Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Bullet testing

Okay, so I'm 120 days from elk camp, but who's counting. I have two handloads that shot well out of my rifle, but I want to test penetration of each. I don't get the newspaper, so that out. I have been planning to test the loads, so I have saved several 1-gal milk jugs. I would like to get an idea of wound channel as well as penetration. I was thinking of using milk jugs filled with spray foam insulation to shoot/test. My question is, is there any correlation to jugs filled with water (ie 1 foam jug is about 1/2 a water jug or vice versa)? Has anyone done this, shot foam for penetration? Will I be able to see a wound channel. I'm not opposed to just water, but was hoping to get something more than a bunch of shredded milk jugs at the end. What distance (I have about a 150 yards)should I be shooting and what results (with water?) are acceptable for elk?

Yeah, I know gelatin would be best, but the wife would be PO'ed. Any other ideas?

IMHO you are making this way harder than need be.
I assume you are shooting at least a 30 caliber, nothing less than a 308 Winchester.
If are using one of today's "super bullets" (Barnes/Hornady/Nosler monometals, Nosler partition or Accubond, Swift etc) just put the bullet in the boiler room and the Elk will die.

Ignore all the BS about 600 yard shots. Get a 12" pieplate and set yourself up in real world improvised field positions (prone over a pack, sitting off of sticks, and so on). The farthest distance you can put a cold bore first shot into that pieplate every time should be your self imposed outer limit. (mine is 350 yards).

These boys were taken at 250 yards with a 400 Whelen resting the rifle in my hand over a deadfall and at 18 paces, kneeling to slip a 61 caliber 1.4 oz custom maxi-ball through a jungle into the lungs. First one took the 350 Barnes through both lungs, took a few steps and fell over, second one (probably because of the roar, flames and smoke of 80 gr of FFg in an 1809 flintlock), ran 20 yards spraying blood like two garden hoses and fell over dead.

Good hunting!

Yes. About any modern slug or even a lug nut off your rig doing 1,500 fps will drop an elk if its run through the lungs. Leave the testing to the folks with the equipment and facilities. With our limited skills and resources, we mostly just tear up stuff and still do not have any quantifiable data.

If one really wants data, use the myth busters approach, and blow up a bunch of pigs.

Yeah but it was a pure LEAD lugnut !

I will be shooting a 338 Fed, so yeah 30 cal plus. But the issue I see is I have handloads with a 200 grn Accubond and 210 grn Scirocco. Factory, Fusion 200 grn bullets are also accurate enough. Both (Accu/Scir) are "Premium" bullets. But it appears that today's standard of "premium" means able to stay together at magnum velocities. Sites/forums/etc. talk about these bullet holding together with an impact velocity of 3200 fps down to 2600 fps or so. Well the 338 Fed has a muzzle velocity of 2600-ish fps. With my shooting, I feel confident out to about 300 yards. Based on hunting elevation and ballistic tables I should have 2000+ fps and ft/lbs at 300 yards. In theory plenty to kill an elk. But which "premium"/magnum-esque bullet will perform better at velocities of 2200-2000 fps? Or should I go with a convectional (non-bonded) bullet at these reduced velocities. That's what I want to answer.

There isn't any correlation between milk jugs and elk.

My advice would be to load either the 200 AB's or 210 Sciroccos and go hunting. If either fails to kill an elk out to 300 yards (or even 301) it won't be the bullet's fault. Plastic-tipped bullets tend to open quite readily.

I can tell that you're excited; but, in my opinion, you're way overthinking this. When that wapiti gets hit by a truck, it doesn't really matter if it's a Ford, Chevy or Dodge. Any of the three choices that you've given are enough+. Good luck on the hunt!

I have tested the 210 Scirocco II and a 225 AB, not the 200 though. My tests were on phonebooks and stumps, neither of which are elk of course. In a nutshell, both will do great. Based on my very limited fiddling, the 210 SC II will open a bit wider, but retain a bit more % of weight. Not enough difference to be really concerned either way. Have not tested the 200 Fusion, but did chrono some the other day and they were doing just over 2700. Wish I could get that out of a 200gn bullet with available powders. Good luck!

Edit: What are your loads for the 200s? Thought about picking up some 200 ABs from Shooters Pro Shop. I think 180-200 is the ideal weight for the Fed. Seems like low 2600s is what I am getting with other 200s.

And, a 210 SC II will still be doing ~2000 FPS at 500yds if you're hunting elk up near 9000' elevation and they advertise opening down to 1800ish so I would anticipate no issues. Would prefer if I could speak from experience on that though...

I wouldnt bother with the foam in the jugs. It is not elk = milk jugs filled with water but the jugs will give you an idea what the bullets tend to do at your velocities. Shoot the jugs at what ever distance you can set them up and drive a bullet straight enough to catch it. May want to place a cardboard box filled with wet news papers about 4 jugs back to help catch the bullet. I have played this game a few times and sometimes the bullet is hard to recover because it doesnt track perfect and goes out the side of jug 4 or so.
As was posted earlier you dont need to do all this but it is part of the prep for your hunt so go ahead if you like doing this stuff. Pick the bullet that looks like you would like it to look and go kill an elk. Have fun, Dean

You're into a cartridge where only the most delusional of loonies would question the killing proficiency of your choice. Your cartridge & bullet choice won't be affecting this hunt. Rather, your marksmanship, conditioning, & hunting ability will have far more impact on whether or not you come home with meat.

1) Pick whichever bullet shoots best in your rifle, & load up a ton of 'em. Don't shoot from a bench anymore until after your hunt: shoot from field positions. Grab your .22, and shoot several bricks worth from field positions.

2) Get outside & hit the trail several times each week. Carry more & more weight with you over time. Stretch before & after.

3) Hunt the wind, don't make noise, & tenaciously maintain a positive attitude.

4) Send us pictures afterward.

FC

PRM, I think I was using one of your loads from a differ thread, 48.8 LVR and Fed 215 primers, Fed brass, at 2.87. Chronoed about 2620. Worked up the load with Silvertips and switch to AB, same POI, but cheaper to experiment with.

Only hunting at 6,500'-7,000' so SCIR down to 2000 fps at 450 yards out. I have had Barnes bullets with an impact velocity of 2000 fps just curl over and not open, so I don't always trust advertised results, thus the desire to see for myself. But I smell what your are cooking.

I realize I have plenty of gun to get the job done, but I like the psychological edge of knowing what to expect from my equipment/self going into a hunt. The next four months is all about reloading, shooting, and continuing conditioning. Thanks and good luck.

Sounds good to me. Curious, was the issue with TSX or TTSX? Agree a little extra with any bullet is good insurance. Like to hear how the 200 ABs work out.

The problem was with curling was with the Orig X but also had zero expansion in the TSX, like a FMJ.

The AB shoot better with LVR, but the SCIR shoot better with the TAC. I had mentioned the SCIR to friends/family before my b-day in May and now I currently have 250+ pieces sitting on the bench, so I leaning that way for now.

1. There is not one hunter in 100 who has any business shooting at big game at 450 yards. "Long Range Hunter" is a term coined by the old timers who still stalk game to within 50 yards and dispatch it with a M 94 30-30, for "Too lazy to get off ATV".

2. IME the best bullet in the 338 Federal for Elk is the 225 TSX.
In my pinweight Kimber it will hold 5 in 1" @100 with a max load of 4198 YES 4198.

3. Last Elk it killed was a mature dry cow, under 200 yards, broke both shoulder, exited and was dug out of clay bank behind her. No tracking required.

4. The Barnes don't expand BS is just BS. We have tested them on ballistic gel down to 1400 fps, they still opened to at least 2 calibers.

5. 35 Whelen 200-250 yards, Moose, Elk, Big Mulie, only recovered because they were quartering away and bullets ended up in neck. All one shot kills.


6. That said, a 338 Federal would not be and is not my first choice for Elk hunting. My R-1 300 WinMag will shoot 150 or 168 TSXs @ 3000-3100 fps and hold 3 under 1". Good handling, fast followups, accurate and with the Nightforce 2.5-10x32 illuminated is IMHO about state of the art NA big game rifle and will kill any Elk that walks the earth much farther than I will ever choose to shoot at one.


That's all, await flaming responses.

So, you're suggesting a rifle that shoots a 180/185 bullet at 2750ish is somehow inadequate or makes the elk less dead? I can think of a couple cartridges that approximate those numbers and have earned their rightful position as more than adequate. Or, the 160 TTSX out of a 338 Fed at well over 2900 is somehow inadequate? Whatever...

Love the pink bullets...................