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Campfire Kahuna
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if you like heavy for caliber, hard cast lead bullets, then you have to go with the .41 Mag.


Sam......

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In order to take all the personnal prejudice out of the discussion, these are two quotes from "Metallic Cartridge Reloading" 3rd edition:
10 mm page 307: " Useable case capacity ... is about 14.6 grains of water."
41 mag page 310: "Useable case capacity ... is about 20.8 grains of water."
There is no possible way the 10mm is the ballistic equivalent of the 41 mag. Actual chronographed velocities from a 4" ported Taurus Titanium Tracker:
Federal 250 grain factory Cast Core 1055 fps
maximum handload 250 grain WFLNGC Cast Performance 1265 fps.
Weight of Titanium Tracker with Hogue Monogrip 25 ounces. I replaced the factory Ribber grip because while "cushiony", they need an adapter behind the trigger guard and it beats the index finger of my right hand unmercifully. Taurus firearms have a deseved reputation for poor quality and their customer service is not poor it is non exsistent. I lucked out and got a revolver with no issues. It is not a S&W but no other manufacturer makes a 5 shot 41 mag on an L frame.
When discussing the 10mm vs.the 41 Mag they are not equal ballistically but the real question is do you need the extra power? Where I wander in the back of beyond I need the incremental increase.

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Campfire Ranger
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I've never owned a 41 Mag, but I have had a (fair) bit of experience with the 10mm at various different pressure levels in the Glock 20 and 29. Great cartridge, and even with the hot Buffalo Bore fodder, quite shootable, even in the compact Glock 29.


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Originally Posted by bobmn
There is no possible way the 10mm is the ballistic equivalent of the 41 mag.

You�re absolutely right; on paper. But for most things you�re going to hunt, the difference will never be noticed. Not until you get to really large animals do you see the big divide between the two cartridges. On deer at reasonable ranges, I�d challenge anyone to show me a true practical difference�Place similar constructed bullets in the same spot and you�ll get the same response.

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Maybe, Kevin. The hottest pressure tested loads I can find for the 10mm run about 1150-1170 fps. with a 200 gr. bullet.
In the 41 Magnum, 210 gr. loads with slightly longer barrels run 1400-1425 fps.
As far as penetration goes, I've punched through 3 end to end 2.5 gal water jugs with Double Taps 200 gr. wide flat points in the 10. That's what the standard swagged lead loads from the .44 Magnum do. The same stuff Elmer Keith used to shoot through the frontal plates on big range bulls. Just what anyone would need more penetration for is beyond me. E

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Campfire Outfitter
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Give me a .41 , a supply of W296, and gas checked 250gr WFNs anyday....

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I like them both, have 3x M57s and a Kimber Combat II 10mm. Like them all, FWIW.

The M57s are a bit more powerful, somewhat more accurate than my 10. I get about 1200 fps from 180 grain bullets in the 10; about 1300 w/ 215 gr hard cast bullets in the .41.

I hate an either/or choice; get both. In .41, I'd sure recommend a no-dash M57. I'm please w/ the Kimber 10; the Eclipse is a fine pistol also (have had a 4" .45 Eclipse for eight years now, and it's great). If pushed hard, I'd get the .41 first...

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Campfire Tracker
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To each his own. I do not own a .44 mag or larger handgun. I do not even own a .357. I do own a sh*tpot full of handguns. I shoot handguns for fun, not punishment. I have levers in a 16" .32 Win and a 18" Marlin GG in .45-70 if I need "more power".

I do have .41's in a 4 5/8" Blackhawk and a ported 2 3/4" SS Taurus belly gun. I also have a 10mm in a Glock G20.

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Thomas what gun do you like?

On the Tracker, had one. I sure wished in the past S&W would have done a 41 on an L frame, SS/4" or a GP100 by Ruger in 4"...

Trade off - 5 or 6 shots of 'more power' vs. up to triple on hand...

croldfort, give me your take between the Ruger Shorty and the G20...both handy and useful no doubt.

Heard some in Alaska carry the Glock for Bears...1300/200 sounds very interesting - can't expect much more in an auto short of a Wildey in AutoMag. Too heavy and I'd imagine a good bit of back thrust and muzzle rise to boot.

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A Wildey and an Automag are not one and the same



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IC B3

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Having both, my 41 gets far more use than the 10mm. I have taken hogs with both, and found I didn't need the higher capacity of a semi, so to me that took the 10mm out of the mix compared to my 41. The 10 worked fine, but I reload all my rounds, and find 41 much easier to load for, plus cheaper components doesn't hurt. I also can shoot farther with my 41, which is nice when deer season rolls around. I have never lost a deer with my 41, and lately it has replaced my 30-30 in use out to ~125 yards. For me, a hunter and steel shooter, the 41 wins hand down based on versatility and cost per round.


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Originally Posted by 65BR
Not looking to compare ballistics, BTDT.

Curious what you guys who have used both have to say about these two.

Factory ammo more ltd in 10mm?

Like to hear from those who have taken deer/hogs or larger game w/10mm.

Thanks for replies.
Naturally, the .41 can be loaded hotter, and with heavier bullets having superior sectional density.

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just out of curiousity went back and looked at some of my notes.
out of a buckeye shooter blackhawk in 10mm:
with 200 grain xtp And AA#9
1.1318
2.1302
3.1305
4.1290
5.1301
6.1295fps
out of a redhawk .41magnum with a 215 grain bullet
1.1289
2.1381
3.1173
4.1285
5.1277
6.1242 fps different powder in the redhawk, and cast bullet
I got to thinking about this a little more, and i would summarize it this way. With the .41, you can use much heavier bullets than the 10mm. With the 10mm, you can go down to 135 grain, but i haven't seen any 250 grain like with the .41mag. And the 10mm casing is just more efficient.

Last edited by RoninPhx; 09/11/11.

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65BR Offline OP
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JWP, yeah, should have typed Wildey OR AMP.

Good info there on the loads for 10mm.

I watched a youtube vid of deer kills w/Glocks in 10 and 45 and with spine shots the 10 was very effective, DRT, but many ran w/little signs of being hit, not sure how far they ran, NOR more importantly what bullet was used.

I'd reckon a flat tippped heavy in a 10 would give the most 'shock effect' or good energy transfer showing more reaction on hits. Maybe not, but I'd expect it. I am thinking those kills were likely done using 180 HPs but just a guess.

No doubt 210s are proven in 41s and the heavier and wider slugs only seem to do better...assuming chamber length houses them and the twist is fast enough for the weight. I know mfg. vary twist rates.

A 250 +/- seems potent in a 41.

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You don't have to worry about heavies, as in 250-305 grain bullets, in a .41 Magnum. I shoot many 300s in my guns and with full loads, as in 19.0 grains of H110 they stabilize just fine. One of the posters over on the S&W forum was saying one day that a Smith would not stabilize a 300 grain bullet because the twist was too slow... I posted several pics of 50 yard groups from a 6" 657 and a 5.5" Gary Reeder Custom Ruger and the holes were nice and round and about 3" groups...

One question on the 10mm when used with heavy loads in revolvers...are the any bullet pull issues since the bullet cant be roll crimped?

Bob


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Originally Posted by 65BR
Thomas what gun do you like?

On the Tracker, had one. I sure wished in the past S&W would have done a 41 on an L frame, SS/4" or a GP100 by Ruger in 4"...



I am running a NM Blackhawk. I had swapped the 4 5/8" barrel for 7 1/2" at one point to pick up some speed, but I didn't like the way it handled.
I'd love to find one of the 4" Redhawk that used to be offered...

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Two legged critters....10MM
Four legged critters...41 Mag.

I like them both smile

Gunner


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Campfire Kahuna
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That's pretty much the same results & conclusion I came up with in all my testing with both calibers. I love my Model 57 S&W but I usually end up carring my Glock 20 with the 200XTP bullet with AA-9 because of the round capacity or my Kimber 10mm because of size & still more rounds than my Model 57...
Originally Posted by RoninPhx
just out of curiousity went back and looked at some of my notes.
out of a buckeye shooter blackhawk in 10mm:
with 200 grain xtp And AA#9
1.1318
2.1302
3.1305
4.1290
5.1301
6.1295fps
out of a redhawk .41magnum with a 215 grain bullet
1.1289
2.1381
3.1173
4.1285
5.1277
6.1242 fps different powder in the redhawk, and cast bullet
I got to thinking about this a little more, and i would summarize it this way. With the .41, you can use much heavier bullets than the 10mm. With the 10mm, you can go down to 135 grain, but i haven't seen any 250 grain like with the .41mag. And the 10mm casing is just more efficient.

Last edited by chlinstructor; 09/13/11.

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Campfire Kahuna
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BTW, I also have the Ruger Buckeye Special in 10mm/38-40 & I love that gun!!! And to clarify my load testing data on 10mm vs .41 mag, I am using a 220gr LFN LBT Hardcast bullets in my 41 mag. Also use a 250gr WFN LBT bullet but they just have too much recoil! I might as well step up to my Ruger Custom Clements Super Blackhawk in 44 mag with 280gr or 300gr WFN LBT bullets if I want a heavier load with less recoil. My Model 57 S&W is much lighter than my Super Blackhawk 44, thus more recoil. And the 10mm load using 200gr XTP bullets & AA-9 is much more managable on the recoil out of my Glock 20. Not to mention 1 magazine carries 15 rounds.... grin

Last edited by chlinstructor; 09/12/11.

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Originally Posted by RoninPhx
just out of curiousity went back and looked at some of my notes.
out of a buckeye shooter blackhawk in 10mm:
with 200 grain xtp And AA#9
1.1318
2.1302
3.1305
4.1290
5.1301
6.1295fps
out of a redhawk .41magnum with a 215 grain bullet
1.1289
2.1381
3.1173
4.1285
5.1277
6.1242 fps different powder in the redhawk, and cast bullet
I got to thinking about this a little more, and i would summarize it this way. With the .41, you can use much heavier bullets than the 10mm. With the 10mm, you can go down to 135 grain, but i haven't seen any 250 grain like with the .41mag. And the 10mm casing is just more efficient.



I shoot a 230 flat point hard cast out of my M-57, 4" that clocks about 1330 FPS and a 170 JHC that clocks 1536 FPS. The Rem factory 210 grainer clocks inthe mid 1300 FPS range also




I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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