Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Bear self defense with a hand gun...

Bears can hit speeds up to about 35MPH. In a head on charge, lead is important. How much lead does one need to hit bear in the head with the first shot? Something to consider and quite frankly I don't have an answer.

Maybe someone of here does who's been there, done that.

If heading towards you, no lead is necessary. If running parallel to you, lots of lead is needed, but then is it really charging you if it's running parallel to you? All angles of approach from one to the other extreme (parallel to direct) will vary as to how much lead is necessary, the closer to direct, the less lead being needed.

The more proximate the animal is, also, the less lead is a necessity. At bear attack ranges, lead is probably not an issue at all for this reason.

What TRH said with one possible caveat of steep terrain. If it's tearing down a hill at you with the grade different than where you're standing there would be an angle involved. Though, as TRH also observed, at "charge" ranges there may be little practical difference.

Different take/question on an old used up subject. Kinda interesting.

I know that at 200 yards I have to lead a coyote about 9' if he's running all out. Read the math somewhere and successfully used it many times. So figure your handgun bullet is going less than a third as fast as my .22-250 but your range is shorter it would end up being about 2.7 feet at 20 yards. That's ROUGH ROUGH math. Is it better than nothing? Your guess is as good as mine.

CB

Not many have ever HAD to it, Thank God!

Lead on an animal that is trying to make you lunch = ZERO!
More likely , one would be hard pressed to get the gun out of the leather in time to get it into his mouth before he chomps down.

Attacks happen so fast, the better use of the pistol is to put oneself out of his misery after the critter has left the scene.

Apparently you're mistaken, as it seems several successful defenses against griz with firearms (including handguns) have been documented.

Professional Hunters in Africa know to get down on one knee when faced with a Lion charge so as to minimize as much of the elevation aspect of shooting an animal moving at high speed. If the animal is coming at you and you are standing, there is SOME lead that needs to be applied, but I can't tell you how much. Depends on the any number of things, the height of the animal, your height, speed of the animal, size of the target and lastly the ballistics of the weapon you're firing.

Really, the best way to figure this out, is to assemble a moving target to replicate as much of the situation as possible. I've seen this done by putting a car on jack stands, then rigging a pully system to use the cars wheels to power the pully that pulled the simulated Lion. Saw this years ago at a shooting contest for double guns. It was rather clever and worked remarkably well.

If you really think you could be facing such a situation, then it's worth your effort to construct such a monstrosity.

But you need to be very realistic; are you REALLY capable of putting ONE shot precisely where it needs to be under such circumstances? In a charge situation, I would say that 99.9% of all shooters are probably better armed with bear spray than a handgun. Certainly there are some who can get it done with a handgun or a rifle, but there are far more who can�t. Just be-bop over to Youtube and look at all the Professional Hunters that botch the shot; AND THAT�S THEIR FRIGGIN JOB!!

vs how many bear attacks that went terribly bad. Armed or not.

Granted, anything is better than your bare hands or a sharp stick...

plus, if you're in the Lower 48, that bear better have powder burns on it or your troubles are just beginning.

Interesting. I just talked to a firend of mine at noon who is a retired guide and outfitter. I asked him about lead from about 25 yards in a full out bear charge. He said pretty much what you said, a person will never get their weapon out of the holster to fire the first shot at 25 yards or less and even if they did there's no hand gun on earth that will drop bear at that range before he gets you. He said the best bear stopper at close range is a twelve gauge shotgun but at that close range you might not even get the shotgun in play before the bear gets you. He said people simply do not realize how fast a bear is, inside of 25 yards. My friend, in the day, put down many a bear so he has some experience.

DD, I think your friend is exaggerating somewhat, or at least not giving you a full answer.

Yes, grizzly bears are extremely quick. If you walk up on one protecting a carcass, the charge will come from inside 25 yards and will be so fast your head will spin (right before he bites it off...). But many encounters occur at that range that don't involve an immediate charge, and you'll have time to unlimber your slug gun or unholster your sidearm. I have unslung my shotgun more than a few times when bears were in the 25-50 yard range, and once inside of 25. Handguns can be deployed equally fast, as can bear spray.

The key is knowledge of bear behavior and habitat, and keeping your eyes and ears open.

I know of one Montana ranger who drew his .357 Magnum while the bear was on top of him, and managed to kill the bear. Range between you and the bear is not the primary consideration when you have to act to deter/abort a bear attack.

35mph is roughly 51fps; which means the bear will be there in about 1.5 seconds. A fast guy with a sufficient gun could get off a shot in time; but I�ll agree with him that inside of 25 yards your chances of putting that ONE shot exactly on the spot are extremely slim. Your chances are much better with bear spray than a handgun; unless you�re Robby Leatham.

As to his assertion that a handgun won�t do that job�you should know better; that�s just BS. As for using a shotgun? More BS. Shotguns against dangerous game have been pretty much a disaster in Africa. And since a Grizzly bear is ABOVE anything on the food chain in Africa, I�d say that the use of something that has been a proven failure even on leopard is nearly guaranteed to be a failure on something like a Griz.

Your best defense against a Griz is not to encounter one. Put the damn bells on our clothing, make noise, and know where you�re going. For the most part the people who are mauled by bears are the incredibly stupid and ignorant. Just don�t be an idiot and you�ll be fine.

When shooting under threat, whether human or animal, hold somewhat low. Natural instinct is to take too coarse a bead, holding up too much front sight, such that in relation to the front sight, the shots tend to go high.

As to the lead required on a running shot, it's moot, don't take it. Lots of line-of-sight rate/crossing shots are difficult under perfect circumstances, let alone under duress. As others here have said, not much need for such a shot in self defense. For the frontal shot, another matter altogether. Hold low, keep shooting.

You might also want to consider filing down the front sight...

File it all the way off and smooth it out real nice.

I don't know about Africa never been there but shotguns with slugs seem to work around here. Many government hunters use them for close in work around here. But whatever.

When that adrenaline is pumping anything can be hard to put down. But again whatever.

DD, you really should stick to stuff you know about.

Not hunting and the outdoors..

a little KY on it might be a good idea, too

that would pretty much eliminate all of his posts.

+ 1

Well said, Kevin.

Never can have enough "what if" bear threads.......