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#5450789 - 07/23/11 09:22 PM Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: FlyboyFlem]
LBP Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 3747
Loc: Central, Texas
Originally Posted By: FlyboyFlem
Originally Posted By: bea175
I haven't been without a 6mm Rem since 1971 , I love the 24's


Same here wish the military and DOD would have planted a 24 on the 223 case way back...


Heck, I just wish a major company would make the 6x45 a factory cartridge. Oh well its loaded by Cor-Bon and Black Hills and is a simple little wildcat with componets everywhere. I have a soft spot for the little 6x45 as its the only wildcat I've ever owned.



Edited by LBP (07/23/11 09:23 PM)
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Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.

The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.

Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.

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#5450798 - 07/23/11 09:27 PM Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: LBP]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 34113
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
After some more experience I decided that one overnight deer was just one of those things.

It only went about 75 yards, but into really thick stuff, and there wasn't any blood trail. I was hunting with an older guy who didn't have much patience with my claim that the crosshairs were in the right place when the rifle went off. We were hunting in his pickup, and after looking for more than an hour he said he had to get home.

I didn't sleep much that night and insisted we go back the next day--and I found the deer within minutes, thanks to a magpie coming out of the thick stuff. Turned out I hit it perfectly, too, right through the top of the heart. The bullet (a 105-grain Speer Hot-Cor) also appeared to work perfectly, since there was about a 1" hole through the heart.

Since then I've seen a lot of rounds sometimes result in more or less the same thing, including a .300 Winchester Magnum loaded with 200-grain Partitions. As a result of those experiences (and others) I don't believe nearly as much in the difference between most cartridges as many people too--or I used to.

My change of attitude about the 6mm's hasn't been so much the new bullets but seeing a lot more game taken, with a lot of different rounds and bullets.
_________________________
John

The ultimate concern of a rifle loony is rifle trivia. And why not? What else is as distracting from the really important concerns of everyday life?

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#5450975 - 07/24/11 12:59 AM Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: Mule Deer]
LBP Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 3747
Loc: Central, Texas
Makes a lot of sense. I've taken probably 20-25 deer and pronghorns with the 243 and always had excellent results. A few ran a little like you said but most went right down. I've never used anything but Cor-Lokts and Interlocks in the 243 but the critters didn't seem to like them at all...
_________________________
Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.

The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.

Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.

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#5450980 - 07/24/11 01:11 AM Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: Mule Deer]
nighthawk Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 7514
Loc: NE South Dakota
John, see, that's because you didn't use a 6mm Remington, a vastly superior cartridge design. (Guess which variety of pretty much the same thing I use? wink )

Funny you should mention a change in attitude. I must have been 13 when Uncle Jack shot a doe at close range (under a hundred) with his new and much bragged up .243 Winchester. Between ribs in and out with no indication of expansion by the old Silvertip. I put it down with a .30-'06 (Grandpa's sporterized Springfield) using 180 grain factory somethings. Pretty much soured the whole party on the .243, certainly Jack as it looked like he was about to wrap it around a fence post. I don't think Jack's brothers who were part of the expedition would've let him live it down except out of kindness.

Fast forward almost 40 years, I'm back in South Dakota and decide to try the 6mm Rem. on deer, the one I set up for coyotes, just for fun. Darned if it doesn't just plain work and that old .30-'06 is the one that gets pulled out just occasionally for something different. Funny, a cousin's kids who were introduced to deer hunting with a .243 think a .30-'06 is about the minimum. I just smile.

Time and unnecessary recoil and rifle weight do odd things to a guy. Best of all, it's one of those six millimeters and not a damned .243.

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#5451224 - 07/24/11 06:29 AM Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: nighthawk]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 34113
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
nighthawk,

Ah, another one of those famous "examples of one"....

An awful lot of hunters decide they know all about killing power after a few dozen animals, because each instance is magnified. But if you see a few hundred (or a few thousand) taken, you become aware that "killing power" (like anything that depends on numerous variables) follows a bell curve.

Anything can happen at the far ends of the curve, whether dropping an elephant with a .22 rimfire to having a whitetail doe run off quite a ways after a heart-lung shot from a perfectly adequate deer rifle.

One of my favorite examples of one was a springbok I shot during a cull hunt in South Africa almost a decade ago. I was testing the then-new (and short-lived) 260-grain .375 Nosler Ballistic Tip. It had worked very well up to that point, dropping various animals up to over 500 pounds quickly, and penetrating deeply.

A pair of springbok came trotting along, a male and female, pushed by drivers on horseback in the valley below. They didn't look all that alarmed, so I tracked them and when they stopped I shot the male (or "ram" as they're called). He dropped right there, as you might expect from an 80-pound animal shot with a .375 H&H.

The ewe ran a little way at the shot, then stopped to look back at where the ram dropped. At the shot she took off running again, going close to 100 yards before slowing and then falling. There was a hole on the other side of the chest you could stick the end of a football in.

From that experience we might extrapolate that the .375 H&H isn't really enough for antelope the size of Labrador retrievers, or that it was a really good thing when Nosler bonded the 260-grain Ballistic Tip less than a year later, because it wasn't tough enough. Instead, all it meant was that sometimes bullet diameter, expansion and velocity don't affect animals the way we theorize they should!
_________________________
John

The ultimate concern of a rifle loony is rifle trivia. And why not? What else is as distracting from the really important concerns of everyday life?

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#5451270 - 07/24/11 06:49 AM Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: Mule Deer]
CrimsonTide Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 15426
Loc: Kentucky
Some creatures (and people) don't give up the ghost like others do.
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"Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."

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#5451287 - 07/24/11 06:54 AM Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: CrimsonTide]
ingwe Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 52320
Loc: Southwestern Montucky
True dat, John, or his lovely bride Eileen will have to tell you the story of her antelope buck in Wyoming sometime....it was apparently beamed down as a cyborg from a spaceship in the future...and mere bullets couldn't kill it! shocked
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#5451296 - 07/24/11 06:58 AM Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: ingwe]
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 28277
Loc: Bozeman, Montana
I had a deal like that once as well, we called her the whitetail from hell. Lets just say that the brawl included my 340 and enough 250 Speers to take on a small country. And it was an Igloo deer if you catch my drift.. wink

Dober
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#5451301 - 07/24/11 07:00 AM Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]
ingwe Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 52320
Loc: Southwestern Montucky
I had one too...a smallish mule deer buck in the Marias river breaks we dubbed " The Terminator"...

Nuff said... eek
_________________________
" I told my Pap and Mam I was comin' to the mountains匨other Gue I said,the Rocky Mountains are the marrow of the world. And by God I was right."
Delgue

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#5451309 - 07/24/11 07:03 AM Re: Mule Deer's 6mm American Rifleman article [Re: ingwe]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 34113
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
That's a good story!

As many people have noticed, an alarmed or rutting animal is often harder to kill.

That particular pronghorn buck was severely "harassing" a doe. Eileen placed the first shot perfectly at about 200 yards, putting a 120-grain Nosler Partition from her .257 Roberts tight behind the buck's shoulder. Blood started pumping from the exit hole in a stream almost an inch in diameter, indicating one of the major blood vessels had been whacked.

After a light reaction to the sound of the shot, the buck started harassing the doe again. Eileen shot him again, pretty much in the same place, whereupon he quit bothering the doe and eventually bedded down, and then lay his head down. When Eileen and our friend Casey Tillard approaching him, though, his head came up and he tried to horn Casey. Eileen shot him again at least twice with the .257 before the buck finally decided to expire. When field-dressed, there wasn't any blood pooled in the chest cavity, because he had finally, totally bled out, over a period of several minutes.

From that we might extrapolate that a .375 H&H might be adequate for pronghorns--if it wasn't for that doe springbok in South Africa.

_________________________
John

The ultimate concern of a rifle loony is rifle trivia. And why not? What else is as distracting from the really important concerns of everyday life?

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