Hunt with Class and Classics

Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray

Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”







BP-B2

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
I wouldn't hesitate on a rib shot with a good bullet from a .243. I've seen the 100-grain Nosler Partition go through both shoulders and the spine of a big whitetail--and exit. That's a lot more bone than a moose rib.

That said, the 6.5x55 is definitely a moose cartridge.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172
Thanks wink

My big game experience with a 243 dates back to 1959-1962, and I had less than stellar results, probably due to vastly inferior bullets. I haven't owned a 243 since 1963 as a result.

My grandson is only a few years away from needing a rifle. I'll probably find him a 257 Roberts, mostly because I am a stubborn reactionary. blush blush


Hunt with Class and Classics

Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray

Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”







Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,676
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,676
load your 6.5x55 with a Nosler 140 gr PT and kill moose. That load is mild manered and recoil shouldn't be a problem.

JD338

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,874
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,874
I find it interesting the biggest naysayers are from Alabama and California. Now I could be wrong and they could have just moved from a heavily moose populated state or are well off and have shot multiple moose on many guided hunts. Even so most trophy hunters aren't going to use something like a 243 so they wouldn't know how it would work in the first place. I would listen to the guys (Alaska, Canada, Sweden) that have a chance to shoot moose yearly and for the meat not just the horns.

I personally only know of one lady who used a 243 and 100 grain partition to shoot her moose. It happened to be the same moose she had shot in archery season but the arrow didn't penetrate the shoulder blade. The partition did though.

I think like has been stated the 6.5 would be a better choice and is a classic moose slayer without much more recoil. Or get some managed recoil loads from remington (I think) if you don't handload for the '06 and if you really don't feel comfortable with either the 243 or 6.5. That said I think with some heavy premium bullets in the 243 and a good shot through the lungs you will have your work cut out for you packing.

IC B2

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 923
1
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
1
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 923
To answer your question, my first choice would be the 80 gr. Barnes TTSX.

One point I haven't seen mentioned would be fit. Unless you are one of the "little people" the LOP on your 30-06 would or should eliminate it from consideration.

My Dad was a big man and the LOP on his .308 was about 14.5". When I was fourteen I borrowed his rifle but never shot it well, not because of recoil but because it was about 1.5" too long for me.

Likely in moose season he will be wearing more than a tee shirt and LOP would be among my greatest concerns. If the 6.5 is too long for him and you are unwilling to bob the stock then I would be choosing a good bullet for the .243.

Boy or man, no one shoots well a rifle that duzzint fit.

1flier


Black Olives Matter!!
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 279
T
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
T
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 279
John's experience with the .243 as his "remedy" gun for early-onset flinchitis mirrors mine, but my medicine to get better was a '99 .250 Savage.

Since Dad didn't handload when I was a little guy, he'd just buy shells for the punishing curved steel plate .30-30 wherever he found them: second-hand stores, "bargain bins" at the gun shop, etc. I don't remember ever seeing a new box of shells. Problem was, I don't remember ever seeing any 150g bullets, either. Always the 170's. More punishment.

The gun was old enough that along with the curved steel buttplate and 170 grain shells, it had a comb that was sort of flattened on top ('94 guys will know what I am talking about) with rather sharp corners precisely where I'd put my unfleshy cheekbone. More punishment.

I would so look forward to "sighting in day" and shoot that gun till my shoulder literally turned black, and I fought the tears so Dad wouldn't see. He must have known something, for on a couple of occasions, he'd fold up a buckskin glove off the dashboard of the '49 Chevy, and stuff it under my shirt on my shoulder (an ersatz "Past Pad" of the day for the dirt-poor).

Dad "helped" me buy a '99 .250 when I was 15. That gun taught me that highpowered rifles can actually shoot as precisely as my Winchester 67 .22, that they don't have to kick, and that everything I shot at died very quickly, even at the completely foolish and abhorrent ranges that 15 year olds try. Gradually, it reduced dramatically my flinching (but never completely: flinching is like malaria--you have recurring episodes and never have control of when they might erupt).

And, being 15, I fell helplessly, hopelessly, and endlessly in love with the .250 Savage.

You never forget the first one that treated you very nice.


Last edited by Tahnka; 07/10/11.

"I have always disliked the words 'authority' and 'expert' when applied to those who write about guns, shooting,and hunting. I have never set myself up as either."
Jack O'Connor
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,992
3
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
3
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,992
Originally Posted by Skatchewan
My son has a very good chance of getting drawn for moose this year. He is 14, has 3 deer under his belt, all with his ,243.
He has also shot my 6.5x55, but not my 30.06

If he were to get drawn, and decided to use his .243, which premium bullet would you recommend?


85 gr. Barnes TSX
80 gr Barnes TTSX
90 gr Nosler AB
90 gr Swift SCII

Not necessarily in that order, but whichever shot the best out of his rifle. Being that the vitals of a good moose are about the size of 1/2 sheet of ply wood (joking), I'd not get to dogmatic over micro sizing the groups though and would start with the selection from Barnes first.

I'd also get a hold of some large pieces of scrap cardboard and make a full size "Cardboard Moose" and a can of flat black spray paint. He could use that for a target which would force him to "Pick-A-Spot" and at different shot angles.
..................................

You didn't ask, but I too vote for the 6.5x55 Swed using the bullet pictured on page #2 of this thread.

I'd load light to begin with and have him shoot "Fun" targets (water balloons, water jugs, the cardboard moose, etc) away from the bench. (use lightweight inexpensive bullets to start with)

When he was ready, you could load it a "little" hotter and continue at "his" pace. Don't rush it, even a good starting load with that aforementioned bullet will serve him well. I'm sure that if you are disciplined and don't rush it he will eventually be shooting top loads.

Always encourage his shooting ability and shot placement on the targets while giving little attention to the fact that he is shooting a "bigger" gun (a little psychological mind game to keep him focused on the target and NOT the recoil).


"I'd rather have an Army of Asses led by a Lion, than an Army of Lions led by an Ass." (George Washington)
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
You could use any of those three choices with your son and not be disappointed I believe. The tack I would take is to load the lighter cartridges right up where they are intended to run, or load the '06 with something a bit light (150 grains) and back off a bit to middle range loads with TSX, GMX, or Etip bullets. If your son is a bit on the light side, I think I'd let the rifle help decide which one matches his needs most - perhaps it doesn't matter- and then let him shoot plenty of practice with lighter loadings. A lot of younger and/or less experienced shooters suffer from recoil noise as much as the impulse effect.

About this time last year I was working on preparing my nine-year-old for potentially hunting moose. I had Ruger #1-B which I hoped would work and had some GMX loads ready. However, even with a shortened buttstock, that rifle was a bit too much for him to handle well - except on the bench. So I decided to let him try a Ruger #1-A in 270. We swapped the shortened butt over and gt him shooting 100 grainers until he was comfortable. I began to throw 140s loaded light next. I loaded a few A-Frames a bit heavier for hunting, made sure the rifle shot where it had at "moose distance" with the heavier loads, and we went hunting. It worked for us when he bagged a nice bull two weeks after his ten year birthday.


Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 85,964
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 85,964
Originally Posted by Skatchewan
Not a trick at all Ed. He is a bit small for his age, and a bit recoil shy, hence why I haven't pushed the 30.06 on him.
I'll be having him shoot it this summer, but he may find it a bit much. Hence the question.


Then don't put the boy behind it now. He'll let you know when he's ready. Just have him put one of the good bullets suggested above, in the right place.


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
IC B3

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 20,494
T
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
T
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 20,494
My wife shot her first moose with a 243 in a NEF single shot with a 90 grain Barnes X bullet and H414 powder. It didn't drop at the shot, and often they don't.

[Linked Image]

She wanted more gun for her next one, and she stole my 30-06 and we had the stock shortened to fit her.

[Linked Image]

An uncle in BC has a couple daughters, a wife and some daughters in law, and they all use the 243 for moose, and very effectively, BUT,

. . . . . . if your son shoots the Swede well, that is a much better option than the 243. Lots of moose get killed with the 6.5 X 55 around these parts. I might go with a 140 grainer.


"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)

Brother Keith

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,102
H
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
H
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,102
Out of all the posts only two people have shot moose with a
243, they seemed to do OK.

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Let me help you a bit with your assumption...

Originally Posted by hawkins
Out of all the posts only two people have admitted they shot moose with a
243, they seemed to do OK.


The 223 has also worked quite well at times, but that doesn't mean it's something I'd encourage. It's really not much fun to try to sort out the brown forms for a second shot when you've just shot one out of several, and they decide to move out. Perhaps it's just when and where we hunt, but we often see them in pairs, or better, nearly as often as alone. Moose can be stout obstacles for even the best bullets and better suited calibers. Focus on making a well-prepared shooter, and you won't be disappointed.


Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,794
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,794
Originally Posted by croldfort
I always get into trouble on the .243/big game posts. Anywhere from 6 to 20 folks for lunch and dinner. It's a bummer to be sitting after dark and having munchies and cold drinks, when someone comes in with a tracking job. Stuff happens and folks bite the bullet and volunteer. But this happens more with the .24 calibers, (smallest legal), than all the other cartridges used.



Let me be the first laugh You are blaming the cartridge for poor shooting and poor bullet selection. I think it would be wise to educate your fellow room mates as too what bullets they should be shooting in their .243's and to actually PRACTICE shooting their .243's.

I can't even count how many deer my family has killed with the .243. NOTHING gets away, no tracking, dead right there. All we have shot are 100 grain Hornady flat base spire points. Some of the hits weren't perfect, but the deer (many large bucks) were dead in their tracks.

I would be willing to bet that your "gang" aren't even sighting in their rifles with their hunting ammo or they are hunting with varmint bullets. Put the .243 in the hands of ANYONE that can shoot worth two short hoots and even the biggest animals die very quickly. The cartridge isn't the problem in your camp wink Flinch


Flinch Outdoor Gear broadhead extractor. The best device for pulling your head out.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
D
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
D
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Here's some perspective: an 85TSX from a 243 will outpenetrate a 180Corelokt from a 30-06.

Load some Barnes in the 243 and go hunting.

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,342
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,342
243 for deer is just fine. 243 for moose is just a poor idea. There are so many better choices, they would be hard to count.... and that is only the lower recoil rounds.
Comparing an 243cal 85gr TSX against a 30 cal 180gr CL, in the hand of a kid without great deal of experience, etc., simply does not hold water in large game hunting.


Imagine your grave on a windy winter night. You've been dead for 70 years.
It's been 50 since a visitor last paused at your tombstone.....
Now explain why you're in a pissy mood today.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,992
3
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
3
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,992
So far, there has been lots of proof that the premium bullets in the 243 kill Moose just fine, and NO proof that they don't.

Many opinions here on the subject of "cartridges," and some good suggestions have been offered.

However, I believe that the OP's question was more about "Bullet" choice (not cartridge suggestions). "If he were drawn, and decided to use his 243, which premium bullet would you recommend..?"

I have to ask "Why" it (concerning this idea that the kid shooting an already familiar rifle, that he has confidence in, as well as having already taken 3 deer with) doesn't hold water when the bullet he could use will out penetrate the "bigger" caliber's bullet.?

I'd also dare say that the 14 year old knows something about shot placement, which would make the 243 with the 85 TSX/80 TTSX stone cold deadly when shoved into the vitals of a Moose. And a lot easier to do when he's not afraid of the gun and flinching with fear when the hammer falls. It's already been stated, he is recoil sensitive.

There is a pic of a very DEAD moose at the top of page #6 that was killed with a 90 grain X bullet. As well as testimony as many others who have used and still use the 243 with good bullets to successfully take Moose.

I've seen more than a couple dead Moose, seen others kill them, and killed a few myself. No, I don't use a 243, but if that was my level of comfort, I dang sure would.

Again. Lots of proof here that the 243 works with a quality bullet, and not any proof that it doesn't.


"I'd rather have an Army of Asses led by a Lion, than an Army of Lions led by an Ass." (George Washington)
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Originally Posted by fishdog52

Comparing an 243cal 85gr TSX against a 30 cal 180gr CL, in the hand of a kid without great deal of experience, etc., simply does not hold water in large game hunting.


Then you havent done very many post mortems on the heels of an 85 Gr .TSX....


"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,579
S
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
S
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,579
What gets me is how all the experience of keyboard hunting experts say you can't get a lot of things down with smaller calibers...

and then you have guys who live in places like Montana, or Rural BC, Alaska, Wyoming etc...who spend a lot of time hunting and their experiences seem to contradict, what the keyboard hunting experts present...

who'd of figured that?


"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC

“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Its kinda like Ive discussed some some visitors from back east...its not that we are on the High Horse or anything, we have half a dozen easily huntable species of Big Game Here, less people doing it and just plain more opportunities for trigger time. There are good seasons when we are fortunate enough to get in more experience that many guys back east get in a decade.
If you are a rifle loony, and living here, you try to maximize that potential... grin


"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
Page 3 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 9 10

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
613 members (2003and2013, 007FJ, 160user, 10gaugeman, 17CalFan, 1Longbow, 60 invisible), 2,450 guests, and 1,130 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,597
Posts18,398,217
Members73,815
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.194s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9119 MB (Peak: 1.0882 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 12:56:46 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS