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#5714619 - 10/15/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: Monashee]
Steve Redgwell Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Lowell, Ontario, Canada
US cartridges weren't as popular in Canada because we simply did not have them up here in as great a number as the 303.

The 303 was in service from before WWI until the 1950s as our primary military cartridge. Surplus and commercial 1895 levers, Rosses, Lee Enfield No 1s and No 4s were everywhere. The cartridge killed every critter roaming our part of the continent. Then there was a disturbance in the Force. Sometime in the 1960s, US ad men noticed that there were 20 million potential buyers living north of the border.

We started seeing more ads telling us that 30-30s and 303s weren't powerful enough for bear, moose and deer. The generation born in Canada in the 1960s was programmed by the boob tube to reject these lesser cartridges in favour of better cartridges like Lazzeronis, Weatherbys, and magnums of any type.

Canada started using a lot more US designed cartridges in the late 60s/early 70s. With the advent of cable television, satellite technology, etc, we got more of your programming. As a result, the US had more of an influence on what happened up here.

It's hard for most Canadians under 40 to understand, but the US had less impact on our lives before then. It's not that 308s or 270s weren't good cartridges, it's just that we didn't need them.

Put another way, how many Chevy's do you need in your driveway? The 308 for example, is just an updated rimless version of the 303. It manages about 200 fps more MV than a std 303 load. Handloads fired from a Ross or P14, match the 308 foot pound for foot pound.

When technology brought the US into our living rooms in the 1960s, our way of life changed for good here.
_________________________
Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
www.303british.com

Ctg/rifle books, ebooks, more!

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

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#5715108 - 10/15/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: Steve Redgwell]
ihookem Online   content
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 05/18/04
Posts: 1875
Loc: TAX HELL Allenton Wisconsin
Steve you are right. I saw this in Wisconsin for 20 years. It was 30-30, 300 sav. 32 Specials, 30-06. Then the big magazines came out. If it wasn't a magnum you were lucky the animal fell down at all. It calmed down about 8 yrs ago when I started seeing every other used rifle on the shelf was a mag. Seems at least down here on state side it's swinging totally the other way now. The 30-06 is way to big, " meat damage" is the buzz word. Now .243 win. are all over, and .223 rem., 22-250 rem. are being used with great results. I've seen pics of the damage with .22 calibers and got to say it makes mince meat of 300 lb hogs and white tails. Go figure. Cost of reloading supplies and recoil seems the reason.
_________________________
But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23

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#5715423 - 10/15/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: ihookem]
medicman Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 3576
Loc: Ontario Canada
"When technology brought the US into our living rooms in the 1960s, our way of life changed for good here."


I assume by saying "changed for good here" you mean changed permanently. It sure can not be described as a change for the positive. I know your affection for the old workhorse, this is just to clarrify for those under 40 who did not have the benefit of living pre USA influence.

Randy
a lover of rifles .312 smile
_________________________
Praise the Lord for full Salvation
Christ Still lives upon the throne
And I know the blood still cleansess
Deeper than the sin has gone
Lester Roloff

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#5715847 - 10/16/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: medicman]
n007 Online   content
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 2416
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
I have a hankering to buy a .270.

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#5717758 - 10/16/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: n007]
Steve Redgwell Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Lowell, Ontario, Canada
Yes, so I'll state it this way.

Quote:
When technology brought the US into our living rooms in the 1960s, our way of life changed permanently here.
_________________________
Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
www.303british.com

Ctg/rifle books, ebooks, more!

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

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#5719229 - 10/17/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: Steve Redgwell]
downwindtracker2 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 2678
Loc: B.C.
As a kid(I'm old enough to rember the first TVs,US channels only) I got a CIL catalogue,the 303 loading weren't that much off the 308 or 30-06.But,it is amusing the beliefs. In the elk camp next to me in the campground ,one of the hunters was hunting with loaned 30-06 pump instead of" wimpy 303". My answer was 30 caliber is a 30 caliber. I've clocked Winchester 180 at 2200+ in 303 and 2500+ in 30-06 carbine,for 100yard shot ,not much difference.I hunted with either a 338-06 or 338WM,which I said were the same.
_________________________
You can hunt longer with wind at your back

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#5719585 - 10/17/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: downwindtracker2]
medicman Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 3576
Loc: Ontario Canada
I just smile when I hear about that wimpy, underpowered 303. The person waxing eloquent is unaware of their ignorance. It is not a 300 mag, and that is just fine witth me.
_________________________
Praise the Lord for full Salvation
Christ Still lives upon the throne
And I know the blood still cleansess
Deeper than the sin has gone
Lester Roloff

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#5719818 - 10/17/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: medicman]
Steve Redgwell Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Lowell, Ontario, Canada
When the ad boys started their magnum campaign, the "Use enough gun!" mantra was pushed far beyond sensibility and rational expectations. They did a "bang up job", to be sure.

Magnums have a place when hunting longer ranges or against dangerous game. In Wisconsin, Ontario or New Brunswick, you rarely need something that powerful though. They recoil too much and are more expensive to feed.

Magnums mean more powder, different, more costly bullets and cases. It's harder to introduce new hunters to the sport when their shoulder may end up in the next county. Even loaded down, magnums still use expensive cases and more powder.

I suspect that's the reason why magnums are more frequently seen on the used rack. Once the shine has worn off, hunters realize that they made a mistake buying it and flog the thing for something else. The only winner is the gun shop.

I think that the majority of serious hunters use enough gun for the area where they live and the game. There's no reason for them to discuss the latest cartridge: they don't need it.

They don't need to discuss sectional density, bore diameter or energy transfer. Most are too busy taking game with old or anemic cartridges to bother with Internets debate or ad hype. Good for them.

Don't get me wrong; I think magnums have a place, but more magazine space should be used to educate hunters on what to buy. Hunters too, have a responsibility to learn what they need versus the latest craze.

This last statement usually falls on deaf ears. Chasing shiny things seems to be de rigueur these daze.
_________________________
Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
www.303british.com

Ctg/rifle books, ebooks, more!

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

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#5720050 - 10/17/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: Steve Redgwell]
the_shootist Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 19004
Loc: NW Ontario, Canada
Yep, my favourite 30 caliber magnum is the 30-06. PLENTY for everything I shoot. If I was "stuck" with a three aught three wink I'd survive, but there are a few more bullets to choose from in .308 over .312.
_________________________
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)

Brother Keith


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#5720152 - 10/17/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: the_shootist]
Steve Redgwell Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Lowell, Ontario, Canada
Definitely. If this was 30 years ago, we'd have 150s, 174s, 180s, 200s and 215s for the 303 British. No more. I usually take a 30-06 to camp and carry a 303 or 308 as a backup rifle.

.308 bullets are a more sensible choice nowadays. For deer, depending on the WMU, I carry a 44 Mag or a 308 bolt. The 308 is going away however, in favour of another lever.
_________________________
Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
www.303british.com

Ctg/rifle books, ebooks, more!

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

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#5720397 - 10/17/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: Steve Redgwell]
greydog Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/12/04
Posts: 2599
The impression I get is that the most popular deer cartridges in the east Kootenays, are:
1. The 270
2. 30/06
3. 308
4. 243
5. everything else.
50 years ago, the 303 would have been at the top of the list.
I have killed more deer with my no.4 MK1 than with evry other rifle I've owned, combined. These deer were taken with the 303 or, in the last 20 years, with the 30/40 Krag (I re-barreled it). By the way,it has also shown itself effective on elk, moose and black bears.
When I was 14 years old, my dad bought this rifle for me. I kind of wanted a 94 Winchester but he felt the added power of the 303 would make it more suitable. I'm glad he did. GD

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#5720513 - 10/17/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: Steve Redgwell]
1OntarioJim Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 08/09/05
Posts: 2846
Loc: N. Shore, L. Ontario
Steve,

Non-magnums may be fine for deer hunting but for moose they are not necessarily the best choice for a seasoned shooter. Almost everyone of my acquaintances who hunt the big lake country of north-western Ontario now use magnums and few of us are youngsters.

Don't know why but at one time it seemed to be common for moose not to show themeselves until they were within 50 or 60 yards. Now they are frequently seen at much longer distances. I don't think my calling has deteriorated so it must be something to do with the fact the lakes we hunt now are much bigger that where we hunted years ago.

When I hunt deer a shotgun is often used (because of regulations, not choice) or a relatively small caliber rifle.

Jim

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#5720553 - 10/17/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: 1OntarioJim]
Steve Redgwell Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Lowell, Ontario, Canada
If you're taking longer shots, then this is one of those times where magnums make sense. I don't know anyone in your hunting party, but I assume that they can comfortably take a shot at an extended range.

When we go moose hunting, we seem to hunt more clearcuts than years ago, but for those instances I stick with my 30-06. It's one of the reasons I take two rifles. The other is in case one becomes unusable.

This year, I took the 45-70. My longest shot in two of the spots we had scouted would have been 48 yd., according to my rangefinder. The longest shot in one other was 130 yd, across a clearcut. I could have used the 45-70, but took the 30-06. That didn't take moving around into consideration.

This goes back to what I said about hunters knowing where they'll be hunting. You know what rifle will do the job and choose accordingly.
_________________________
Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
www.303british.com

Ctg/rifle books, ebooks, more!

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

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#5720661 - 10/17/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: Steve Redgwell]
the_shootist Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 19004
Loc: NW Ontario, Canada
Steve,

Got a kick out of your extended ranges and using the 30-06. I had changed from a 30-06 to a 300 Magnum about 10-12 years ago, and it certainly was effective. I have since graduated back to the 30-06, and with the use of Barnes TSX, dropping a bullet weight and some of he new to me powders, I find the 30-06 only loses about 30 yards or so to the magnum. I have killed more game with a 30-06 and a 22LR than I have with any other, but I've carried one more too.

For me, and for moose or deer, the 168 TSX at 2900 has become my one bullet does everything load. I also have started with the 45-70, and also a 405 Winchester for shots under 200 yards.
_________________________
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)

Brother Keith


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#5720725 - 10/17/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: the_shootist]
Steve Redgwell Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Lowell, Ontario, Canada
For what we hunt, a 30-06 is all a fellow needs. That's not what companies that sell new stuff want to hear though. Modern bullets and powders have breathed new life into older cartridges like the 30-06 and that is a thumbs up to modern technology.

That said, new magnum rifle sales will continue. A year or two later, they will be back in the same store on the used rack. Hopefully, they will be traded for a rifle that is matched to what most people are hunting.
_________________________
Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
www.303british.com

Ctg/rifle books, ebooks, more!

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

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#5720781 - 10/17/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: Steve Redgwell]
savage62 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 6629
Loc: Mi
Hey my Grandfather started me out hunting with 303 and it does kill now my son got it and his son will be next . Its been pass down 5 times now grandson will be 6 times great gun. Just like the rest .I would go with 300 savage 250 savage also seem a bunch when I was in camps tn Quebec

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#5721130 - 10/17/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: savage62]
Steve Redgwell Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 2511
Loc: New Lowell, Ontario, Canada
A Savage 99 chambered in either cartridge would do the job quite handily. It would also add a touch of nostalgia and class to any hunt camp.

_________________________
Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
www.303british.com

Ctg/rifle books, ebooks, more!

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

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#5721179 - 10/17/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: Steve Redgwell]
medicman Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 3576
Loc: Ontario Canada
The guys I hunt with use the 30-06 in Northwestern Ontario. I do too from time to time, but this year my 303 will be the go to with the 7x57 being #2. Actually the moose still come in close to the call around here during the rut. Even slashes are only 300 yds or 400 yds and the 303 is up to the task if distances are known.

Patience is a benefit when calling or when stalking. The only places I have shot game over two hundred yds is in Africa. Here in NW Ontario it has been a long time since I have shot over 100, usually closer to 50.

Randy
_________________________
Praise the Lord for full Salvation
Christ Still lives upon the throne
And I know the blood still cleansess
Deeper than the sin has gone
Lester Roloff

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#5721441 - 10/17/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: medicman]
ihookem Online   content
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 05/18/04
Posts: 1875
Loc: TAX HELL Allenton Wisconsin
That Savage commercial reminds me of my dad. He bought a 300 Savage in 1956. Fresh out of the service in Utica NY. He payed 110 bucks for it. Still has it. Has not used it in 20 years though.
_________________________
But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23

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#5721516 - 10/17/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: ihookem]
Rug3 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/19/10
Posts: 1403
Loc: Columbia County New York State
My Dad's 300 Sav 99 was a Christmas gift to him from Mom in 1927. It came with three shells that took three deer. He shot his last buck with it in 1986 and then on December 10 he took a trip to Heaven from where he has not returned.

Your post makes me wonder what Mom paid for it.

Whatever it was, the ole 300 fed our family many a year. Fact is there is some V in the freezer left over from last year the ole 300 provided.

It appears to be plenty adiquate for fellow hunters South of your border and the 303 Brit has more whomp than it.

Any of you fellas hunted with the 303 Sav?

Jim
_________________________
Pro Life
Pro Traditional Marriage
Pro Second Amendment
Proud Upstate New Yorker

He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God. Micah 6:8

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#5722229 - 10/18/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: medicman]
1OntarioJim Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 08/09/05
Posts: 2846
Loc: N. Shore, L. Ontario
Randy,

The last four moose our camp has taken were shot at 378 yards, 455 yards, 475 yards and 250/275 yards. The rifles respectively were 30/378, .338 WM, 300 WM and 300 WSM (all lasered). The short range kill could have been made with an 06 but instead a 300 WSM was used. It put the bull down where it stood instead of allowing it to possibly travel the 60 or 70 feet it was from the water.

This is not to say we will never get another close range shot but in case the range is long we have the equipment which allows us to take the shot. Personally I prefer 50 yard shots at standing moose but we don't always get what we want.

Jim

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#5722272 - 10/18/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: medicman]
AJD Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 1986
Loc: Tates Hell, The Big Bend
Originally Posted By: medicman
"When technology brought the US into our living rooms in the 1960s, our way of life changed for good here."


I assume by saying "changed for good here" you mean changed permanently. It sure can not be described as a change for the positive. I know your affection for the old workhorse, this is just to clarrify for those under 40 who did not have the benefit of living pre USA influence.

Randy
a lover of rifles .312 smile


Ya'll need to send them Ruger #1's back home! whistle
_________________________
There is no accounting for taste.

Experience is a great thing as long as one survives it.

Barely making it is a whole lot more satisfying than barely not making it.

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#5722929 - 10/18/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: 1OntarioJim]
medicman Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 3576
Loc: Ontario Canada
Jim that is some long range moose shooting for sure. I doubt I would be up to the task. Obviously you and your crew are.

Randy
_________________________
Praise the Lord for full Salvation
Christ Still lives upon the throne
And I know the blood still cleansess
Deeper than the sin has gone
Lester Roloff

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#5723101 - 10/18/11 Re: What's the perferred deer cartridge for guys in Canada? [Re: medicman]
the_shootist Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 19004
Loc: NW Ontario, Canada
I figure anyone who can smoke a gemsbok at 500 facing away should be able to hook up a moose at those meagre distances. wink Remember my first one at 400yards with open sights???
_________________________
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23)

Brother Keith


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