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#5441046 - 07/21/11 Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info
Fushigi_Ojisan Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/23/05
Posts: 541
Loc: Where the B&O and Pennsylvania...
I have been looking on-and-off for a Savage 1914 to round out a collection of early 20th-century tubular magazine .22s having just missed one for sale by Griffin & Howe (yes, *that* Griffin & Howe) by mere hours. So by sheer dumb luck I found one for sale on Gunbroker, with a nice tang sight, at a price I could afford.

(auction photos)





Don't want to spam, the rest of the images are here

It does have some freckling on the barrel, some honest wear, and the all-too-typical cracks at the wrist. However, GeneB declared it to be a very good buy and that he had considered bidding on it himself--praise from Caesar!

When I got it, I function-tested it with #6 drywall *anchors* [correction] and was surprised they fed through with no problems (you are only supposed to use them as snap caps BTW). The metal issues are manageable and pretty soon I hope to have the buttstock off for repairs. In the meantime, I ordered a factory letter.

Per John Callahan, this rifle (SN 245xx) was accepted on March 31st, 1916 and shipped April 3rd, 1916 (left the factory on a Friday and shipped out on Monday). The original consignee was the Holly-Mason Hardware Company of Spokane Washington--more on them in a bit. Callahan also added a cryptic sentence: "An additional entry shows a work order #409-20 indicating that work or an accessory of unknown nature was done before shipment". My own theory is that its the Lyman S2 tang sight, which someone had shimmed with a sliver of vintage cardboard from a box of .22 shells.

The Holly-Mason Hardware store emerged with a merger of two hardware stores in Spokane Washington in 1889, and they had the first fireproof building in Spokane in 1905. In fact, the building is still there at 157 South Howard Street in downtown Spokane (originally at the corner of Howard and Railroad Streets, it looks like the latter is now and elevated rail line)



With my best Google-fu, I discovered Holly-Mason was bought out by Marshall Wells Hardware sometime during/after the Great Depression, and then the business was sold to Jensen Byrd in 1960. In 1995 they became Jensen Distribution Services and left the building. Now the building has been repurposed and preserved as a historic building.

The seller on Gunbroker is located in Wenatchee Washington, a mere 137 miles from Spokane. So I am floored that not only is the rifle in great shape for its age, but it spent the last 95 years in the same general area.

I'm going to email Jensen and see if they by chance still have the old files and ledgers, it would be awesome if they could find the sales record.


Edited by Fushigi_Ojisan (07/21/11)
Edit Reason: Correcting terminology

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#5441178 - 07/21/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: Fushigi_Ojisan]
dell Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 367
Loc: Color- Contry ( Southern) Utah
Verry cool!!! I just got a Premier. From an earlier thread it's the Mossburg, not savage, as it was avertised, but I am happy with it.

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#5441766 - 07/21/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: dell]
gnoahhh Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 8611
Loc: Annapolis, Md.
Like, wow man. That is so tubular!

What's this bit about #6 drywall screws? Never heard that. You alluded to using them as snap caps. Those things being as hard as, well, nails, wouldn't they be awfully hard on firing pins?
_________________________
"Where the air smelled like snakes and we'd shoot with our pistols, but empty pop bottles was all we would kill." John Prine

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#5442271 - 07/21/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: gnoahhh]
Fushigi_Ojisan Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/23/05
Posts: 541
Loc: Where the B&O and Pennsylvania...
First the follow-up on the company.

I received email from the Senior VP of marketing for Jensen Distribution, and he asked the longest-serving employee of 46 years (who happens to be the President of the company) about archives--nope, nothing.

In a follow-up email, he stated that they probably vacated the building before 2000.

Some clarification. I meant #6 drywall ANCHORS!



they are pretty close to the same size as a .22lr cartridge with only a slightly thicker "rim". They are far more durable than the purpose-built snap-caps

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#5442559 - 07/21/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: Fushigi_Ojisan]
gnoahhh Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 8611
Loc: Annapolis, Md.
Whew! Had me worried for a second! I like that idea.
_________________________
"Where the air smelled like snakes and we'd shoot with our pistols, but empty pop bottles was all we would kill." John Prine

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#5443074 - 07/21/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: Fushigi_Ojisan]
Rick99 Offline


Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 10594
Loc: N E Kansas
FO, is the butt plate grooved? It the barrel crowned or flat?

Thanks for the letter info. We have little info on production dated for the early .22's.
_________________________
Savage...never say "never".
Rick...

Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!



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#5446856 - 07/22/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: Rick99]
Fushigi_Ojisan Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/23/05
Posts: 541
Loc: Where the B&O and Pennsylvania...
Grooved and flat





Edited by Fushigi_Ojisan (07/22/11)

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#5447033 - 07/22/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: Fushigi_Ojisan]
Dons1 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 1165
Loc: NC Hill Country
FO, I can't see the rear Bbl sight very clearly in your pics. Is it something like this'un?:

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#5447100 - 07/23/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: Dons1]
steve99 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3697
Loc: Eastern PA
Fushigisan,

I think you did fine on that auction.

If you are going to remove the tang sight, can you tell us if the top tang is model marked? Thanks.
_________________________
"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed-unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." James Madison

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#5447304 - 07/23/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: steve99]
GeneB Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 1280
Loc: South Central Wisconsin
Remember when you go to shoot it that 1914's were "NOT DESIGNED FOR USE WITH HI-SPEED CARTRIDGES"
_________________________
Gene

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#5448841 - 07/23/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: GeneB]
Rick99 Offline


Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 10594
Loc: N E Kansas
...to add to that, most of the Savage .22's made before around 1933(?) were NOT designed to shoot Hi-speed ammo. The NRA 19, 1922, 23A might be the exception.

CCI Standard Velocity, CB Short or Longs, any of the sub-sonic or match ammo should work fine.
_________________________
Savage...never say "never".
Rick...

Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!



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#5448874 - 07/23/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: Rick99]
gnoahhh Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 8611
Loc: Annapolis, Md.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't hi vel ammo come into existence in 1932? If that was the case then categorically anything made before 1933 was intended for std vel stuff. There are a few rifles from that era that had/have the moxie for hi speed stuff but they are bolt action guns like the Winchester 52, 1922 Springfield, and various stout single shots and surely some of the better quality 1920's pumps from Sav/Win/Rem. (I routinely fire HS ammo in my 1927 Rem 12C with no visual ill effects. Maybe I shouldn't.) Did Savage give a retro blessing for pre-existing 1919s, 23s, and Model 25 pumps after hi speed ammo came out, possibly through their advertising? I wonder if any of the Big 3 made radical changes to their metallurgy to accommodate the new ammo?
_________________________
"Where the air smelled like snakes and we'd shoot with our pistols, but empty pop bottles was all we would kill." John Prine

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#5449123 - 07/23/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: gnoahhh]
GeneB Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 1280
Loc: South Central Wisconsin
Early 1930's is about right -

Information from John Callahan is that there’s a notation in the Savage ledgers about changes to the model 29 for use with Hi-Speed ammo being done sometime in 1931. I have seen a 29 bolt that had both locking lugs broken off but that does not appear to be something that was changed. There was a recent post about a replacement bolt not working in a 29, I think this was because of the changes.

The later examples of the Stevens Model 71 Visible Loaders, version of 1931 to 1933, have the barrel stamped “REGULAR CARTRIDGES”

In Brophy’s book on Marlins he has a reprint of a May 1932 ‘American Rifleman’ article that details the changes Marlin made to their Model 39 for Hi-Speed ammo.

Pact has warned of using Hi-Speed in model 25’s – it can swell the sides of the chamber where they are cut thin for the extractors.

I have seen warnings not to use Hi-Speed in the Remington Model 12’s but have also heard of people using it in them without any apparent problems, I would avoid it. I have an example of a model 12 bolt where the locking lug is broken off – don’t know how it happened but can’t rule out the use of Hi-Speed. I have worked in sheet-metal for many years and have seen the quality of raw metal vary greatly – I assume that is also the case with guns manufacturers and that one gun of the same model might be stronger than another based on the batch of metal used, or even from variations with the manufacturing processes such as heat treating. Also in model 12’s the change from a flat firing pin to a round one sometime after serial number 650,000 required less material to be removed and appeared to strengthen the bolt. In the 121’s the locking lug was enlarged.


I have seen several examples of Savage 29-A’s, which all would have been made in the hi-speed era, that have the locking surface in the receiver deformed when others that showed much more use were fine – is this from the ammo used or from variances in material and manufacturing quality?


Edited by GeneB (07/23/11)
_________________________
Gene

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#5449281 - 07/23/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: GeneB]
Rick99 Offline


Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 10594
Loc: N E Kansas
The addition of the Hyper-Velocity .22's has probably added to the problem.

Also, it is not as easy to find the standard loadings as it used to be. Most of your common and lower priced rounds are all hi-velocity loadings. Younger shooters would not even think about an older rifle not being able to handle the common ammo of today.
_________________________
Savage...never say "never".
Rick...

Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!



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#5449289 - 07/23/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: GeneB]
gnoahhh Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 8611
Loc: Annapolis, Md.
Thanks Gene. I'll exercise caution with the M12 from here on out, and give it a thorough inspection to see if I damaged it. It's my tin can plinker extraordinaire which means I've been in the habit of shooting whatever was cheapest.
_________________________
"Where the air smelled like snakes and we'd shoot with our pistols, but empty pop bottles was all we would kill." John Prine

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#5449316 - 07/23/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: gnoahhh]
Rick99 Offline


Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 10594
Loc: N E Kansas
CCI Standard Velocity is a great round and in the 50 rd paper box runs $2.50-$2.75/box. Dick's Sporting sometimes stocks it. Also Target Sports USA...or you can pay $7 plus in the 100 rd plastic box.
_________________________
Savage...never say "never".
Rick...

Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!



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#5450439 - 07/24/11 Re: Totally tubular--Savage 1914 with factory letter info [Re: Dons1]
Fushigi_Ojisan Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/23/05
Posts: 541
Loc: Where the B&O and Pennsylvania...
Originally Posted By: Dons1
FO, I can't see the rear Bbl sight very clearly in your pics. Is it something like this'un?:




Nope, not that fancy, it looks more like the one on my Savage 1903, no screws and not marked.

Also, there is nothing under the tang. The screws look kinda odd so I am going to have some made I know will fit.

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