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rvp Offline OP
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I purchased an Arisaka custom rifle for a song at a gun show. After the first shot I realized it was a wild cat and had the gunsmith check the chamber. A previuos owner had rechambered to 6.5x257 Roberts. I ordered a $125.00 set of dies from RCBS, and reloaded using 6.5x55 data to start. I got zero accuracy and so I rebeded and refloated the rfle. Just for kicks I recrowned and started over. Two hundred rounds later after trying every combo I could find, I decided to slug the bore and found a .268/.257 diameter. So I ordered some Hornady 160 gr rd nose flat base .268 bullets used in Carcano rifle and went back to the reloading . Still no decent groups. I checked the teist and was a little suprised to find a 9 twist. So now I've ordered some buffalo .268, 140 gr jacketed boat tails. Any other ideas appreciated !!!! This is a pristine rifle and has a strange arsenal mark not shown in any books that I can find. It has a thin 24" barrel and a trigger that is superb for a military rifle. Stock is great.The saftey works with only a thumb flip. WHAT NOW GUYS ?


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Humm! That's the rifle the Japs used, they lost the war! If the action is nice enough why not re-barrel it.

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I'm confused about the .268/.257 diameter. Is that .268 groove and .257 land ? If it is in fact a 6.5x257 I'm thinkin' you should be using .264 (std 6.5mm) bullets. Or have/are you? Didn't mention it in your post.


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rvp Offline OP
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Well I started with Sierra 140 Match Kings and tried 8 other bullets. Not a single 264 bullet would give me under 2 inches. at 100 yds. Yes the .268/.257 is just what you guessed.


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What were your expectations from a rechambered military barrel? If you want better groups a rebarrel is in your future. ..Russ

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Open sights or scope? If scoped, the scope could be bad, try another. But seriously, how accurate do you think a rechambered surplus WWII Jap rifle is gonna be? Maybe that's why you got it for "a song". A borescope might tell ya something.


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Quote
After the first shot I realized it was a wild cat


So....What happened on the first shot?


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Where to begin..... Problem #1) its a freakin ARISAKA fer cryin out loud. #2) As stated above, it is a barrel made as cheaply and as quickly as it could be made and still shoot "minute of american" at typical combat ranges of WW11 #3) If the barrel was not set back quite a bit before it was re chambered you probably are blowing out these cases a good bit at thier rear as the Jap rounds are fatter at thier base and first 1/2 inch or so than the 257 Roberts case back there, and the chamber is pretty sloppy. Not good for accuracy. #4) It's a freakin ARISAKA!

My advice, sell it and the dies for a song at another gun show and count your losses as a lesson learned. Then, go buy a good rifle. Lots of 'em out there for probably about what you have invested in the original rifle + $140 for dies + bullets and components. Either way, good luck - and Imean that most sincerely. MARK


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Well I have the "same" rifle and apparently the "JAPS" made this one "right" because it shoots fine for an "Arisaka" grin....my best loads will group around 1"-1.5" for five shots at 100 yds (yea it is the original barrel with sloppy chamber and all wink ). Some of the typical things suggested here would be worth checking....I did seat my bullets pretty far out and that made a difference with many of the loads tried. The load I'm using is H4350 and Hornady 129 grain interlocks....other than that I've really got nothing - sorry. Some did make these into 6.5X57s although that should not be too significant in terms of accuracy.

Aside from the feelings about Japan....the rifle is one of my favorite "beaters" that gets a lot of use.

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Are you FL sizing or neck sizing? If FL, you might want to try neck sizing only and see if that makes any difference. It's also possible that the throat is toast.


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Well let me clear up a few misconceptions ,that I must have given you. This rifle was as pristine as they get NIB. I have 37 rifles right now and shoot benchrest with the best of them. A member of NBRSA. I've owned and collected several hundred rifles over the years and some OLD military rifle will out shoot some NEW high dollar rifles. I have one of my Benchrest rifles on Gunbroker now for sale. Just type in NESIKA and you can see that I am no Novice. I have several Arisaka's that have perfect chambers and shoot consistantly under a MOA. I bought some old Model 30 Remingtons last week from Lake Erie Arms for my collection. I just like a challenge and spend my time makin one shoot. My chamber is perfect and the Barrel and crown are also. Safariman you just never gave one of those Jap girls a chance. P.O. Ackley said it was one of the best actions he ever tested. He could never blow it up (action). He also built several wildcats on the action.
Nothing happened on the first shot except I got a 6.5x51 blown out to 6.5x57. The bolt was not even tight. You guys do realize the early rifles were all hand made. I have a 6.5x55 Austrian Mauser set trigger custom hunting rifle built in the 30's that shoots 5/8" at 300 with Game kings, and an 8mm-06 Mauser set trigger custom built in Germany that is awesome. One of my 96 mauser snipers will shoot with the best.
My next step with this rifle will be to shoot the 140gr .268 Buffalos and try som 100 to 120 gr .264 bullets. I have had great luck in the past with some old discards. I will keep trying and if you can keep those ideas floating in.
I have changed the scope twice but if I have to I will put one of my new Leupold 4.5x14x50's on it. Thanks for the help guys and help me sell that benchrest rifle # 250290303 on gunbroker, cause I want a couple of Cooper's on Gunbroker.


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How many barrels have you gotten rid of on your bench guns because of bugs? If you have shot as much as you say, I'm sure more than a few. The Jap action is a strong one no doubt, but it is normally not a first choice for a rifle build and since you do not know how the work was done, could be fighting a losing battle. Still bet a new tube would fix it. ....Russ

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Yep, the Jap action is strong, and I narly memorized PO Ackleys books cover to cover back in the day. My point was why with such an ugly and rough action? But, to be fair, I have done the sows ear to silk purse thing a time or two myself. Firelapping has been my friend in many of thse cases. In others, a re-crowning was the big improvement. My bloodiest most used rifle is a highly modified Model 1917 remington now in its third barrel. So, good luck and good hunting. Miight want to try some of the Barnes TTSX bullets as they run long and might be able to be seated out to get to the rifleing if the throat is long on your rifle.


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About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Blanket, You have missed the point completely. I'm trying to get a hunting rifle to shoot 1 MOA or better for the fun of it. On my benchrest rifles I usually shoot them until they open up some and set them back and rechamber or just build a new rifle. They are like woman ,each likes something different. I shoot a 6.5x284,6.5x55, 308, 300WSM off the bench at present. I have a 220 Swift and just sold a 6mmx284 bench gun. I shoot about 3000 rounds a year in all calibers. Heck at 66 years old I don't practice like I used to when I shot 22 cal silhouette. At that time I shot 200 rounds a day 5 days a week if weather permitted out of a 64 MP Anschutz. Now I shoot high power only. My 2 model 30 Express rifles I bought use the Model 17 actions. I have a lot of fun just making junk shoot. I don't think there is a barrel out there that can't be made to shoot Minute of DEER. smile


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Did not miss the point. A couple of suggestions in your pursuit. Slug the freebore area in front of the chamber to make sure when it was not opened up when rechambered. This can cause the bullet to tilt as fired. Would assume that you are using a bushing die or a larger expander ball when loading the .268 bullets to maintain proper neck tension. The original 139 grain load used in the rifle was seated out extremely far and will be difficult to seat out to the lands unless the barrel was set back. If the barrel was lathe turned from the military contour, it will not be concentric and may move as it heats up from firing, a little forend tip pressure may help. And if you really want to play, try a bore riding cast bullet at about 1600 fps that is sized about .001 over the largest measured bore diameter. I to have messed with odd rifles including the Arisaka's, krags, springfields, enfields, trapdoors, mausers, ect. and have found that there is some of them that just won't shoot for sour grapes. Rather than beating a dead horse, I would rebarrel them and be done. But then I need to realize not everyone has the shop or skills to do that. By the way the 6.5 x57 is a great cartridge when put in a good platform. Good luck.....Russ

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Thanks Russ,I'm using a wilson 6.5x55 bushing die with about .005 of grip. I prefer about .003 on my rifles because after spring back I like to be able to get just the right tension. That being said, thats on a Benchrest rifle. So I chose to use a .005 on the hunting bullet. Seated about .010 off the lands. Rebarrels here cost about $600. Thats to expensive on a $200 rifle. I am going to change scopes out again and just used some Devcon plastic steel to glue it in the stock. I don't like a round recoil lug to start with, The front site was machined on the barrel when they built it. When we crowned it with the Mansen crowning tool the bore was centered and was square with the barrel

My shooting Buddy looked at the barrel with his scope and said it looked OK. It was sharp and clean. I have some Buffalo .268 140 gr bullets on the way, and will try those.

Last edited by rvp; 09/09/11.

SHOOT STRAIGHT AND OFTEN. Hunt with your kids. Teach them not to shoot anything that they are not going to eat. Have respect for all ANIMALS.
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I have an Arisaka T-38 rechambered to 6.5x57 barrel cut down to 24in and have tried many loads the only one that works is 140gr Hdy SST over 50gr H4831 @2735fps. also my gun WIL NOT shoot with a warm barrel, must let it cool down 10 to 15 min between shots, it also likes a very clean barrel. good luck and if you ever get tired of it holler at me. oh OAL @ 2.992in.


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Just wanted to say that since it is a 6.5mm, then it is probably a Type 38, which was produced prior to WWII, going back to the turn of the century. It is much higher quality than the later Type 99. So there probably ain't nothing wrong with it in that respect. I had a sporterized 38 with mum intact, lyman receiver sights with target front sight, and some old 60s looking semi-inlet-type stock that had surprisingly(from my research) had not been re-chambered from its original 6.5x50r. Turns out it should have been. It was actually accurate but ate brass up. They lumped up predictable near the base every time, which I found out was a common trait among these rifles because they had slightly loose chambers for tropical conditions. I doubt the Japs cared to save brass for reloading, so it was really of no concern to them, just to me, a broke college student who has to reload in order to shoot enough. I sold it last year to a collector at a gun show because it still had the mum.

In my research, though, I found out that most of the re-chambers were to 6.5x .257 Roberts. While I can't confirm this for sure, it seems like some just straight up shot .257 Roberts in their guns. After all, true 6.5mm is .257 bore diameter. But there is a difference between a .25 cal and a .26 cal. Of more interest to this discussion, I also found out that there are two different but very similar cartridges. There is an actual 6.5x57mm, which dates to the late 1800's and is still in use in Europe. Then there is the 6.5x .257 Roberts, an American wildcat of another wildcat invented for rechambering Arisakas so brass could be found.

While they are both based on the 7x57, they are not both simple necked down 7x57s. The actual 6.5x57 had a different shoulder angle, i.e. it is not a simple necked down 7x57. The .257 is, and therefore a true 6.5x.257 would be also. Maybe you should investigate this route and see what you actually have. If you don't believe me, look at Norma's website. Even the 8x57 anid 7x57 have different angles. They don't show 6.5x57 but I'm making the point that not all x57 standards are strait neckdowns.

Actually while typing this I felt I need more substantiation, so I searched for a while until I finally found this drawing of 6.5x57
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledge+Base/6.5x57.html
As you can see the neck angle is about 2 degree difference between the two rounds. You should probably check up on this as you may actually have a gun chambered with a real 6.5x57mm reamer.

Sorry for the long post which may not even have what you need, but I wanted to share that with you.




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Don't matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd.



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I have a custom Arisaka Type 38 carbine that I have been
meaning to have a side safety installed on but havent done
it yet.

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