Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Bear self defense with a hand gun...

Stephen Herrero wrote a great book about bear attacks, how to avoid them, and what to do in the event of one. He has studied bear behaviour and specific attacks and provides case studies for different attack scenarios. I think everyone recreating in bear country should read it. The book goes into great detail for both black bear attacks and grizzly attacks.

He has a section on defense where he analyzes firearms. It's been awhile since I read it (and my copy is continually out on loan!) but here's some of what I remember. He prefers large caliber rifles (duh!). If I recall he also is a fan of the shotgun, but that has never been a viable option for me (honestly, who is packing a stricly defensive long gun other than a guide). He discusses pistols and bears shot with them with some contempt, both in difficulty of the shot and effectiveness of the round. In his estimation the 44 mag is the minimum effective cartridge. He says to shoot a charging bear in the shoulder. It is a larger/softer target than the skull and breaking the bones there will slow the bear down and buy time.

The best thing about a 12 ga?
It's already in your hands.
( unless it's leanin against the tree and you got you pants down...LOL "

I have always adhered to Capstick's advice:
#1 shot...
still plenty big and lots more of 'em to make the pattern dense!

FWIW, when a shot gun is mentioned by those that actually know what's going on, i.e. NOT Derby Dude, it is a 12 ga. loaded with slugs.

The Alaska Department of Fish and Game, recently issued this bulletin:

In light of the rising frequency of human/grizzly bear conflicts, the Alaska Department of Fish and Game is advising hikers, hunters, and fishermen to take extra precautions and keep alert of bears while in the field.

"We advise outdoorsmen to wear noisy little bells on their clothing so as not to startle bears that aren't expecting them. We also advise outdoorsmen to carry pepper spray with them in case of an encounter with a bear.

It is also a good idea to watch out for fresh signs of bear activity. Outdoorsmen should recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear manure:

Black bear manure is smaller and contains lots of berries and squirrel fur.

Grizzly bear manure has little bells in it and smells like pepper."

Officially, the millionth time that has been posted on an internet hunting forum..

I believe Capsticke did indeed like the shotgun (Win Model 12 IIRC) for trailing up wounded leopards and such. I would bet everything I own that faced with a charge by a large bear he'd want a rifle. (I'd guess his .470 double)

He also advocated wearing a football helmet and a leather jacket when following up on leopard........

yep, and a "leatherneck" LOL
but one can't argue pellet count too much.
00 only equals 12 pills

Herrero's book was pretty good when it first came out in the 80's, but it's outdated. I would certainly recommend it as a part of a well-rounded bear aficionado's library, but for more up-to-date information and advice, I'd recommend J. Gary Shelton's books, including Bear Attacks: The Deadly Truth.

Bwahahaha

I'm thinking slugs myself. Hard to beat almost an ounce of lead at about 1800 feet per second.

Hold what you got, drop down to there level and shoot straight, I would use the biggest meplat bullet in 50 cal. I could load.
Dont think speed would be king in this instance, but moderate velocity and well placed shots from a heavy for caliber bullet is what I hope will save my hide if ever charged by a bear, hog or cat.

Gunner

Yeah, if just 1% of those bears really ended up attacking people, we'd suspect they had been recruted by Al Queda.

I do some guiding every year in the Thorofare country and here on the ranch. Both of which are grizzly habitat. Many of the guides in the thorofare don't carry a long gun and some not even a handgun.

I carry a pre-64 '06 with 220s, and a ghost ring sight on top. I've never had to shoot a charging bear. I did have some communication with Phil Shoemaker and he thought it'd do the job.

Most of the camps in the thorofare have shotguns for bears. They really aren't for stopping charging bears. And they aren't loaded with buckshot or slugs. Use your imagination for the rest. It of course is something I wouldn't do because it is illegal.

That said when the issue of stopping bears does come up many of the guides and outfitters do say the shotgun with buckshot or slugs would be best. However, almost none of them have ever done it. Most bears that I hear about being killed in defense are done so with a hunting rifle or even handgun.

So when looking for a stopping gun for myself I looked at what the folks who have actually done it carry. How many bear hunting guides in Alaska carry shotguns/handguns as stopping guns?

While I haven't had to shoot one yet, we have several close grizz encounters every year. Most of these the bear is moving slowly checking things out. The day one decides to come too close is when we'll see how well my choice works. In the case of the extremely close range, rapid attack you'd better hope your companion has your back. And that situation may in fact be a good case for a handgun, along with other times when it's all you can really carry. Those close range surprise encounters are also why I like having my blue heeler with me because they don't happen then. She goes hunting with me quite a bit. Here she is on the sheep hunt last year.



Sorry for getting so far off track.

Hi Kevin,

1.5 seconds is not a lot of time considering it takes the human brain .75 seconds to process the perception of a threat.

As in all things in life that can cause danger to me, I practice avoidance. While I do fish in the High Sierra where bears are as common as ants at a picnic, I do not tempt fate.

Were I to venture into wilderness areas, I would take a 1911A1 because it's easy to carry, quick to battery, offers many quick follow-up rounds, and recoil is manageable providing sight picture retention. But I'm talking black bears. Were I to venture where girz roams, I'd feel a whole lot better with an 870.

While not always true, it does seem to me that most people place themselves in danger by not using the most powerful thing known to man: the human brain. During one fishing trip to Mammoth Lakes, I witnessed people with video cameras chasing after a bear. That was a mauling waiting to happen.

When I see bears I give them right-of-way. I would much rather have a live & let live outcome. But when I fish with my kids, I will protect them. And the only way I can protect them is my surviving. If a bear were to kill me, what would happen to my kids??? My kids know to stand behind me and slowly back away.

In CA it is legal for fisherman to carry handguns while fishing. I believe we need a national law that allows fisherman to carry weapons while fishing in all national parks. To my way of looking at life, the right to life is a natural right.


Take care,

R

derby_dude,

you're right on the money. I couldn't agree more.


Stay safe,

R

Bear spray is marketed as a viable defense for bears. But I am not sold on it because governmental agents prefer shotguns to bear spray.

To my way of looking at bear defense, if the best bear defense is identified, anything else is less than best. I would want to use the best to save the lives of my kids and me.

Bear spray should be used in ideal conditions. If the wind is blowing in the user's face, s/he will become incapacitated by it. I would not want to become incapacitated were a wild animal threatening the lives of my kids and me.

As in a self-defense incident, a good guy should never surrender tactical advantage. This is why I would never turn my back to any wild animal than can kill me nor would I ever run. However, I will back away slowly and give it everything it wants except our lives. Hell, I'd even make trout almondine for it if that's what it wants.


R

Back in the day (1980's), Alberta F&G and Parks Canada did conjoint firearms training. A buddy of mine and I did it while he was working as a summer student on a U of Alberta research project. Shotguns were Mossberg pump 12-gauges, with slugs. IIRC they were CIL 1-oz Foster-type slugs. Targets were "charging" bear silhouettes on a fast-running pulley. You had to drop to one knee and put 3 shots into the charging bear target in about 3 seconds to pass the course. These wildlife mgmt agencies had a pretty good record for putting bears on the ground with slug guns. I carried a Win Model 12 with 1 oz. slugs for years as my bear defense firearm as a result of that learning experience. Fortunately never had to shoot a bear, but I did put a couple slugs into the ground at a black bear that was looking at me like I was lunch one time while flyfishing in the Swan Hills.

The only bear I killed in that time frame was with a borrowed sporterized .303 Brit mil-surp rifle in my neighbor's garden (he had an ag tag for it, it was all legal) but I would have cheerfully used my Model 12 for that job. I've killed a dozen deer or more with shotguns and slugs and based on the damage on field autopsy on each one, I'd have no problems using a slug gun on angry bears.

By the 90's, the rangers in Kananaskis Country were carrying Remington M700's in 338 Win Mag, with open sights. No handguns. The K-country fishcops apparently weren't happy with their slug guns for grizzly control, but I never saw any data or even "official" anecdotal evidence justifying the switch from slug guns.

There's some good evidence for the efficacy of pepper spray on bears. Gary Shelton's books give some of it.

The advantage of bear spray, IMHO, is its portability. You can carry two cans of spray on your belt more easily than you can a large caliber handgun, and there are a lot of times that a rifle or shotgun needs to be put down for a moment (Ever try to take a dump with a shotgun slung over your shoulder, for example? I have. It can get messy.)

The best bear sprays are very concentrated and shoot a tight stream rather than a spray. You can spray it upwind in even a moderately stiff breeze effectively.

Not off track at all. Good information by someone who has experience in bear country. The dog is an excellent idea.