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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,177
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,177 |
Thats not something anyone with a bit of sense would attempt
Well I doubt anybody has ever accused Flinch of having any sense
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508 |
Didn't read the entire thread, but IME you shouldn't shoot any animal head on.
I've arrowed my share of whitetails, with recurves and compounds...and I have killed a few with head on shots, but they were from the ground and not from an elevated stand.
If I hadn't had a dog, I would have lost 1 of those deer.
Problem #1- If the animal is looking at you he can react to the shot (ie duck, move). I understand some bows today are like rifles but all he has to do is move a few inches and you have problems.
Problem#2- If you attempt that shot from an elevated stand, you are almost guaranteed to [bleep] it up. I've had to track too many that boneheads shot, not realizing that from an elevated stand, the vitals are covered by the head and neck. They aim for the brisket and end up wounding the animal or sticking a shoulder.
The worst was a 160 class buck that a fella I was guiding got excited about and drew on too early. Instead of listening to me, he let one go and ran it thru the left shoulder.
We found that buck dead 3 days later in a pond...
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,855
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,855 |
If that shot is that low a percentage for you. Then you need a lot more practice. If @ 20 yards or so you can't get a group of six arrows in a 1-1/2" diameter your not very good. Now take the 1-1/2" diameter and place that on the right or left chest cavity and see how much more room you have. You have a lung and major arteries and vessels then liver. My percentage within 25 yards on that shot isn't below 80%. Now add the freak chances (turn right or left and out) and that is a clean miss 80% of the time. Should he duck the shot his throat is sliced wide open. I would play those percentages. They are spades above all those long range rifle percentages. With all do respect, as you mentioned(we are all very much entitled to our opinion) I disagree a 100 percent. Have you ever seen the deflection of arrows off tiny twigs/sticks??...sometimes this leads to a matter of feet. Had that shot of been to the left, he may have hit that rather HARD bone/cartilage in the chest, resulting in a very much wounded animal. On two quartering away shots on deer from a ground blind, my arrow has hit this exact bone/cartilage in the chest and it has stopped the arrow nearly dead on the spot. These were with cut on contact broad heads as well, with modern equipment...I guess the point is, if a deer stops the arrow, what would an elk do??..lack of energy results in a lack of penetration on heavy bone or structure. Now, as you mentioned if the elk DID turn to the left/right on a frontal shot, the "clean miss" would be much lower percentage then the 80% you mentioned...my reasoning being, if you watch the video, as the elk turned to run--what happens when he is hit?? He turns, and reveals a very LARGE hind quarter..pierce that with an arrow/bullet or any other non lethal part of his body and you better strap on some running shoes. Just my opinion, MK BTW a hindquarter is a VERY lethal part of an animal if the right arteries are hit center of the ham.. Much better than an arrow stopped by a bone from penetration I agree, however, IF those arteries aren't hit(as I am sure you will agree), there again...you are going to be after a wounded animal. I personally am not a gamblin' man, and have the self control necessary to hold back on marginal shots. With that being said, when I was a kid, I shot a doe in the hind quarter with a .30-30 at probably 15 yards..she took about two steps and bled like I shot her heart. As you could imagine, there is a reason for the hind quarter shot--To much glass, and not enough experience At 15 yards(approx.) a hind quarter looks a lot like a front shoulder when your amped on adrenaline aiming at your first deer..grins
MK
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
I'd be hard pressed to say that a frontal shot even with the animal moving, is a higher percentage shot than my long range shots. Of course my level of proficiency with a rifle may be above yours too.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851 |
Wanna answer this for me there mr. armchair hunter. Yeah, but that can go with any shot. I busted a bull a couple of years ago in the arm pit with a 4 blade head, complete pass through. Very little blood, chased him for a couple of hours. Found him the next morning. The arrow had gone between the heart and lungs somehow. Bull!!! Your full of crap! Show me HOW that happened! Bump for the armchair hunter.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,794
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,794 |
Bump for the professional client ass wiper and baby sitter. Congratulations? Flinch
Flinch Outdoor Gear broadhead extractor. The best device for pulling your head out.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,794
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,794 |
[quote=Flinch]
I dont know why I even respond to you Flinch, I feel like I'm beating up on a retarted kid. I feel the same about you drumdum. I like pulling your pig tails, hearing you squeal like a little girl, then running to the teacher to tell on me. It's never not funny. I can cast my lure into the same pool over and over and you will keep biting the same hook. I don't even have to change the presentation. Now, who is the real idiot? Flinch
Flinch Outdoor Gear broadhead extractor. The best device for pulling your head out.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851 |
Flinch, no matter your lingo.... You will never be a bigstick.
Congratulations?
Laffin'
Btw gonna answer the question I asked?
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554 |
I once shot an elk in some brush at 32 yards that was off to my right and coming straight in. He didn't present me with a broadside shot and all I could see was from the middle of his front shoulder forward. He wasn't a huge elk (5x5) but he would be my first if I decided I could make the shot.
So I took the shot and put the arrow just under the right side and below his chin, into his neck. Completely blew out his jugular and he didn't go 100 yards before he piled up. That was the only shot I had and it was risky but I had the confidence to make it.
Moral is, just because someone takes a risky shot doesn't mean it's a bad shot to him, might be to someone else and they wouldn't take it, and there's nothing wrong with that.
And with todays gear, if your shooting 6 arrows into a 1 1/2" group at 20 yards, your going to go through a [bleep] of arrows in no time. BTDT. The juglar isn't maybe 3/8 inch wide at the most on an elk. could be half an inch. You are saying that on a wild animal, that will likely move at teh release of the arrow, you can nail that target every last time? I say you were damn lucky on that shot. I've been damn lucky too. I didn't say I could make that shot every time, didn't even say I would TAKE that shot again but at that time I felt good about it so I took it. And luck had nothing to do with that shot, the arrow went right where I wanted it too, so how is that luck? I've had other opportunities on other game that were probably easier but factors played into it where I didn't feel comfortable taking the shot so I didn't.
That's ok, I'll ass shoot a dink.
Steelhead
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,177
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,177 |
[quote=Flinch]
I dont know why I even respond to you Flinch, I feel like I'm beating up on a retarted kid. I feel the same about you drumdum. I like pulling your pig tails, hearing you squeal like a little girl, then running to the teacher to tell on me. It's never not funny. I can cast my lure into the same pool over and over and you will keep biting the same hook. I don't even have to change the presentation. Now, who is the real idiot? Flinch So you say stupid [bleep] on purpose just to make me call you on it? Your dumber than any of us thought possible.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851 |
Well apparently ol Flinch aint gonna answer my question.....you guys draw your own conclusion..... I already have...
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,606
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,606 |
I've read most of this thread, and IMO a frontal shot is never a high percentage shot. I've killed several critters with everything but a crossbow. I took one frontal shot on a doe once, put the arrow exactly where I wanted it to go, and she did die.
looking back I shouldn't have taken the shot, yeah it worked but had it been different just a little bit it would have been bad news. I go with the odds, and a broadside shot trumps all. and really it has nothing to do with how confident you are with your shooting, you shouldn't even be out hunting with a bow if you can't put the arrows where you want them. but expecting nothing to change in the split second from the release to impact is wishful thinking at best. animals move, they raise or lower their heads, they side step, something could make them turn, you name it. chit happens. granted not all the time, but it can and does. I'm not about to risk wounding a deer or elk because of that factor.
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
Calm seas don't make sailors.
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