Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire free breakfast, lunch and snacks @ Public Schools WTF....

The children need to be removed from the home by DCS, if drug usage by the parents is involved and it's affecting the safety of the children. The cases you shown are at the top of the list, for children being removed from the home.

In many situations that DCS gets involved in, a parenting plan is imposed and if the parents are meeting the requirements, the children will remain in the home. Every state and court plays the game diffrently. We live in a world that sometimes mistakes are made by DCS and the courts involving children. I too have seen cases in which the entire family, parents, grandparents and great grandparents, none of which are a safe and secure setting for children. We live in a crappy world at times.

Thank you, sir!
It's good to be back.

I�ve been called a socialist because I don�t have a problem feeding a hungry kid at school; fine, I guess I�m a socialist. This notion of ANYTHING socialistic is bad is steeped in ignorance. Everyone�s so quick to throw out a demeaning label, socialist, communist, liberal, whatever; anything to jab a guy who doesn�t agree with the party line. The fact is, there is no ism that in and of itself really works. Pure capitalism is just as flawed as pure communism. That�s why you take pieces from here and there to find out what works. This is why I like to debate, because it�s interesting to discuss what will or will not work. You want to label me, cool, label me whatever you want. If your dogma only allows one direction, you�re the dumb one, not me.

Feeding a kid at a public school is a socialist idea. But then so is a public school itself. We as a society have determined that public education is a good thing for society in general; we accept that bit of socialism because we have seen through history that a completely ignorant public is far more harmful than the cost of public education. It�s a good investment, pennies on the dollar when compared to ignorance.

But there are people who allow talk show hosts or the media to do the thinking for them. They listen to nothing but complaints about public education and then deduce that all public education is bad, that this formerly accepted good has become 100% evil. Not 20% evil, not 75% evil, 100% evil. If you really think that, then you have become an extremist. You�re only allowing yourself to hear negative about public education so you�re in effect brain washing yourself into believing what you probably want to believe anyhow. This is classic justification of sin. You don�t like something that�s good, so you just fill your brain with all the excuses why your position is right, only your position is right, and anyone who disagrees with you gets the label of the day.

The FACTS are, public education is still pennies on the dollars even with all the monumental problems it has. Education, even a publically funded education is still pennies on the dollar to complete ignorance. Read that sentence again, I said COMPLETE ignorance. Even a little education gives society as a whole great benefits. If I have to explain what those are, then I don�t have much to work with; and you�re not likely to change your mind anyhow�just slap another label on me and go about your business.

With all that said, only a fool would ignore the problems with our public education system. But to scrap the entire thing is a fools errand. Public education is every bit as important, or even more important than your pet love of government; defense. If we do away with our educational system, you won�t need a defense department, because there�ll be nothing worth defending. We�ll just be a giant chit hole where no one wants to go�kinda like Somalia. Oh wait, education has nothing to do with Somalia, all their problems are because they�re black; my bad.

Capitalism is a great thing, but if you think that it�s the only thing, then you haven�t done your homework; for Somalia is the most open, non-regulated, free market in the world. There is NOTHING going on in Somalia that you don�t directly pay for, including education and defense. Somalia needs some bits of socialism really bad�Remember, the defense department is a SOCIALIST establishment too. I go to jail if I don�t pay for it, I don�t get to pick how much I pay for it�meaning if I disagree that we should spend as much as we do, it really doesn�t matter, society decides (psst�that�s socialism). I�m compelled to pay for, and at times, even serve directly against my will.

Now that�s an absurd analogy, but it�s to make a point; I love our military and I�m not for a SECOND suggesting we get rid of the department of defense. Just saying that you have to have social programs that are publically funded to have a functional society.

An under fed child will ultimately become a disruption for the kids who are properly fed, bringing down the quality of education for the entire class. If nothing else, again, it�s pennies on the dollar to pay for a meal, just so the rest of the class gets a quality education. We�re clearly not getting our money�s worth in the US on education, but it�s NOT because we�re feeding a hungry child.

Kevin,

The question is... where to draw the line.

Our "leaders" won't seem to do that, so folks get fed up with everything.

It is not wrong to feed the poor... but the Government has broken the system.

It is our best instincts they turn against us.

Kevin and temmi, both very good, thoughtful, real-world posts.

I'm with you my friend. We draw the line on the things that offerno value at all, this has value; just ask the REAL expert, the teachers in the classrooms.

Trim waste somewhere else. A hungry disruptive kid affects my good, well fed kid. But having a school district with one school in the district, and having a superintendent for that district who makes 90k a year; that's where you draw the line. This is the case with my school district. Fire the superintendent and have the principle and their staff do the job, and you can pay for a BUNCH of meals.

That's all I'm saying. Because I promote one little socialist piece doesn't mean I promote it all. See, that's the problem with people here and why you can't have a decent discussion. You say ONE thing, and they immediately push it to an extreme and re-define what you're saying. Americans have lost the art of gentlemanly debate.

THIS program works. There are a chit load of other programs that don't work; I don't support them. But the topic of this thread is SPECIFICALLY meals for kids; I'm for it. I'm not for all the other BS, just for this.

Kevin, you AIN'T a socialist. When it comes to that program, it isn't out of the realm that conditions will vary greatly from area to area. Here, being fed or not makes little difference in the disruption. That depends far more on the "culture" than anything else. Call it the "hip-hop" culture if you want, but that is the single biggest problem and nutrition has ZIP to do with it. Not much diff between a well fed gangsta and a starving gangsta behavior wise. Hackett School in Albany is the recipient of every social program imagineable. The City of Albany is about to close the school down completely because it is actually the most violent in the entire state. It also appeared that the more money thrown and the more programs brought in, the worse the problems got. Good money after bad, good intentions blown up in the face. I am not a fan of said social programs. Link help to performance and maybe you might have something. There is even more to it than that but this is sufficient for now. And NO, you ain't a socialist. I just think you are wrong here.

School lunches have always (for a long time anyway) been subsidized by the FedGov. After all, when the USDA pays price supports to farmers by purchasing commodities, where do you think it goes? It certainly isn't all being sent to Africa. So every kid who has eaten wheat in the form of flour products, macaroni, peanuts, peanut butter, butter, dry milk, cheese, margarine, vegetable oil, sometimes honey, olives, vegetables, fruit, etc has gotten government subsidies. Every kid gets a benefit, some more than others. Farmers and ranchers also benefit. (On the flip side, wildlife benefits instead when FEdGov pays them not to plant and harvest some of their land in order to bolster prices.)

Excellent observation!

In my area, I live in Harlem for white people. So there is no gangsta culture here, just kids of POS parents. And believe it or not, more often than not, these are good kids, but their parents are a POS. Yeah, some of these kids area already a lost cause, but most are not. My wife works with them every day and it's sad when you know that's the only square meal they're going to get.

On this subject, I'm seeing the folks who are for this are those who either work or have family that work in the schools. That makes me think the one's who are for it are a bit more educated on the subject than those who really have no direct connection to the education system.

And it's okay if we disagree; that's what goes on here. I think it's kinda sad that anytime someone disagrees they have to be labeled and marginalized; that sucks. Again, we've lost the art of gentlemanly debate. But clearly you haven't. Great post sir.

Since I may be one of the ones who seemed to complain about the free lunch let me attempt to explain what I am talking about.

First I will say that I am NOT saying that those children who's parents can truly not afford to feed them properly should be denied a meal. That was not and is not my beef.

I do have a problem with everybody getting free food just so those on free plan can "feel good about themselves". IMO one of the first lessons anyone needs to learn is that life ain't fair.

When I was teaching as I said before we were required to sit at table while the kids ate.

Race has nothing to do with my complaint at all though to be fair again I did see the behavior to be described more often in one than in others.

I don't know what food charges are today, when I was there breakfast for those who paid full price was 60 cents and lunch was a dollar.

Some kids on the free or reduced price roll come to school as clean and neat as they could be. They would get their plates along with everybody else, sit down and eat every bite they got. Almost everyone of them when they got their food said "Than you Ms._______" to the food service worker who handed it to them. I did not and do not begrudge those kids a meal in any way.

Contrast this to the bunch that grabbed their plates and started to gripe because they had cereal and milk instead of pancakes. Would throw their milk away because chockolate milk wasn't on the menu that day. Dump their sausage and pancake on a stick because it wasn't a pastry. Throw away their chicken nuggets and fruit cup because it wasn't pizza. Toss their hamburger and just eat the chips. Dump their spagetti and meat sauce and green salad because they wanted tacos an tacos were not offered that day.

Now you can say it is the parents fault for not teaching the kid manners and to be appreciative for what someone gives them free. You are probably right about that but then I ask who in hell IS going to teach them?

Was it left to me the kid who dumped a free meal because it wasn't to their taste would not get another until they showed some appreication for what was provided them.

Same with the stuff the bus free school supplies that our local school does. Kids whose parents supposedly can't afford school supplies are given a bag of essenials free. Then you watch SOME of them throw away notebooks because theirs was blue and they wanted red.

If someone adult or kid wants to live out of my pocket or the taxpayers pocket then they can show some appreciation and thanks for what is provided and if not then it won't be provided and they can just do the best they can until the lesson is learned.

As I said show some appreciation for free food or starve for all I care.

Taxpayers are damn tired of getting the shaft, and at times that can bring about a bit of an over-reaction to ANY spending. The US government doesn't have much credibility with the US taxpayer, so for many the knee jerk reaction is to say, screw you, 'cause I'm tired of you screwing me.

James, understood and agreed with your thoughts all along. Good, sensible view of things that can be discussed by reasonable people. That is what we need in this country to make things work that are good and to eliminate those that aren't.