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#5417357 - 07/13/11 Re: Ok, .243 on Grizzlies, Ek, Moose and Elephants [Re: smithrjd]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 40590
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
smithrjd,

I guess I'll have to be more specific about the 150-pound/leopard deal.

JKH found standard (not "premium") .243 bullets, like those in Winchester's average factory ammo, to work perfectly on leopards, because they expanded violently and did a lot of interior damage. This knocked the snot out of 150-pound animals. I believe he even really liked the 80-grain "varmint load," though will check on that.

I have found the .243 to be capable on animals much bigger than 150 pounds with bullets such as the 100-grain Nosler Partition.
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#5417394 - 07/13/11 Re: Ok, .243 on Grizzlies, Ek, Moose and Elephants [Re: Mule Deer]
jagd Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 347
Loc: WA/Germany/Afghanistan
I've read a few stories of .243's taking out moose no problem.

you know what caliber has killed more elephant than any other?

7x57.

so what to say a .243 can't kill anything on this continent without issue.
_________________________
Loving life in the Great North West one day at a time.

sounds like its time for a new gun.

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#5417491 - 07/13/11 Re: Ok, .243 on moose [Re: Skatchewan]
Ranch13 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 4011
Loc: wyoming
Originally Posted By: Skatchewan
My son has a very good chance of getting drawn for moose this year. He is 14, has 3 deer under his belt, all with his ,243.
He has also shot my 6.5x55, but not my 30.06

If he were to get drawn, and decided to use his .243, which premium bullet would you recommend?


I have no experience with moose other than our scraggly little shira's. But of the 3 of those I've seen shot and killed with a 243, one went down in a heap after being hit with hornday 100 gr,one with a 95 gr partition, and one was a Winchester 100 gr factory load.
So maybe try several of the "premium" bullets to see which shoots the best, and if none of them out shoot the the plane ol 100 gr cup and cores then go with the cup and core.
_________________________
the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
www.historicshooting.com

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#5417855 - 07/13/11 Re: Ok, .243 on moose [Re: Ranch13]
MissouriEd Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 5490
Loc: Between somewhere and nowhere
Absolutely amazing how many are against shooting a moose with a 100 Gr bullet out of a 243 win going 2850 fps but would think nothin of shooting one with a 40 lb bow and 100gr broad head going 300 fps.


Edited by AlabamaEd (07/13/11)
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#5417871 - 07/13/11 Re: Ok, .243 on moose [Re: MissouriEd]
Verwoest_P_A Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 496
Originally Posted By: AlabamaEd
Absolutely amazing how many are against shooting a moose with a 100 Gr bullet out of a 243 win going 2850 fps but would think nothin of shooting one with a 40 lb bow and 100gr broad head going 300 fps.


I make this same comparison all the time. It's not so much about what's reality, but what peoples preceptions are of what is acceptable or "normal".

You could make the same comparison to a low velocity black powder rifle, or those who choose to spear or knife their game where legal.

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#5418433 - 07/13/11 Re: Ok, .243 on moose [Re: Verwoest_P_A]
the_shootist Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 19543
Loc: NW Ontario, Canada
I have never said it can't be done . . . . . there's just better options IMHO, and the Original Poster has one at least available to his son -- 6.5X55 Swede.

And YOU knife the moose. I live with them, and only a retard would hunt them with a knife. blush
_________________________
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)

Brother Keith


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#5418464 - 07/13/11 Re: Ok, .243 - gnat's butt, through mastadon [Re: the_shootist]
Mako25 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 16718
Loc: TX
>grin<

This 'n' has it all.

If that Swede lacks a little, the .260 Rem would more than suffice (or is it the other way 'round) *magic bullets for either of 'em though*

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#5418689 - 07/13/11 Re: Ok, .243 - gnat's butt, through mastadon [Re: Mako25]
Jeff_O Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 28049
Loc: Wetter'n Oregon
Mako... you're laffin'! You are rollin'! You've got tears in your eyes it's so phucking phunny! We owe you a keyboard! It's a classic!
_________________________
Eep, opp, ork, ah ah!...... what does it MEAN?!

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#5419387 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 - gnat's butt, through mastadon [Re: Jeff_O]
Mako25 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 16718
Loc: TX
*sigh*

All good things come to an end.
'Twas one for all-times though.

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#5419652 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 on moose [Re: MissouriEd]
jagd Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 347
Loc: WA/Germany/Afghanistan
Originally Posted By: AlabamaEd
Absolutely amazing how many are against shooting a moose with a 100 Gr bullet out of a 243 win going 2850 fps but would think nothin of shooting one with a 40 lb bow and 100gr broad head going 300 fps.


you can get 300fps with a 40lb Bow?? holy cow. lol 39 inch draw or something lol.
_________________________
Loving life in the Great North West one day at a time.

sounds like its time for a new gun.

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#5420268 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 on moose [Re: jagd]
MissouriEd Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 5490
Loc: Between somewhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: jagd
Originally Posted By: AlabamaEd
Absolutely amazing how many are against shooting a moose with a 100 Gr bullet out of a 243 win going 2850 fps but would think nothin of shooting one with a 40 lb bow and 100gr broad head going 300 fps.


you can get 300fps with a 40lb Bow?? holy cow. lol 39 inch draw or something lol.




I'm not a bow hunter, just guessing for illustration purposes. and yes I do have a 39" draw!!
_________________________
Beware of thieves, scammers and dishonest members on the "Fire" classifieds. Ya there is a thief here too. Whatever!!

They're all around the CampFire and everywhere.

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#5420319 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 on moose [Re: MissouriEd]
Huntz Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 7306
Loc: N.E.Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: AlabamaEd
Originally Posted By: jagd
Originally Posted By: AlabamaEd
Absolutely amazing how many are against shooting a moose with a 100 Gr bullet out of a 243 win going 2850 fps but would think nothin of shooting one with a 40 lb bow and 100gr broad head going 300 fps.


you can get 300fps with a 40lb Bow?? holy cow. lol 39 inch draw or something lol.




I'm not a bow hunter, just guessing for illustration purposes. and yes I do have a 39" draw!!


You must have a 90" arm span crazy


Edited by Huntz (07/14/11)
_________________________


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#5420460 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 on Grizzlies, Ek, Moose and Elephants [Re: Mule Deer]
moosemike Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/10/10
Posts: 4666
Loc: Catawba county NC
Originally Posted By: Mule Deer
smithrjd,

I guess I'll have to be more specific about the 150-pound/leopard deal.

JKH found standard (not "premium") .243 bullets, like those in Winchester's average factory ammo, to work perfectly on leopards, because they expanded violently and did a lot of interior damage. This knocked the snot out of 150-pound animals. I believe he even really liked the 80-grain "varmint load," though will check on that.

I have found the .243 to be capable on animals much bigger than 150 pounds with bullets such as the 100-grain Nosler Partition.



I thought it was laways illegal to kill Leopard with small bores?


Edited by moosemike (07/14/11)
_________________________
A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph, or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him. -Aldo Leopold

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#5420464 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 on Grizzlies, Ek, Moose and Elephants [Re: jagd]
moosemike Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/10/10
Posts: 4666
Loc: Catawba county NC
Originally Posted By: jagd
I've read a few stories of .243's taking out moose no problem.

you know what caliber has killed more elephant than any other?

7x57.

so what to say a .243 can't kill anything on this continent without issue.


I highly doubt the 7X57 has killed more Elephant than any other. Yes I know Bell used one (among others) but his 2,000 some Elephants are small potatoes compared to all the Elephants ever shot.
_________________________
A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph, or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him. -Aldo Leopold

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#5420469 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 on moose [Re: Skatchewan]
hatari Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 12042
Loc: Atlanta
Originally Posted By: Skatchewan
I hear ya......my thoughts as well. But if he shoots the 30.06, and it scares the crap outta him, need a backup plan.
He does shoot the 6.5x55 well, so that is another better otion as well. Lord knows the .303 will do it, has done it. I have one of those as an option as well.


The Swede with 140 Barnes TSX!
_________________________
“All of it began the first time some of you who are old enough to know better, let young people think that they have the right to choose the laws they would obey as long as they were doing it in the name of social protest” R. Reagan

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#5420553 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 on Grizzlies, Ek, Moose and Elephants [Re: moosemike]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 40590
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
moosemike,

The .243 is illegal in some African countries for leopard, but not in others. A lot of JKH's hunting was done before there were "caliber" laws in many of the several countries he hunted.

Plus, some PH's are quite willing to allow clients to use a smaller-bore rifle IF the client has proven to be a good shot, or if the client has proven not to shoot well with larger rifles. I known of a woman who killed both Cape buffalo and white rhino with a 7x57 in the 1990's, in a country where the 7x57 was illegal for such animals. But she couldn't handle a .375, the smallest legal caliber. The PH let her use the 7x57, and both animals died due to 7mm injection.
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#5420562 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 on Grizzlies, Ek, Moose and Elephants [Re: Mule Deer]
moosemike Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/10/10
Posts: 4666
Loc: Catawba county NC
Thanks for the clarification. I had thought that the caliber restrictions were at least as old as the .243 Win but apparently they aren't.
_________________________
A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph, or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him. -Aldo Leopold

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#5420586 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 on Grizzlies, Ek, Moose and Elephants [Re: moosemike]
moosemike Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/10/10
Posts: 4666
Loc: Catawba county NC
I wanted to read more about JKH. I found this LINK Apparently he just died.
_________________________
A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph, or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him. -Aldo Leopold

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#5420851 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 on Grizzlies, Ek, Moose and Elephants [Re: moosemike]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 40590
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
If you want to read more about JKH, the best source is his own book, HUNTING THE DANGEROUS GAME OF AFRICA (Sycamore Island Books, 1998). It is pricey, though worth it. I got mine new for the list price of $95, but there weren't many printed and used copies are going for $200 or more.

It's a large-format book with almost 500 pages, essentially a history of JKH's hunting life in Africa, both before he became a PH and afterward. Included are hunts with Jack O'Connor, John Wootters and other notables. It's very well-written, with lots of interesting photos. (Though one blithering idiot who reviewed it on-line panned the book, apparently because JKH didn't guide past 1980 and all the information in the book was thus "old.")
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#5420921 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 on Grizzlies, Ek, Moose and Elephants [Re: Mule Deer]
Klikitarik Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 15939
Loc: Alaska - N63º, W162º
Was hoping to offer some help from a source I often go to, but the single US source says $475 frown There is one in UK for just over $200.
_________________________
I love vegans. They taste good. Bear meat ain't bad either!

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#5420984 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 on Grizzlies, Ek, Moose and Elephants [Re: Klikitarik]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 40590
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Yeah, the longer I've had my copy, the luckier I feel!
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#5421096 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 on moose [Re: Huntz]
MissouriEd Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 5490
Loc: Between somewhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Huntz
Originally Posted By: AlabamaEd
Originally Posted By: jagd
Originally Posted By: AlabamaEd
Absolutely amazing how many are against shooting a moose with a 100 Gr bullet out of a 243 win going 2850 fps but would think nothin of shooting one with a 40 lb bow and 100gr broad head going 300 fps.


you can get 300fps with a 40lb Bow?? holy cow. lol 39 inch draw or something lol.




I'm not a bow hunter, just guessing for illustration purposes. and yes I do have a 39" draw!!


You must have a 90" arm span crazy


You need to get your mind in the right place.
_________________________
Beware of thieves, scammers and dishonest members on the "Fire" classifieds. Ya there is a thief here too. Whatever!!

They're all around the CampFire and everywhere.

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#5421128 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 on moose [Re: Skatchewan]
ringworm Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 12665
Loc: Southern States
OK. so say a moose is 1K pounds.
and the bullet is a .243 of the 100 grain variety (0.01428 pounds) thats a ratio of bullet weight to animal weight .00001428/1
a 30-06 at 180 grains is .0000257/1.
Really?
REALLY?
The moose is gonna tell the difference?
Hit 'em proper and take him home.
_________________________
"If you go off into a far, far forest and get very quiet, you’ll come to understand that you’re connected with everything.”

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#5421498 - 07/14/11 Re: Ok, .243 on moose [Re: hatari]
the_shootist Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 19543
Loc: NW Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: hatari
Originally Posted By: Skatchewan
I hear ya......my thoughts as well. But if he shoots the 30.06, and it scares the crap outta him, need a backup plan.
He does shoot the 6.5x55 well, so that is another better otion as well. Lord knows the .303 will do it, has done it. I have one of those as an option as well.


The Swede with 140 Barnes TSX!


Quit trying to state the obvious my friend. Better option. wink
_________________________
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)

Brother Keith


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