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#5484242 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: Ghostinthemachine]
JGRaider Online   content
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 14605
Loc: W. Texas
Originally Posted By: Ghostinthemachine
Mulie, I think your timeline on Bausch&Lomb is off by a mile and probably some other things are incorrect as well.

I distinctly remember almost buying a pair of $900 B&L reverse porros at Cabelas in about 2000-2001.

That aint' "what somebody told me". I was there and they were in my hands and I almost wrote the check.


Just like you almost know what you're talking about, but not really.
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#5484311 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: Mule Deer]
Wildalaska Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 604
Loc: In My Easy Chair in Alaska
Originally Posted By: Mule Deer

A perfect example is the Zeiss Conquest rifle scopes. The only parts actually made by Zeiss in Germany are the erector tube and its lenses. The other lenses and main tube are made in the Czech Republic, and the major parts are assembled in the the U.S. Some of the screws may be made in China, along with the raw glass, since China has had a Schott glass plant for almost a decade.



As of 2008 you are incorrect as to the manufacturing, although they are assembled in the US.

You are correct about the outsourced raw glass, but it is made in Taiwan

WildiseeditwidmyeyesAlaska ™©2002-2011


Edited by Wildalaska (08/03/11)
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#5484327 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: JGRaider]
dubePA Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 3943
Loc: PA
I can recall people arguing 25-30 years ago, whether or not Balvar scopes were actually made by B&L. From what I recall, they were pretty good scopes, regardless of who made them?

I have Jap Tascos that are that old and still doing well, so WTH do I care? ;O)
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#5484384 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: Wildalaska]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 36623
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Wildalaska,

Would appreciate knowing your source of information, since I was informed directly by Zeiss in 2009.
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#5484553 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: JGRaider]
Ghostinthemachine Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 12872
Loc: Minnysoda
Originally Posted By: JGRaider
Originally Posted By: Ghostinthemachine
Mulie, I think your timeline on Bausch&Lomb is off by a mile and probably some other things are incorrect as well.

I distinctly remember almost buying a pair of $900 B&L reverse porros at Cabelas in about 2000-2001.

That aint' "what somebody told me". I was there and they were in my hands and I almost wrote the check.


Just like you almost know what you're talking about, but not really.


Lol. Touche. grin

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#5484646 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: Mule Deer]
Wildalaska Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 604
Loc: In My Easy Chair in Alaska
Originally Posted By: Mule Deer
Wildalaska,

Would appreciate knowing your source of information, since I was informed directly by Zeiss in 2009.


Standing in the Zeiss plant in Wetzlar, watching them grind glass, and make erector assemblies and tubes, all the while talking to the production folks as well as the President of the entire company and Erich Schumacher, Zeiss USA president

WildthatsanoksourceAlaska
™©2002-2011
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#5484691 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: Wildalaska]
HOGGHEAD Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 1047
Loc: Rivesville, WV
Guys I believe Bushnell and B&L still have business attachments. Not sure if it is affiliated with scope manufacturing or not(don't think so). But they still do business together. It never really did end. Just changed.

At one time B&L did manufacture sporting optics and then sold them under the Bushnell trade name. But now I think the affiliation is in other products like sun glasses and optical instruments.

There were alot of links between Bushnell and B&L. If I remember correctly the owner of Bushnell optics was actually an employee of B&L. I believe he was in management. But the owner of Bushnell was an importer of many products, with binoculars being his main import for many years. Tom.


Edited by HOGGHEAD (08/03/11)
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#5484713 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: HOGGHEAD]
jim62 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 5978
Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD
Guys I believe Bushnell and B&L still have business attachments. Not sure if it is affiliated with scope manufacturing or not(don't think so). But they still do business together. It never really did end. Just changed.

At one time B&L did manufacture sporting optics and then sold them under the Bushnell trade name. But now I think the affiliation is in other products like sun glasses and optical instruments.

There were a lot of links between Bushnell and B&L. If I remember correctly the owner of Bushnell optics was actually an employee of B&L. I believe he was in management. But the owner of Bushnell was an importer of many products, with binoculars being his main import for many years. Tom.


Your info is about 10 years out of date.

During the 1990s Bausch and Lomb allowed the Bushnell company to lease the B&L name for use on sporting optics for a time after the split.

That agreement expired about 10 years ago. Which is why the High end B&L marked Optics became "Bushnell Elites" instead of B&L.

Bausch and Lomb made it clear they want NOTHING to do with the sporting optics business. They have considered themselves to be a medical products company(prescription lenses, eyewear etc) for the last 15 years since they sold off the sporting division.

And BTW, my info comes from the same source as John B's. direct from folks who have worked at the top levels of Bushnell's marketing dept since the 1970s until just a few years ago. I have known those same people since the late 1980s.



Edited by jim62 (08/03/11)
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#5485194 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: jim62]
dogcatcher223 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 14128
Loc: Kolorado
Typical internet...you never know what to believe. I recently read somewhere that the Conquest glass was outsourced from Meopta (which is in fact in Czech). Now somebody else is claiming it is made in Taiwan...
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#5485403 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: dogcatcher223]
StrayDog Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 5878
Loc: Texas
It is getting to be as bad as the auto industry where practically any brand has parts from various places in the world.

That said, I like my Vortex binoculars.

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#5485497 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: StrayDog]
Reloader7RM Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 5863
Loc: NW La.
I just like the ones that have good glass and repeatable turrets.

laugh

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#5485706 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: Wildalaska]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 36623
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Wildalaska,

I also got my information from Erich, though here in the U.S. and not in Germany.

So what were you told that differs from what I was told?
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#5485988 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: Mule Deer]
RDFinn Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 17617
Loc: Bernardsville, NJ
dc223 is correct. Glass comes from Meopta. Everything is assembled in LI, NY.

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#5486623 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: dogcatcher223]
eyeball Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 03/23/11
Posts: 33041
Originally Posted By: dogcatcher223
Typical internet...you never know what to believe. I recently read somewhere that the Conquest glass was outsourced from Meopta (which is in fact in Czech). Now somebody else is claiming it is made in Taiwan...
yea, and then they saide they watched the lenses being ground in the zeiss plant in germany. damn, just just just damn
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#5486630 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: Reloader7RM]
eyeball Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 03/23/11
Posts: 33041
Originally Posted By: dogcatcher223
Typical internet...you never know what to believe. I recently read somewhere that the Conquest glass was outsourced from Meopta (which is in fact in Czech). Now somebody else is claiming it is made in Taiwan...
yea, and then they saide they watched the lenses being ground in the zeiss plant in germany. damn, just just just damn
Originally Posted By: Reloader7RM
I just like the ones that have good glass and repeatable turrets.

laugh

which are?
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The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.

If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.

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#5486729 - 08/03/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: eyeball]
WinModel70 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 1245
Loc: Tennessee
I thought you had to have government clearance to get in the Zeiss plant in Germany? WildAlaska must have some friends in high places.

IIRC, Doug, (cameraland) stated the Conquest glass is made by Schott and not by Meopta.
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#5486881 - 08/04/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: eyeball]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 36623
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
eyeball,

What I said about Conquest scopes in my original post is that Zeiss only makes the erector tube and it's lenses in Germany. The larger lenses are made in the Czech Republic. (This is from information I got directly from the U.S. offices of Zeiss, from the head guy.)

Somebody objected to that--and then said they had seen the erector tube and lenses being made in Germany. I recently posted a question asking how that differed from my answer, but he hasn't gotten back to me yet.
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#5486959 - 08/04/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: Mule Deer]
Armen Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 537
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: Mule Deer
Optics manufacturing went world-wide long ago, just like any other sort of manufacturing, from cars to televisions. Every company buys at least some components from another specialized company, whether screws or lenses.

I don't know of a single optics company that makes everything under one roof. Some companies may grind and coat their own lenses, but they don't make the glass itself.


This is true. Whether its optics or airplanes, we'd be hardpressed to find all components manufactured and assembled in a single country. US-assembled jet engines, avionics and airplanes may be branded "made in the USA", but many of their individual components/sub-assemblies are manufactured in countries that would make an American/European product advocate's skin crawl.

Same goes for T-bones and toothpaste. At least some of the materials used in those products (fertilizer, feed, antibiotics, etc. in the case of the steak) are OFTEN (not always) made in countries some folks consider uncouth, unclean, unqualified, unethical, unamerican, etc.


Edited by Armen (08/04/11)

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#5487009 - 08/04/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: Armen]
Blackheart Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 5059
I don't give a damn where my scopes are made. So long as I can see through the SOB till the end of legal shooting time and my bullets consistently hit where the crosshairs intersect I'm happy.

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#5487123 - 08/04/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: Blackheart]
Kimber7man Online   content
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 10031
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
+1. This is the optical version of ballistic gack...
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#5487724 - 08/04/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: Kimber7man]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 36623
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
"Optics Gack" is pretty much the definition of the Optics Forum....
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John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#5487752 - 08/04/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: WinModel70]
Wildalaska Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 604
Loc: In My Easy Chair in Alaska
Originally Posted By: WinModel70
I thought you had to have government clearance to get in the Zeiss plant in Germany? WildAlaska must have some friends in high places.



Couldnt get into certain areas of the plant...but had a nice tour and the folks there are nice people.

So let me repeat...based on what I was told and saw at Zeiss plant. the tubes and erector assemblies for all Zeiss scopes are all made right there. The lenses (ie ocular and onbjective) were being made and ground there. The boxes of raw glass I saw were labeled as being made in Taiwan, which I understand is the source of much of the raw glass used in the optic industry.

Conquest glass and Diavari glass is the same but for coatings. Coatings is where the cost is anyway

Glass is glass, it could be made in peru as long as it is of the correct formulation. Its the grinding and the coating that set scopes apart from each other.

WildihopethatclearsthisupAlaska ™©2002-2011

By the way, if you really want to get some hackles running, lets talk about how the Euro rail tubes are stronger than the US non railed tubes smile


Edited by Wildalaska (08/04/11)
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#5487763 - 08/04/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: Wildalaska]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 36623
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Wildalaska,

Thanks for the additional info. Evidently things have changed a little since I was provided the information.

Actually, it doesn't surprise me that Zeiss now has the time and capacity to provide the bigger lenses and tubes for the Conquest, since the downturn in the economy.

Though it is also interesting that they decided to have their latest spotting scope made in Japan to their specs.
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#5487788 - 08/04/11 Re: Thought Vortex was USA made? [Re: Mule Deer]
Wildalaska Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 604
Loc: In My Easy Chair in Alaska
Originally Posted By: Mule Deer
Wildalaska,


Though it is also interesting that they decided to have their latest spotting scope made in Japan to their specs.


I would assume that Cosina (Nikoh) is involved with that as they have been working with Zeiss for years

WildincameralensesAlaska ™©2002-2011
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