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#5576873 - 09/01/11 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI
65BR Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 12631
Loc: NW Louisiana
How close would these two be?

Read an article on the '6mm Creedmoor' which made me wonder if that round was being commercialized.

I recall JB mentioning the 6.5 parent round can be made from 22/250 brass, so figured the 250AI would be perhaps identical ballistically and perhaps almost the same in specs as a 25/6.5 Creedmoor.

Anyone?

I think there would be some following of 6mm, 22, and 25 versions of the Creedmoor and based on past success of calibers in this country, would expect the first two might be more popular. A 22 version would be similar to a 22/250 AI, as a 6mm close to a say XC. A 25 Creed would eliminate brass forming for a 250 AI if mfg.

IF they ever are produced, I hope to see a fast twist 8" bbl used in the 22 and 6mm for heavies and of course a std. 10" ROT in the quarter bore.

I just wonder how 'niched' the Creed may be to competition shooters and if a larger opportunity exist with other small bore sizes - 22 thru 25. No doubt a 5mm version would be smoking hot!
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#5577106 - 09/01/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: 65BR]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 36623
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
The big difference between the Creedmoor and .250 AI (aside from the bullet diameter, of course) is that the Creedmoor has a 30-degree shoulder angle, and the Ackley Improved use a 40-degree shoulder.

In reality the 6.5 Creedmoor is more like the .250 RCBS Improved, which used a 28-degree shoulder. Which is why I didn't refer to the Creedmoor as an AI in my article, but a "6.5/.250 Savage Improved."

I am sure rifle loonies everywhere are necking the 6.5 CM up and down in search of the perfect cartridge. Whether Hornady will do so is debatable.
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"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#5577420 - 09/01/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: Mule Deer]
65BR Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 12631
Loc: NW Louisiana
Thanks JB, a 30 degree seems better regarding feeding. On that note, any issues w/250AIs feeding well w/standard OEM magazine parts?

As us Loonies know, there is no round that is UTOPIA.

I see alot of potential in a 22, 6mm and 25 cal round i.e. on the 6.5C case, the benefit being having as low a recoiling round that shoots flat w/ample power for varmints thru deer.

No doubt, the current 22s, 6mm's, and 25s ballistically do those jobs now, though I appreciate the efficient design of the Creed case, low taper, sharper shouldered, and I like short actions.

To carry it further, no pun - a fast twisted 22 and 6mm might offer a niche not presently occupied to my knowledge in a mid sized capacity round. LR shooters would take note I believe.
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#5577466 - 09/01/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: 65BR]
prairie_goat Online   content
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 6836
Loc: Montana
Originally Posted By: 65BR
On that note, any issues w/250AIs feeding well w/standard OEM magazine parts?

No
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#5577509 - 09/01/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: 65BR]
260Remguy Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 17189
Loc: NE
I never could get the 250AI to feed consistantly in my 77RSI, so I rebarreled it to 25 Souper, which has the same case capacity and feeds better, at least for me.

JEff

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#5577567 - 09/01/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: 260Remguy]
DanAdair Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/15/08
Posts: 7190
Loc: NW Montucky
Ballistic Masturbation at its finest...
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#5577579 - 09/01/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: 65BR]
DanAdair Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/15/08
Posts: 7190
Loc: NW Montucky
Originally Posted By: 65BR
As us Loonies know, there is no round that is UTOPIA.




Whats wrong with a 308?


The older I get the more I realize that you can pretty much kill everything with a 308. I've thinned the herd to the 308 Montana, and about 3 dozen flyrods wink

There is NO FLYROD UTOPIA!!!! But a high end RL Winston 4 piece 5 wt is CLOSE...
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#5578399 - 09/01/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: DanAdair]
65BR Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 12631
Loc: NW Louisiana
Dan, I guess where a 308 interest me is in using a 130 TTSX, which runs neck and neck with a 130 in a 260 (trajectory etc.) out to 400 yds.

Now don't even get me 'learned' in the art of casting a fly rod else I wish I might have taken to Golf wink LOL.

Good info guys thanks.

Oh, as to that one round dilema, LONG before I had my first rifle, I longed for a 270 b/c JOC loved it, so he wrote. I was sold on it - and owned a few......maybe someday I will go back to it as a mainstay, and who knows, I MIGHT just try a 308 one day!

For now, I prefer smaller bores for most of what I do, but you being in the big mountains where big critters abound, there may be some added comfort carrying a rifle of larger bore size.

I cannot argue that you have not chosen well.
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#5578547 - 09/01/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: DanAdair]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 36623
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Dan,

Back when I wrote perhaps a little more about flyfishing than about hunting & shooting, I had a pile of flyrods and only 3 centerfire rifles (.223, .30-06 and .338 WM). Now that I don't have time to write about flyfishing anymore, I have half a dozen flyrods and 50 centerfires!

So I guess it depends on how you define "need"....
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John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#5580288 - 09/02/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: DanAdair]
johnw Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 8668
Loc: old gap grove
Originally Posted By: DanAdair
Originally Posted By: 65BR
As us Loonies know, there is no round that is UTOPIA.




Whats wrong with a 308?


pretty darned close...
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#5580587 - 09/02/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: johnw]
65BR Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 12631
Loc: NW Louisiana
Could be, for an all arounder, since short actions are often nice.

I guess I like the 'Road less Traveled'....as well as keeping recoil at a minimum for what I need a rifle to do.

Nothing at all wrong w/the 308 if it does what the owner needs.
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#5581239 - 09/02/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: 65BR]
280Ackleyrized Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 01/16/03
Posts: 3597
Loc: Mt. Hermon, LA/Gulf of Mexico
Cliff, I too have pondered on the CM case and what may could be done with it. And as soon as a steady cash flow gets to coming in I may just test the waters a bit. Wonder how a 7mm CM would stack up beside the ol 7-08? Heck for what I do I could pretty much get by with a 22CM and a 6.5CM. But that takes some of the fun out of being a rifle loony
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#5581369 - 09/02/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: 280Ackleyrized]
65BR Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 12631
Loc: NW Louisiana
Prob duplicate a 7mm IHMSA - 300 savage case. And some have done the 7mm/6.5x47 Lapua.

The CM case in 7mm would be very close to the 7-08 IMO.
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#5581381 - 09/02/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: johnw]
bea175 Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 02/15/02
Posts: 27827
Loc: Kpt.,TN , Montgomery, Co, VA
why would anyone want a 25 when the 6.5 Creedmore is available? Much better choice of long range bullets in the 6.5.
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#5581413 - 09/02/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: bea175]
65BR Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 12631
Loc: NW Louisiana
B/C I have all I need w/260 and the 6.5x47L w/Lapua brass. Hard to overlook that option.

And as you mentioned - LR bullets, yep more options in 6.5 than 25 though I'd not be using a mid sized 25 at longish ranges.

Now in a 6mm - perhaps.

I do like the idea of a short 22 or 6mm ctg. that has a fast twist bbl - in factory options.

Thinking high BC.
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#5584806 - 09/04/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: 65BR]
Hondo64d Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 4164
Loc: The Big Country
As much as I liked the .250 AI, I couldn't see it doing anything a .260 (and now 6.5 Lapua or CM) wouldn't do and the 6.5s have the added benefit of the high BC bullets.

John
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#5584937 - 09/04/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: Hondo64d]
65BR Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 12631
Loc: NW Louisiana
It won't - it's just...well...different. I like the package, VERY mild report, recoil, flat, accurate, deadly, and works well in a short action. From varmints to deer to 400 yds, I see it very suitable. Having shot a 6BR, alot, the 250/AI would give similar ballistics to those ranges, and killing power, while feeding w/o any concern or mag mod.

It's a very efficient round, but then again, the 6XC has my interest since there is no 243 fast twist in factory form. If I am going custom, I might go that route on my next 6mm.

Not that it is not capable, but if I get back into 25s since my long ago 1B 25-06, it will be a 250 or AI form, and ONLY if I already have a 6.5 in the stable smile

No doubt it's ability with heavier bullets gives it that much more ability on larger than deer sized game should one desire.
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#5586930 - 09/04/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: 65BR]
Hondo64d Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 4164
Loc: The Big Country
I DID like how the .250AI fit in a 2.8" magazine box...

John
_________________________
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

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#5586970 - 09/04/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: Mule Deer]
DanAdair Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/15/08
Posts: 7190
Loc: NW Montucky
Originally Posted By: Mule Deer
Dan,

Back when I wrote perhaps a little more about flyfishing than about hunting & shooting, I had a pile of flyrods and only 3 centerfire rifles (.223, .30-06 and .338 WM). Now that I don't have time to write about flyfishing anymore, I have half a dozen flyrods and 50 centerfires!

So I guess it depends on how you define "need"....


Why don't you and Eileen plan on heading up the North Fork next mid July and I'll see if I can help you with a realignment of priorities laugh Of course we can drink lots of beer and discuss [bleep] that doesn't matter for hours on end wink

I do think its interesting the 3 calibers you listed though... I'd go 260, 30-06 and 338WM though. That would cover the rifle bases quite well. You could manufacture "need" for more rifles in between your ears, but you'd certainly do alright otherwise.

Now a man can never have too many 5ths of SIngle Malt Highland 15-18 year old Scotch around the house... Thats not even up for debate...
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#5587011 - 09/04/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: DanAdair]
brinky72 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 2930
I never understood why 120 grains is the heaviest .25 slug anyone ever made. Why not 125,130 or even 135. Just run a faster twist barrel like everyone else does when shooting heavy 22's or 6mm's? I bet a 25-06 or 257 Roy firing a 130 or 135 grain slug could really get it done way out there and compare to the 6.5's.
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#5587022 - 09/04/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: DanAdair]
DigitalDan Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 24860
Loc: Yankeetown, Fl
Quote:
There is NO FLYROD UTOPIA!!!! But a high end RL Winston 4 piece 5 wt is CLOSE...


Now Dan, don't be bringin' that rod to the Keys looking to snare a bonefish. I think the first part covers it.
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#5587028 - 09/04/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: brinky72]
DigitalDan Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/02/04
Posts: 24860
Loc: Yankeetown, Fl
Originally Posted By: brinky72
I never understood why 120 grains is the heaviest .25 slug anyone ever made. Why not 125,130 or even 135. Just run a faster twist barrel like everyone else does when shooting heavy 22's or 6mm's? I bet a 25-06 or 257 Roy firing a 130 or 135 grain slug could really get it done way out there and compare to the 6.5's.


It isn't. There was a fellow a few years back making 150 grain bullets for the .25s. Used a 7" twist. Haven't heard much about it in over a decade.
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"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. - RIP -




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#5589995 - 09/05/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: DigitalDan]
brinky72 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 2930
150's would be a bit much but a 130 would be nice for the bigger 25's.
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#5598213 - 09/08/11 Re: 257 Creedmoor vs. 250 AI [Re: brinky72]
65BR Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 12631
Loc: NW Louisiana
Agree- possibilities esp. in a Bob or better yet Neidner...QT of course.
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