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Hi Doc,

I have tried to reason my way through bear spray. If it does have efficacy, why? Is it the dense plume of fog that scares it off? Is it the sound of discharging spray that provides efficacy? Or does a bear sense pain from concentrated oleoresin capsicum?

I have sprayed a threatening dog with LE grade OC & it didn't seem to phase it. In contrast, I did spray a suspect who wanted to fight me with OC spray. He surrendered before he could say that he wanted to surrender.

Without knowing why bear spray works, I think it might be dangerous to extrapolate effects of OC spray on nearly all humans to bears. Having had to endure the most unpleasant training of it sprayed in my eyes, I would not want to find myself incapacitated by it with a man eater in my midst.

Just as in self-defense, my preferred plan is avoidance. Were I to learn bears are working an area I want to fish, I'd find another fishing hole. And in the Sierra, there are more fishing holes than bears, thank God.


Take care,

R

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Anybody that has LE experience with pepper spray will tell you it's a messy proposition and if they have any real experience at all, they will sure as hell admit it don't always work.

Guess who else admits it doesn't always work, on two legged critters and otherwise? The company that makes the schit.


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deflave,

OC spray does not work on approximately 10% of people. It also has little effect on those under the influence of PCP. Otherwise it will work. It worked on me, and it worked on the only combative suspect whom I squirted.

I am skeptical of its purported efficacy on bears. While it might have dissuaded some bears, I would like to know precisely what dissuaded them. And I do know the effect it has on me, which is why I would be reluctant to use it except under ideal conditions; e.g., wind at my back. If I were to remotely think I could become incapacitated by it, I'd use a gun.


Stay safe,

R

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Quote
OC spray does not work on approximately 10% of people.


Based on my experience as an instructor and an end user, I would up that percentage, maybe double it.

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It also has little effect on those under the influence of PCP


...or those drunk our of their minds, on a number of stimulants, etc.

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Otherwise it will work.


Yeah, sometimes.

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It worked on me, and it worked on the only combative suspect whom I squirted.


It doesn't "work" on me (it serves to piss me off an closes my eyes for a very short period of time). It also doesn't work for schit on working dogs.

I don't carry the schit on my belt anymore and sure as hell wouldn't bet my safety on it in the woods (yes, I know bear spray and LEO OC are different).

George

Last edited by NH K9; 10/15/11.

�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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I dumped a whole can on a large Pitbull from about 6ft and barely got a reaction-------and not until the last third of the can. Not very inspiring performance.


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I wish I still have the pic (one of other handlers might) of our head trainer and his K9 walking through a cloud of OC and tear gas at training. The handler, obviously, has a mask on while the K9 just meanders through.....getting more and more pizzed with each step.

Dump a can of OC on any of our dogs and your just adding some seasoning to what they're about to taste grin .

George

Last edited by NH K9; 10/15/11.

�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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i've hosed a bear with bear spray. worked like a charm. i diddn't ask it why, tho...

seeing Phil Shoemaker vote for bear spray in THIS THREAD makes me think this experience was not a fluke


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I will, as always, defer to those who have experience with the bear spray as to how effective it is. If my azz was the potential meal, however, I believe I would still place my trust in lead.

George


�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Originally Posted by NH K9

Dump a can of OC on any of our dogs and your just adding some seasoning to what they're about to taste grin .

George


I can only imagine! grin

BTW, not trusting the spray, and knowing the fastest draw is the gun that's already in my hand, I DID have my pistol in my other hand---------something I would never do if spraying a person, but I quickly weighed the much lower liability with a worthless Pit against a huge set of teeth getting a hold of me!


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I'm another one who has no faith in chemical sprays of all kinds for stopping any determined assailant, human or otherwise. BTDT, and have paid dearly for it. Never again will any chemical spray be my opening move in any kind of serious confrontation with man or beast.
I believe bear spray can be a very appropriate choice for nuisance bears or other animals. Since lots of bear caused injuries are apparently from this type of bear problem, it's probably worth having for such things. E

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Originally Posted by Eremicus
I'm another one who has no faith in chemical sprays of all kinds for stopping any determined assailant, human or otherwise. BTDT, and have paid dearly for it. Never again will any chemical spray be my opening move in any kind of serious confrontation with man or beast.
I believe bear spray can be a very appropriate choice for nuisance bears or other animals. Since lots of bear caused injuries are apparently from this type of bear problem, it's probably worth having for such things. E



Spot on "E"..... Spray for nuisance bears, but leave the condiments at the table for a determined attacker



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this was a LONG time ago, before they started adding pepper to the sprays for humans. Another guy and i were having to fight this guy to get cuffs on him that was royally drunk. Had him on the ground and dumped most of a can of the I think cs spray directly in his face. It was running like water down his face.
He was laughing cause we were slow close it was gagging the other guy and i, not a good situation.
We drove him back to the jail and he was laughing all the way as we had our heads out the window etc.
Now about an hour later he didn't think it was so funny and was begging for something to flush it out.
I wonder if a bear reacts that way?


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But it did work.

There seems to be a lot of dense-bobs on this thread who can't seem to process the fact that OC does work. Bear spray works. When you can't carry a gun, or can't carry enough gun, or suck with a gun, then carry bear spray. A $50 can of spray that you can use is infinitely better protection than a $800 gun you can't use.


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Originally Posted by RoninPhx
this was a LONG time ago, before they started adding pepper to the sprays for humans. Another guy and i were having to fight this guy to get cuffs on him that was royally drunk. Had him on the ground and dumped most of a can of the I think cs spray directly in his face. It was running like water down his face.
He was laughing cause we were slow close it was gagging the other guy and i, not a good situation.
We drove him back to the jail and he was laughing all the way as we had our heads out the window etc.
Now about an hour later he didn't think it was so funny and was begging for something to flush it out.
I wonder if a bear reacts that way?


It would depend upon how much a bear had drunk of what type of spirits. Bears guzzling Jack Daniels can become quite belligerent, especially while playing Texas Hold 'en. In contrast, bears are usually happy with a beer buzz so long as either the Cubs or Bears are winning.


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dla,

If bear spray does work, why?

Would you trust your life to it?


Thanks,

R

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Great advice for people who don't own guns and can't shoot one. But that hardly applies to those of us that post here. E

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Quote
There seems to be a lot of dense-bobs on this thread who can't seem to process the fact that OC does work.


Sometimes against some people....yep. I wouldn't bet from one person to the next if it will or won't nor would I hand my wife a can and consider her "safe". How many times have you used OC on someone?

Quote
Bear spray works


I have no personal experience, but it seems to have worked for some of our members. If it works for them (or you) then go for it.

Quote
When you can't carry a gun, or can't carry enough gun, or suck with a gun, then carry bear spray


I can carry a gun and I'll carry enough gun. If someone sucks with a gun they can practice. If it's a "nerve" thing that makes 'em suck, I doubt they'll be any cooler with spray.

You only have to make yourself happy, though.

George

Last edited by NH K9; 10/16/11.

�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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It works for two reasons, one of which was bit surprising to me:
(1) It is a nasty irritant (2) the "SWOOSH" noise surprises the bear.

I've seen a couple of videos where the bear starts turning before the spray actually hits him. Maybe it is a learned behavior from a skunk encounter - just a guess.

Bear spray has a better track record than handguns. Absolutely I trust my life to it. And it gives you a non-lethal way to deal with somebody's dog.

I'm not knocking hog-legs - they work. But $50 makes more sense for somebody who is only going to wander into the back country rarely and doesn't have the means or interest to shell out $800 - $1200 for a revolver and then the $ and time for 1k rounds of practice.

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dla,

Thanks for the info.

I'll be back in the Sierra this week huntin' brown trout. My primary strategy is avoidance, bear not trout although sometimes I think I'm avoidin' trout, too. Thank God, it's worked so far. The way I got it figured, and I ain't done a lot math lately, if I can carry a handgun, that's the way I'll go. I can't see my carrying a handgun & bear spray, too.

There is a healthy population of black bears in the Eastern Sierra. The wilderness belongs to them. I do not want to shoot a bear. I don't hunt them either. As long as they have no designs on us & they allow us to trespass unharmed into their domain, I prefer to leave 'em just like I find 'em.

There is an excellent trout fishin' hole I've fished that's at the base of the Eastern Sierra. I haven't taken a gun while fishing it because it ain't bear territory. A couple weeks ago I was walking to it a 0 dark thirty. Suddenly the thought came to me that it's classic mountain lion territory. I fear lion more than bear. When I fish it next week I'm thinking I might take a handgun.


Buena Suerte,

R

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carry an air horn. loud one.

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