Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders 777, Black Horn or Pellets

Injuries happen all the time: CVA Gun Cases.

As far as "plunger" or pull-cock actions, that covers a lot of ground from Knight to White to Gonic, etc., etc. There have been all kinds of 209 adapters, both OEM and aftermarket with some very poorly thought out. You'd need a racing form to track all of them. No powder manufacturer could possibly look to accept liability for a rifle they have never seen, had no hand in manufacturing, and did not sell. If you read the warning on a bottle of T7 or Pyrodex, you'll get the idea in a hurry.

Of course you always wear eye protection, if you want to protect your eyes. I can't think of a single commercial shooting range that lets you shoot without eyes and ears. People do of course shoot all the time without eye protection and there have been injuries from bolster screws, #11 caps, musket caps, and a lot of bleeding foreheads from scopes as well.

The conversion kit sold by Knight is right here: Knight 209 Conversion Kit. It uses red full plastic jackets.

Blackhorn 209 publishes tips for getting the best ignition: BH 209 Ignition Guidelines.

No question, it does work best in sealed actions: Savage 10ML-II, T/C Omega, etc. If you are using the red full plastic jacket conversion, whether MK-85 / LK-93 / Knight Wolverine, the hammer just crushes the red jacket, confounding those who would like to re-use them. It is one beefy spring, to be sure. If someone has managed to shoot a red plastic jacket 209 out of their Knight pull-cock, do they have a name?

Regardless, of course you wear eye protection. Now if someone thinks that 209 primers go flying out of their pull-cock muzzleloader, rather than just crying "warning Will Robinson" . . . take a couple of minutes to post a YouTube video to properly inform your fellow shooters, rather than just making unsupported statements.

unsupported statements like you make all the time? First by reviewing CVA muzzleloaders and then ripping them apart when you get on Savages payroll?

Do i dare post the blown up links to the savage ML.


Hell ive had an 209 adapter explode off my gun due to the person doing the machining, changing the original design and not informing the company.

shooting bh209 in a plunger style muzzleloader is just plain dangerous.

You might consider informing Tony Knight, Del Ramsey of MMP sabots, and DOC White of your "discovery."

I got a Lehigh Gem II breech plug for my Knight Disc Extreme for using Blackhorn 209. A fellow in here advised me to get one. I have absolutly NO blow back at all with it. Not sure if they make one for your model or not, but would be worth checking into...

I just knew old Randy couldn't make it through this post without a CVA bash.

You won't hear it from Western Powders. As a matter of fact, Western Powders called me today and informed me that 1)no, they have not witnessed any issues and further that Don Luhr did a goodly amount of shooting at General Dynamics with Blackhorn 209 before it hit the market . . . with an MK-85, and no issues.

No powder company can assume liability for obsolete firearms. As for the legacy costs associated with all the Enfield style frontloaders produced over the last 25 years, there is no logic in chasing the countless variables involved.

There are very simple steps anyone can take. 1) Wear eye protection. We all should be anyway, and fragile percussion caps, much less 209 primers, can generate debris as can blackpowder and other propellants as well. Of course there is flying debris, what would you expect from organic blackpowder that leaves 50% of itself behind as solid residue?

2) 209 primers themselves do not comport to any standards. Battery cup anvil primers vary widely in strength, so use a tougher 209 not prone to flying apart such as a Federal 209A.

3) Hammer configuration from pull-cock actions vary. Many have generously large shrouds that ensconce the primer or cap . . . a good thing. Others are flap hammers with no shroud that allow for more debris.

4) Hammer springs themselves vary in strength, many age, corrode, and suffer from low-maintenance or no maintenance. A twenty year old spring rusting way in the garage cannot be expected to be nearly as strong as a proper hammer spring in good condition.

5) You can't prove a negative, yet all there are are various unsubstantiated reports. Wear protective eyewear and pay attention.

6) There are also non-factory parts, modified parts, lightened mainsprings, and aftermarket parts that have been both introduced and discontinued over the years. If you are playing with a twenty year old, rusty muzzleloader, it only makes sense to use extra caution.

Blackhorn 209 is at its best with sealed action, current production inlines used with full strength 209 shotshell primers. No question about it. Use of Blackhorn 209 in an obsolete, pull-cock frontloader requires a little more attention to detail and a muzzleloader in proper operating condition.

It is an approved blackpowder sub by T/C, BPI, Traditions, Knight, and Savage Arms. Now, if any of these folks have inlines that are unsuitable for Blackhorn 209, they have failed to warn anyone about it.