Home Forums Gear Hunting Trucks and Four-Wheel Drives Taking About Quality And Price.............

Leaving out all the BS about the government bailouts.........from you guys that have shopped they new 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks............what are they real differences???

Four new Gubmint Motors trucks, since 2002. Price was never a question, since the "rock bottom" best deals were what we went with.

2002 Chevy ZR2 (S-10 4x4); 2006 Sierra Z71; 2006 Chevy Colorado crew cab 4x4; 2010 Chevy Z71.

Three warranty issues with the 2002: Replaced tailgate cables/latch assembly; Replace V6 intake manifold gasket; Dealer replaced OEM tire (BFG T/A KO, couldn't be balanced). No issues in the year+ beyond the warranty expiration. All but the tire, I had done right before the orig. warranty expired, as preventative measures. Approx. 55,000 miles when traded. Was looking at a new Tacoma when I bought this one, the Chevy came in at $7K less w/rebate.

Sierra: One engine sensor replaced under orig. 3/36 warranty; Another sensor replaced under ext. warranty; Fan switch and fan motor replaced under ext. warranty. About 58,000 miles when I swapped it. $5K rebate on this one, plus price had been reduced $3K, before the rebate came out.

Colorado: One recall for defective brake light switch; Ignition switch replaced under ext. warranty; One emer. brake cable replaced under ext. warranty. Lubed squeaky power window door tracks at no charge, when truck was in for crash repairs.

2010 Silverado: 14,800 miles thus far, zilch issues. Sticker, $33K, $7K rebate, plus better price on trade for the Sierra, than I had expected.

By comparison, buds with comparable Fords and Dodges had far more problems than I did, got worse gas mileage and paid more for their trucks, new (2002-2006 time frame).

One bud got a new, loaded Tundra not long after I got my new '06 Sierra, boasted about it continuously for a coupla years, then suddenly got a new Tundra in '09. Still won't say why he traded, but his wife intimated that the truck had some serious ills? Do know the comparably-equipped '06 Tundra cost him a coupla thou more than my GMC cost me.

Not much. I have a 3/4 ton and want a half ton. I like having a diesel I just hate oil changes and fill ups; plus I don't use the engine enough to warrant it. If you tow often then a diesel is the way to go, I don't. If you tow heavy then same as before. Most all 1/2 ton trucks will tow over 10k lbs now. For a DD or trips to Home Depot or deer hunting I would just get a good half ton that I liked. I like the f150, have a buddy that raves about his Tundra. Take your pick of the one you like the most and enjoy.

micky

I tired of my 2006 2500HD Duramax CC/SB, which was flawless but which I totally did not need. I sold it to a nice young family last year.

And I bought a brand new 2010 Chevy 1500 4X4 CC/SB 5.3/3.42 with the new 6-speed tranny. The new rig is the top-of-the-line LTZ with every possible option ... Victory Red with Graphite leather.

Expensive? Yup, but who gives a schit. It's MY TRUCK for goodness sake and I've totally got my priorities in the right spot.

Holy CRAP I have absolutely never enjoyed a new truck as much as "BLOODY RED LTZ," the new six-speed tranny is at least as "smart" as the Duramax's Allison was and it's power band is enormous.

Great mileage? Hell yeah ... easily 21 mpg on the highway and 15.5 around town is a snap. And it pulls our 7,800-pound trailer house sooooo easily.

Yeah, I know all the bullshit about Obumma Motors and all that crap and I could care less. GM is making one hell of a nice truck today and count me as a fan.

I had the bed sprayed by Line-X and bought one of the fabulous Line-X tonneau covers. Cool product and downright bulletproof.

My new Chevy has been totally flawless. If I bent it tomorrow, I would buy precisely the same rig, same LTZ and same total options again. It's fracking perfect!!!!

Can you tell that I LOVE MY TRUCK??? It's a beautiful thing, a guy and his truck. And this gorgeous RED puppy is am amazing truck.

Steve




















[img]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/dogzapper/P1020070-1.jpg[/img]


[img]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/dogzapper/P1020207.jpg[/img]


[img]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/dogzapper/P1020206.jpg[/img]

The new 2011 Duramax/Allison with the exhaust brake is a great truck (but expensive). I just made the switch to a diesel 3/4 ton and it is significantly more enjoyable to tow with than my 2005 1/2 ton. If you tow a camping trailer infrequently, go 3/4 ton gasser. If you tow a camping trailer alot, go diesel.

I'm on the road over 1 month and a minimum of 6,000 miles of towing per year. For me the diesel makes the most sense. I won't likely buy a 1/2 ton again. If I wanted a gasser, I would still go 3/4 ton or 1 ton.

i will never own a half ton again, axle carrier bearings spin when over loaded, smaller braking capacity, less payload, c-clip axles, lighter frame, the 3/4 wil ride a lot rougher but in my mind it is totaly worth it, if you not towing a lot buy a 3/4 ton gasser, beyond that buy what you like, they all have there advantages/disadvantages but over the long run a 3/4 ton will last longer, did i mention I really hate half ton axles.
I really thing i gonna start buying wrecked trucks and just build my own from peices, nobody makes what I want anymore, so fug-um I starting from scratch

Yer too damn old for a red truck.

That's what my son told me in '02, when I bought the new ext. cab S-10 ZR2 Chebbie, also in Victory Red. Dark charcoal Buckets, 5 spd. manual, pretty nifty little truck and handy for getting in and out of tight spots.

Missed that little pizzer for some time, when I went back to a full sized pickemup in '06. Got over it. Only b-itch I have with my '10 Z71, is crappy mileage. As noted, the '06 GMC (5.3L/3:42s) did 20 highway, no sweat and was a rocket. The "new" one w/3:08s, sux monkey gonads, both in off the line whupazz and fuel mileage.

I'd swap'er on an '11 with 3:42s in a heartbeat, but the other half would get fired up. Can't complain about it either, 'cause she's still pizzed I got rid of the '06. Makes two of us. ;O)

Dang, I'm up in the middle of the night again. Spine PAIN.

Victory Red ROCKS.

I owned the first 2500 Chevy Avalanche in the Portland area. The combination of it's Victory Red paint and the absolutely incredible 8.1-liter engine made it an astounding rig.

Once, we were coming back from an enormously successful mule deer hunt out of Brusett, Montana. We stopped for lunch in Lewistown, Montana and I parked the bright red three-quarter ton Avalanche in front of the cafe.

In about ten minutes, the Avalanche was surrounded by about a dozen Montana cowgirls. Some were enormously appreciating the cool truck ... the rest were drooling on the pair of 28-inch, heavy-horned mule deer that Karen and I killed.

Victory Red simply raises my heartbeat about thirty percent.

Steve

PS. For some reason, it is very difficult to find Victory Red trucks in our area. It's almost always a factory-order situation. Amazingly, I found my 2010 on a lot and I bought in a heartbeat.

By the way, I LOVE MY TRUCK. Have I said that before??

Bought new a year ago. Went Tundra.

Get out drive them all, factor in your biases and make a choice.

Just curious...you list a number of repairs under ext. warranties. Did you have ext warranties on all 3 trucks? Have you added up the cost of the repairs vs the cost of the warranties? I hear arguments for and against them. I'm just wondering if the warranties paid off in your case.

Had a GM ext. warranty (5 year/77K) on the '06 Sierra, but it was offered when the truck already had about 22K on it (3/36K warranty back then, new).

IIRC, cost around $1400 back then and had a $100 deductible. That was the "best" warranty offered, as it covered all the bells and whistles. Would've been cheaper, had I opted for it when buying the truck new.

So it cost me roughly $800 while I owned that truck (4+ years), in coverage: Two deductibles, plus a check for $800 and change in a refund, when I bought the 2010 Z71.

Engine sensor was "break even", as it would've cost about what the deductible was; Fan switch/new fan, a bit better. Deductible covered it, actual cost of repairs, close to $600. That truck had dual zone heating/AC.

Got an extended warranty when I bought the new truck last year.

Fact. warranty is 5/100k on drivetrain. Ext. warranty covers all the bells and whistles for the same period. Cost $1200, no deductible on this one.

Had intended to keep the '06 far longer than 4 years when I bought it, which is why I opted for the ext. warranty when it was less than 2 years old.

Ext. warranty on the '06 Colorado, also bought with the truck, new. No deductible, IIRc, also about $1200? So far, ignition switch and brake cable are the only two uses. No charge for either repair. Costs, according to dealer paperwork, amounts to roughly 2/3's the cost of the ext. warranty, to this point.

Not difficult to find a red one in these parts.

When I bought my '10, dealer had a red one identical to mine (ext. cab Z71); One crew cab version Z71 and one ext. cab LTZ. Got a black one this time. No chrome grill bars/front bumper inserts. Same color as the truck on the frontend, which I like.

'06 was "stealth gray", never really showed the dirt much. The black one ain't the best choice, since it spends lots of time on gravel roads when I go to the cabin. Depending on the weather, it's either covered in mud...or brown dust.

So after about five minutes in the boonies, it looks like a black and tan hound, with wheels.

rahtreelimbs,

Over the past 40 or so years, I have owned a bunch of pickups, both half and three quarter ton, Fords, GMCs, Chevys, and most recently Dodges.

I currently own two Dodges, a '99 2500 Diesel, and an '09 1500 Hemi.

The Dodges have, without doubt, been the most reliable of the bunch. The '99 is now at nearly 100,000 miles, without a single mechanical problem, of any kind. All I have ever done to it is routine maintenance.

Same story with the '09- although it only has 20K miles, it has done so without a single mechanical problem. It is very comfortable- my wife would rather drive it than her Grand Cherokee. It tows my boat with ease, and the 390 HP Hemi is just plain a kick to drive. Gas mileage is better than any of my previous trucks, other than the '99.

I would buy another one, in a heartbeat.

My 2000 Yukon XL was making some lifter noise 2� years ago, & I got a dealer to lower his pants on a 2007 replacement, so I made the switch.

The 07 had just under 41,000 miles on it at purchase, & now has just over 63K. They replaced a cracked dome light control, & the instrument cluster under the 12 month/12K GM Certified Used warranty.

I've noticed that I've had to top off between oil changes with progressively more oil, so I took it in 2 hours ago to get an oil change, & start their oil consumption test. They came back saying there are leaks at the oil pan, the rear seal (Yikes!), & the left front drive shaft. They're going to replace all of them under the 5 year/100K warranty. I'd be more upset about having to be without it for a day or two, if I weren't heading out for a sheep hunt...

All I know is that I've had more problems with this 07 in the past 20-ish thousand miles, than I did with the 2000 model in the 184,000 miles that I had it. My hope is that everything that's going to go wrong with it will go ahead & do so before the powertrain warranty is up.

FC

Zapper,

I can tell you love that truck!! I may be in the market for a new truck soon and might have to give the Chevy a look. Nice looking truck you have there.

Thank you, my friend. It is such a total pleasure to drive.

Steve

I've shopped them as I'm in the market for something next year. Based on everything I can find, there are no clear winners. Some at a bit better than others in the small details of performance or cost to operate and maintain. The competition has been so great that the US made trucks are doing as well as the famous Toyotas for the most part. The Ford 150, and the Dodge 1500 are rated as recomended and very close to the Toyota Tundra by Consumer Reports for instance.
The Toyotaq Tacoma is rated right with or even a bit less than the Nissan sized trucks. The Dodge Dakota isn't however. Haven't bothered looking at the Ford mid size.
The only really clear differences as far as trucks go are in the serious off road vehicles. Nobody makes anything even remotely similar to the performance of the Dodge Power Wagon, for instance. Nobody makes anything like the Jeep Rubicon either. But you can get a Nissan mid size, a Toyota Tacoma or a Toyota FJ with electronic locking rear differentials. E

I just traded my 2006 Tundra on a new F-150. I can't give a true answer to the quality yet because it has 600 miles on it. But MPG have exceeded what I expected. Pulling a 5000 pound boat, for 208 miles I got 14.5 MPG. Without the boat I'm 19.6 on the highway so far.

It is far more stable than the smaller Tundra was, and has more power than I should have in a vehicle.

I gotta say I am really suprised to hear of all the issues folks talk about, and how they trade them in so soon also,barely broken in. I sold my 93 Ford 7.3 a few years back and all I ever replaced in 200k miles was a trans (expected) and a powersteering pump. My 2007 tacoma has been basicly flawless at 70k already. I seriously doubt I will sell until 300k plus. BTW, once I figured I didnt need a 3/4 ton for work anymore, I went with the tacoma. Its the best all around hunting rig I have ever seen, no regrets....

I went with a Tundra 4x4 crew cab a couple of years ago. Get 20mpg on hw/interstate, about 12-13 pulling a camper and livestock trailer. The price was as good as the Chevy and Ford I looked at...but the dealer really came off the price a lot. One big thing about the Tundra that pulled me that way was the dealer's forever warrenty.....as long as I follow the minimum maintenance schedule and have it documented they warrenty the powertrain, engine, 4x4, etc forever.... I'm the kind that will drive a vehicle until it's worn out...I don't trade in or buy until something dies....so this was a big plus to me...it seemed the dealer had a very high regard for the Tundra to do that...wouldn't be a big deal for someone who trades in often but it was a huge selling point for me and spoke to the quality of the truck at the price point.

Dealer I bought my '10 Silverado from, gives "forever" free annual state inspections. They're located in a small, rural PA town, but many customers drive some distance to buy from them (40 miles for me, third truck bought from them over the years).

They will come get your rig and bring it back, if you press them to do it, but I've only ever availed myself of that once in 14 years ('97 S Blazer, warranty repair).

Have never seen one offer "forever" warranties, though? Probably not much of a gamble, given that few people keep something for more'n a few years?

Where is this at and how many units do they sell each year?

Two Toyota dealers within about 10 miles of me. Neither has ever offered any great deals on Tacos or Tundras, that I've ever seen? The year I bought a new S-10 ZR2 (2002), GM/dealer rebates amounted to around $5K. By comparison, the Taco was $1K off and the sticker price was a coupla thou higher to start with.

Actually intended to buy a new ext. cab 4x4 Taco that year, but decided it really wasn't worth several thousand more than the ZR2.
Same for Sierra/Silverados vs Tundras, in price and rebate reductions.

I was looking on and off for a few months for a new truck. I looked at Chevy,GMC,Ford and Dodge. Best deals were on the Chevy followed by the Dodge. Out of all the trucks the Chevy/GMC have the highest highway mileage even better then a 6cyl Tacoma. The Ram has the best ride slightly edging out the Silverado although I cannot buy a Dodge for any amount of money because of their reliability record.

Ford had lots of incentives and great pricing on mine. I got $11K off the sticker + $1000 cash back.

Based on my own experiences, those of my friends, and Consumer Reports long term records, Dodge trucks are right there with the other full size trucks when it comes to reliability. The Dodge 1500's are on their recommended list along with the Ford 150. The half ton Chevys aren't. When it comes to the 3/4 ton, 4WD's, they give the Chevys a slight edge over the Dodge and a bit more of one over the Fords. E

Actually, I would buy a Dodge because of their reliability record. I have a 99 Dodge 2500 with 375,000 miles on it, if that's not reliable I don't know what is. I wouldn't buy a GM product, I don't trust them to hold together for the mileage that the dodge will.

Chevrolet and GMC trucks are always on the consumer report recommended list and have been for years. All I know is of about 20 truck owners that I personally know the only one that had a LEMON LAW applied was a Dodge P/U with a DIESEL. Like the ad says there are more GMC Chevy pickups on the road in more of a range of model years then any FORD or Dodge, the only other truck is a Toyota PU.

Here in Canada our diesel fuel prices are the same as gas,high, so for the 1T and 3/4T, we go with the torgue,it makes hills and trailers so much easier. Twice, I passed new gassers on long hills pulling a quad like me.They had passed me on the flat,as I was just loafing along at 65MPH.

Recommended rebuild milages for the diesels under heavy use, GM 200K,new Ford 250K, Cummins 350K.

The ad claiming that Chevys are so long lasting ignores the fact that most of them are very old trucks kept alive by the abundance of parts availiable in junk yards and the back yard mechanics that can work on them.
The point about the small Toyotas is true. But, in the last few years, to be competitive, Nissan, Ford, Dodge and GM all make stuff that can go the distance like the small Toys.
As far as tough goes, or lemons, I've seen more Chevy/GM's with significant problems than either Ford or Dodge.
The other thing is that GM would have been bankrupt and may still be if it were not for the government bailout. They have not and aren't expected to pay back what was given them. Or their bond holders. Ford didn't take any money and Chrysler has repaid their debts.
I'm not investing any company with that kind of track record. E

So far this thread has stayed on track and not had any bullschit replies.

Without belaboring the issue, chrysler DID NOT repay all of their bailout cash and is the same as government motors. Unless $1.3 BILLION owed to taxpayers doesn't amount to anything.

"Chrysler and its financing arm needed a $12.5 billion bailout from the U.S. government two years ago. The company was restructured and Marchionne was placed in charge. Of the original U.S. bailout, $11.2 billion has been repaid. The U.S. Treasury Department says it likely won't recover the remaining $1.3 billion." July 26, 2011

http://news.yahoo.com/chrysler-reports-2q-loss-due-bailout-repayment-120458533.html

I'm having a hard time with sticker prices. Paid $31k for my 2003 Cummins 2500 4X4 (Sticker was $39k). Seems like the equivalent truck now is more than $50k.

Bah, I have reached curmudgeon status.

My truck now has 225k. Total engine repairs (not maintenance) has been 2 waterpump replacements and a transmission cooler on the side of the block. Have replaced shocks, brakes (twice) and upgraded the tranny with Suncoast parts. Balljoints, tie rods etc are all original.

Which means exactly nothing. Consumer reports and all the other ratings magazines are complete jokes. Read their articles sometimes, they rate vehicles based upon useless criteria that has nothing to do with a vehicle's longevity. The true test of quality is how long something holds up under hard use. For every 12 year old Chevy/GM diesel still on the road I'll show you ten dodge diesels still working. That's all that matters, all else is just gum flapping.

Consumer Reports have made complete azzes of themselves in the past on other occasions too. In the late 80's/ early 90's they predicted the Chebby Cavalier would be a better long term proposition than the Acura Integra........

Just correcting E who said otherwise that they were not on there. Yes Consumer reports sucks , I know more about things mechanical then most people. I buy based on what I see, hear and feel and most importantly my experience. The fact of the matter there are more Chevys/GMC's and toyotas on the road then any other make by FAR. We are not discussing diesels in this thread BTW.

You sure don't live in high mileage Kalifornia. Chevys simply don't rule here. Most of them are pretty old. The parts stores and junk yards do a lively bussiness.
My 89 Dodge 4X4 diesel was sold in 07 with 306,000 miles on it. Only had a few electrical problems in spite of lots of hard use, including lots of off road rock crawling.
My present one, an 06, has had one small problem. The heater's fresh air door would creak and groan when it moved. Had that replaced under warranty.
We do see lots of Toys, and more Nissans now. Where I live, Jeeps are very popular as well.
Out in the Central Valley, where some put as much as 70,000 miles a year on their cars and trucks, Chevys aren't common. E

We weren't until you brought them up.



If there are more GMC and Chevy pickups on the road it's because there were more of them built, not because of any longevity advantage. I worked my way through college as a mechanic, that cured me of any desire to ever own a GM product.

If you worked thru college as a mechanic and were not impressed by GM but impressed by dodge then there is nothing I can do for you.


I just brought up the fact that the only lemon truck that I know of was a dodge with a diesel . The diesel in his case held up fine it was the POS wrapper it came in. Ford outsells Chevy do they not ? How well do their gas engines hold up? My best friend lives in PA and bought a 1996 Ford F150 with the new triton engine. 87000 miles and it was DRT engine shot. There are more old Suburbans,Tahoes,Silverados on the road then many of the GM haters care to admit. I don't see many Expeditions,Exploders and old F150s on the road that is for sure. What is the resale on an old dodge pickup pre Hemi? LOL

Last year I was hunting elk in Nothern BC oil patch,I was amazed by the brand change. In the 70s and 80s, the only P/U was Ford,though you did see the odd foreign one,Chevy or Dodge.In that country,Chevy was foreign. Now,well over half the trucks were CTDs.

I bought a lease return 08 Dodge 1T longbox Quadcab last year.A bit well used. Third gear in the manual is notchy in the cold,the G-56 is a medium duty truck tranny,not a sports car one. The other problem was the alternator packed it in,from the scarred battery leads I would say the truck was used to jump heavy equipment.After owning a VW Rabbit,when I saw it was Bosch and not a NipponDenso,I was not pleased.Other than that she stood up well to his heavy use.

I love the "Locomotive",a big black metalic monster. I've done half a dozen 12hr runs with one 16.Those M-B seats are great,at my age, I'm an excellent judge.BTW a Nissan is only a 6hr truck.

The new dodge trucks are definitely better then what they were building a few years back. They have the best ride of the 1/2 ton pickups I drove recently. I just do not like the gas offerings and do not have a need for a cummins turbo or any other diesel motor for that matter. Nissan is a waste of money I agree

I'm not particularly impressed with either of them, but of the two GM is by far the least impressive. I'm sure you're correct that there's nothing you can do for me.



You didn't say Chevy, you said GM and Chevy. As I'm sure you know, GM and Chevy combined sell more trucks than Ford, which explains why there are more on the road. (There goes that logic stuff) It also explains why there are likely more of them in junkyards around the country.

Actually you are wrong on the sales figure as well. IF GM is junk then there is nothing I can do for you. I know that old Dodge was junk the new ones seem better but still not GM in overall quality.

Seriously,quality overall is so close to the same,1/2% or so,sort of thing,doing brands is even more meaningless than 257Wea vs 264WM. That doesn't say there aren't some quality issues,such as old Powerstrokes and Detroits.The 6-speed GM/Ford auto has some work to do,better off with the M-B 5speed, at least it has simple preventive fixs.I really wonder about the new small displacement, high output engines when loaded.I don't think they are designed for full load.The 4.7 Dodge when heavily used fries the oil.

Used Dodges were at one time almost as good a buy as Cornbinders.Not anymore,GMs have that around here.

The reason there are more of them in the junk yards is because they're junk...most of em anyway.

Every brand has its strong points and some have serious weak points. I look at the combination of all and it points to GM. I don't know where the GM horror stories come from but it must be generated by jealous Ford owners and we have the internet. I repeat I see more of them on the road in all age ranges then any Ford or Dodge by far. That said I am not exactly happy with the way the corporation is headed. I doubt I buy another unless they radically change direction with the policies of the white house.

More of that junk is registered in DMV offices throughout the US then any other brand except Toyota. Ford outsells GM by 100-200K vehicles a year. I used to be a truck manager for Ford in the 80's ..their downhill slide started back then.

Both Ford and GM use the very same 6-speed auto,both are tarred with the same brush. I'll suspect the Aisin(sp) auto is the best.

I have driven the 6 spd Ford and GM and still don't see what the deal is with them. They don't get any better gas mileage but I bet they are complicated as hell and expensive to fix.

# of times fixed.Given some more testing by the suckers,errr buyers,they should turn out OK. The Allison did.My hunting partner ,a real Ford man,is more than a little anal on research. His choice is the Dodge with the M-B,just over the tranny.The M-B is the one used on their big Merc. It's a 5 speed,but also has a passing only gear. When a separate oil cooler and a hydrualic filter are added,they are good trannies.That's good advice for all autos.

I am putting off any new truck purchases until someone comes out with a turbo 4 or 5 cylinder diesel..even if it is a little smaller then my Silverado. I am afraid that they(GOVT) are going to push even more hybrid on us and push the price of new trucks off the map.

Have had very good luck with Chevy and GMC products over the last 20 years. All 1/2 ton and Suburban/Yukons.