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#5502080 - 08/08/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: huntsonora]
HugAJackass Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 04/09/10
Posts: 15725
Loc: AL, USA
I don't own a bow, as such I have never bow hunted. Both my brothers have quite a bit. That said, my father gave me good advice when he first took me to the field. Granted it was with a rifle, but I think the principle still applies here.

"Never, EVER, shoot at a deer."

"Dad, if I don't shoot at hit how will we get it!?"

"Again, don't you dare EVER shoot at a deer. Shoot at a SPOT on the deer."

Basically, know exactly where your bullet/arrow is going to impact before you pull the trigger/release the string.

Those that KNOW what their projectile is going to do can call certain shots a low risk, where those that THINK they know what it will do have to agree that those shots are indeed high risk...... for THEM.

Take that any way you like.
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#5502213 - 08/08/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: cal74]
rost495 Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 38298
Loc: La Grange, TX
Originally Posted By: cal74
I took that shot on a whitetail a while back, probably about 20 yards. He jumped the string just a tiny bit and thankfully ran about 30 yards to my left staying about 20 yards away and stopped again.

I was able to knock another arrow and he dropped within 20 more yards.

If I hadn't been able to get that second arrow off, I'm sure I would have lost him. Won't be trying it again, deer or elk.


Herein is the answer to all this BS.... he jumped the string just a bit... Hell lets be totally honest, that sweet spot is about the size of the brain.... It'd be as easy to sink a broadhean into the ear socket as it would that sweet spot... and the only reason I dont'... is due to possible movement... Its something you can't control, and at what... 300 or so FPS from a fast bow, its an issue. Its not an issue much at all at 3000 fps...
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#5502667 - 08/09/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: Flinch]
Tom264 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 21634
Loc: above you.....
Originally Posted By: Flinch
You and Tom should be BFS's, swap spit and brag about the T.V. hunting shows you watched this weekend. That is where you both get all your bow hunting experience, especially you drumdum. When was the last time you killed anything with a bow, let alone an elk??? We are all ears. Your armchair expertise cracks me up. Flinch
Your such an idiot!! seems not many here agree with your "archery wisdom"....wonder why? Laffin'

You wanna ask ME the same question about when was the last time I killed anything with a bow.....?

I got pics.
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#5502761 - 08/09/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: Tom264]
Tom264 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 21634
Loc: above you.....
Wanna answer this for me there mr. armchair hunter.

Originally Posted By: Tom264
Originally Posted By: Flinch
Yeah, but that can go with any shot. I busted a bull a couple of years ago in the arm pit with a 4 blade head, complete pass through. Very little blood, chased him for a couple of hours. Found him the next morning. The arrow had gone between the heart and lungs somehow.
Bull!!!

Your full of crap!

Show me HOW that happened!

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#5502770 - 08/09/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: Tom264]
Tom264 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 21634
Loc: above you.....
Just trying to help the idiot out here..........

Elk anatomy and shot placement....by the experts! Laffin'
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#5502878 - 08/09/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: Tom264]
TRnCO Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 652
Loc: Elizabeth, CO
One thing is for sure, broadside shots have a very good chance of hitting TWO lungs and the frontal shot has nearly zero chance of hitting TWO lungs. Why anyone wants to argue that the frontal shot is as high of a percentage shot as the broadside shot is, is beyond me.
On a broadside elk, the lung area is about 16"-18" and if ya get one, chances are very high that you'll get'em both. Can't do that from the front.

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#5502881 - 08/09/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: TRnCO]
Tom264 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 21634
Loc: above you.....
Yep, but dont tell Flinch that....he's a Pro-fesh-anal. wink
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#5503022 - 08/09/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: Tom264]
rost495 Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 38298
Loc: La Grange, TX
A frontal can get both lungs, but it can easily or easier, not get both.

Thats not something anyone with a bit of sense would attempt, at least IMHO after many years and many animals down with a bow....
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#5503215 - 08/09/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: rost495]
huntsonora Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/24/09
Posts: 5294
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: rost495

Thats not something anyone with a bit of sense would attempt


Well I doubt anybody has ever accused Flinch of having any sense grin

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#5503594 - 08/09/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: huntsonora]
JohnMoses Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 18251
Loc: Mississippi
Didn't read the entire thread, but IME you shouldn't shoot any animal head on.

I've arrowed my share of whitetails, with recurves and compounds...and I have killed a few with head on shots, but they were from the ground and not from an elevated stand.

If I hadn't had a dog, I would have lost 1 of those deer.

Problem #1- If the animal is looking at you he can react to the shot (ie duck, move). I understand some bows today are like rifles but all he has to do is move a few inches and you have problems.

Problem#2- If you attempt that shot from an elevated stand, you are almost guaranteed to phuck it up. I've had to track too many that boneheads shot, not realizing that from an elevated stand, the vitals are covered by the head and neck. They aim for the brisket and end up wounding the animal or sticking a shoulder.

The worst was a 160 class buck that a fella I was guiding got excited about and drew on too early. Instead of listening to me, he let one go and ran it thru the left shoulder.

We found that buck dead 3 days later in a pond...

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#5505040 - 08/09/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: rost495]
MK257 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 1076
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: rost495
Originally Posted By: MK257
Originally Posted By: MontanaCreekHunter
If that shot is that low a percentage for you. Then you need a lot more practice. If @ 20 yards or so you can't get a group of six arrows in a 1-1/2" diameter your not very good. Now take the 1-1/2" diameter and place that on the right or left chest cavity and see how much more room you have. You have a lung and major arteries and vessels then liver. My percentage within 25 yards on that shot isn't below 80%. Now add the freak chances (turn right or left and out) and that is a clean miss 80% of the time. Should he duck the shot his throat is sliced wide open. I would play those percentages. They are spades above all those long range rifle percentages.



With all do respect, as you mentioned(we are all very much entitled to our opinion) I disagree a 100 percent. Have you ever seen the deflection of arrows off tiny twigs/sticks??...sometimes this leads to a matter of feet. Had that shot of been to the left, he may have hit that rather HARD bone/cartilage in the chest, resulting in a very much wounded animal.

On two quartering away shots on deer from a ground blind, my arrow has hit this exact bone/cartilage in the chest and it has stopped the arrow nearly dead on the spot. These were with cut on contact broad heads as well, with modern equipment...I guess the point is, if a deer stops the arrow, what would an elk do??..lack of energy results in a lack of penetration on heavy bone or structure.

Now, as you mentioned if the elk DID turn to the left/right on a frontal shot, the "clean miss" would be much lower percentage then the 80% you mentioned...my reasoning being, if you watch the video, as the elk turned to run--what happens when he is hit?? He turns, and reveals a very LARGE hind quarter..pierce that with an arrow/bullet or any other non lethal part of his body and you better strap on some running shoes.

Just my opinion,

MK


BTW a hindquarter is a VERY lethal part of an animal if the right arteries are hit center of the ham.. Much better than an arrow stopped by a bone from penetration


I agree, however, IF those arteries aren't hit(as I am sure you will agree), there again...you are going to be after a wounded animal. I personally am not a gamblin' man, and have the self control necessary to hold back on marginal shots.

With that being said, when I was a kid, I shot a doe in the hind quarter with a .30-30 at probably 15 yards..she took about two steps and bled like I shot her heart. As you could imagine, there is a reason for the hind quarter shot--To much glass, and not enough experience grin At 15 yards(approx.) a hind quarter looks a lot like a front shoulder when your amped on adrenaline aiming at your first deer..grins
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#5505309 - 08/09/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: MK257]
rost495 Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 38298
Loc: La Grange, TX
I'd be hard pressed to say that a frontal shot even with the animal moving, is a higher percentage shot than my long range shots. Of course my level of proficiency with a rifle may be above yours too.
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May the road rise to meet you, May the wind be always at your back, May the sun shine warm upon your face, The rains fall soft upon your fields and, Until we meet again, May God hold you in the palm of His hand.

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#5505981 - 08/10/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: Tom264]
Tom264 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 21634
Loc: above you.....
Originally Posted By: Tom264
Wanna answer this for me there mr. armchair hunter.

Originally Posted By: Tom264
Originally Posted By: Flinch
Yeah, but that can go with any shot. I busted a bull a couple of years ago in the arm pit with a 4 blade head, complete pass through. Very little blood, chased him for a couple of hours. Found him the next morning. The arrow had gone between the heart and lungs somehow.
Bull!!!

Your full of crap!

Show me HOW that happened!



Bump for the armchair hunter.
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#5508698 - 08/10/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: huntsonora]
Flinch Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 5794
Loc: Utah, U.S.A.
Bump for the professional client ass wiper and baby sitter. Congratulations? Flinch
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#5508729 - 08/10/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: huntsonora]
Flinch Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 5794
Loc: Utah, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: huntsonora
[quote=Flinch]

I dont know why I even respond to you Flinch, I feel like I'm beating up on a retarted kid.


I feel the same about you drumdum. I like pulling your pig tails, hearing you squeal like a little girl, then running to the teacher to tell on me. It's never not funny. I can cast my lure into the same pool over and over and you will keep biting the same hook. I don't even have to change the presentation. Now, who is the real idiot? Flinch
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#5508922 - 08/10/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: Flinch]
Tom264 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 21634
Loc: above you.....
Flinch, no matter your lingo.... You will never be a bigstick.

Congratulations?

Laffin'

Btw gonna answer the question I asked?
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#5515007 - 08/12/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: rost495]
AkMtnHntr Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 17496
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: rost495
Originally Posted By: AkMtnHntr
I once shot an elk in some brush at 32 yards that was off to my right and coming straight in. He didn't present me with a broadside shot and all I could see was from the middle of his front shoulder forward. He wasn't a huge elk (5x5) but he would be my first if I decided I could make the shot.

So I took the shot and put the arrow just under the right side and below his chin, into his neck. Completely blew out his jugular and he didn't go 100 yards before he piled up. That was the only shot I had and it was risky but I had the confidence to make it.

Moral is, just because someone takes a risky shot doesn't mean it's a bad shot to him, might be to someone else and they wouldn't take it, and there's nothing wrong with that.

And with todays gear, if your shooting 6 arrows into a 1 1/2" group at 20 yards, your going to go through a sh!tload of arrows in no time. BTDT.


The juglar isn't maybe 3/8 inch wide at the most on an elk. could be half an inch. You are saying that on a wild animal, that will likely move at teh release of the arrow, you can nail that target every last time? I say you were damn lucky on that shot. I've been damn lucky too.
I didn't say I could make that shot every time, didn't even say I would TAKE that shot again but at that time I felt good about it so I took it. And luck had nothing to do with that shot, the arrow went right where I wanted it too, so how is that luck? I've had other opportunities on other game that were probably easier but factors played into it where I didn't feel comfortable taking the shot so I didn't.
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#5515777 - 08/12/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: Flinch]
huntsonora Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/24/09
Posts: 5294
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Flinch
Originally Posted By: huntsonora
[quote=Flinch]

I dont know why I even respond to you Flinch, I feel like I'm beating up on a retarted kid.


I feel the same about you drumdum. I like pulling your pig tails, hearing you squeal like a little girl, then running to the teacher to tell on me. It's never not funny. I can cast my lure into the same pool over and over and you will keep biting the same hook. I don't even have to change the presentation. Now, who is the real idiot? Flinch


So you say stupid [bleep] on purpose just to make me call you on it? Your dumber than any of us thought possible.

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#5516198 - 08/13/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: huntsonora]
Tom264 Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 21634
Loc: above you.....
Well apparently ol Flinch aint gonna answer my question.....you guys draw your own conclusion.....


I already have... wink
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#5519288 - 08/14/11 Re: Straight on shots on elk, where they tie their bowtie. Thoughts? [Re: Tom264]
Colorado1135 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 10639
Loc: SW, SD
I've read most of this thread, and IMO a frontal shot is never a high percentage shot. I've killed several critters with everything but a crossbow. I took one frontal shot on a doe once, put the arrow exactly where I wanted it to go, and she did die.

looking back I shouldn't have taken the shot, yeah it worked but had it been different just a little bit it would have been bad news. I go with the odds, and a broadside shot trumps all. and really it has nothing to do with how confident you are with your shooting, you shouldn't even be out hunting with a bow if you can't put the arrows where you want them. but expecting nothing to change in the split second from the release to impact is wishful thinking at best. animals move, they raise or lower their heads, they side step, something could make them turn, you name it. chit happens. granted not all the time, but it can and does. I'm not about to risk wounding a deer or elk because of that factor.
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