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My primary deer rifle is a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle in .280, with a Sightron SII Big Sky 3-9x42 mounted in Talley lightweight rings (quite possibly the perfect deer rifle). A few years ago, Midway ran a clearance sale on Federal High Energy .280 ammo with 140gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets, so I bought 10 boxes. I've chrono'd the ammo through my 22" barrel, and if memory serves me correctly, MV was was over 2950 fps.

I've taken several deer with the ammo, and all have been one shot kills. This weekend, I was able to use the load again with similar results. Distance was 88 yards, and the deer dropped in his tracks. The bullet entered the front right shoulder broadside, but did not exit the other side. I was surprised by this, as every other deer taken with the load has made an entry and exit hole (with no recovered bullets).

Bullet was recovered on the opposite side, just under the hide. It passed through both shoulders completely, but stopped just short of passing through the hide. The internal cavity was a complete mess, although the impact shoulder wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.

Here are a few pics:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Initial bullet weight was 140gr, with a recovered weight of 116.8gr. I honestly thought bullet weight would be well over 125gr, but 83% weight retention with no separation of the jacket or core is about as good as I could ask for.

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No, you CAN ask for better. Barnes, for example at 95-100% weight retention being the norm, and also never a separation of core etc, since there ain't one.

Nice looking bullet mushroom, Glad you got a deer, got a picture of the buck?



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Looks like text book performance to me.


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The .280 is poison on deer and the TBBC is a damn fine bullet. That one is a great addition to the recovered bullet box. Congratulations on your buck.


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Originally Posted by orion03
Looks like text book performance to me.


If your textbook is old enough. Perfect performance, 1920-1980 style.

No exit wound when using a 280 on a mere deer? Sorry, not good enough. Not even sort of.


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I'm a Barnes fan also, but in defense of the TBBC, I've had two 140 Nosler Partitions from 7mmRemMags stopped in small deer after very little penetration. Of course, both were DRT and the ranges were short, less than 50 yards. Something about high speed and short range just doesn't work right.


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No exit wound when using a 280 on a mere deer? Sorry, not good enough. Not even sort of.


I agree with you to an extent. Yes, there was no exit wound, so you'll get no argument from me regarding that simple fact. However, the deer dropped in his tracks, so its hard to argue with performance. This is probably the 5th or so deer I have taken with the 140gr TBBC, and only one didn't drop (ran less than 30-40 yards).

Now, if I were hunting larger game, I would certainly be somewhat concerned. One must consider, though, that one example is anecdotal at best. In fact, its difficult to really take much from this except the bullet didn't separate and mushroomed almost perfectly.

As I mentioned, this is the only bullet I have recovered out of 5 or 6 animals. Does that mean the TBBC is the perfect bullet? No, but that certainly doesn't mean it is worthless, either! Besides, I'll take a dropped deer with no exit wound any day over an exit hole on a running deer. wink

Nevertheless, I have 6-7 more boxes of the stuff, so it doesn't look as though I'll be abandoning it anytime soon.

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All those years guiding brown bear hunts with TBBC's in my H&H and I never knew that they would'nt work whistle.


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I shot them at hogs and they work.

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I think your bullet did just fine. I shot a blackbuck ram at 60 yds with a .257 WBY, 110 grain accubond, and incredibly I had no exit wound. The bullet was under the skin, far side and expanded every possible micron and the internals looked like a hand grenade had been used. The animal dropped in its tracks.

I'd expect an exit wound, but for some reason it didn't happen. However, you couldn't have had any more internal damage. Strange performance, but not a bullet failure.

I like/expect an exit woumd, but sometimes things don't happen as expected.

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TBBC's are great bullets, to bad Speer thought they were gold!

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I'd expect an exit wound, but for some reason it didn't happen. However, you couldn't have had any more internal damage. Strange performance, but not a bullet failure.

I like/expect an exit woumd, but sometimes things don't happen as expected.


You make some very good points!

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Good job Jason. How's everything in Miledgevegas? Im glad someone is having good luck I've not had a chance to sit in a stand yet.


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Originally Posted by safariman
Originally Posted by orion03
Looks like text book performance to me.


If your textbook is old enough. Perfect performance, 1920-1980 style.

No exit wound when using a 280 on a mere deer? Sorry, not good enough. Not even sort of.


A lot of nonsense gets written on the internet... this takes the nugget of the month prize.


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Originally Posted by Jason280
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No exit wound when using a 280 on a mere deer? Sorry, not good enough. Not even sort of.


I agree with you to an extent. Yes, there was no exit wound, so you'll get no argument from me regarding that simple fact. However, the deer dropped in his tracks, so its hard to argue with performance. This is probably the 5th or so deer I have taken with the 140gr TBBC, and only one didn't drop (ran less than 30-40 yards).

Now, if I were hunting larger game, I would certainly be somewhat concerned. One must consider, though, that one example is anecdotal at best. In fact, its difficult to really take much from this except the bullet didn't separate and mushroomed almost perfectly.

As I mentioned, this is the only bullet I have recovered out of 5 or 6 animals. Does that mean the TBBC is the perfect bullet? No, but that certainly doesn't mean it is worthless, either! Besides, I'll take a dropped deer with no exit wound any day over an exit hole on a running deer. wink

Nevertheless, I have 6-7 more boxes of the stuff, so it doesn't look as though I'll be abandoning it anytime soon.


This is "strange" bullet performance to those who have not seen it, if they grew into hunting with guilding metal,thin jackets and antimony cores, both brittle and which shatter,giving rise to the notion that bullet disintegration and weight loss and dispersed energy from little fragments is the only thing that kills BG animals...maybe true to a point.....just that this type performance isn't seen too often unless you use bonded bullets like the old Bitterroot Bonded Core,the TBBC(which is a BBC copy),the Swift Aframe,or a Northfork.

This is pretty typical for these heavily jacketed,bonded core bullets.(The old BBC's were so good they trade in black market-type circles at the price of cocaine.Part of this is because they are no longer made;but mostly it is because they work extremely well).

And there is nothing dated about their performance,because animals have not changed a whit since these bullets were developed.I have been shooting animals with the Bitterroots for over 30 years now...performance is similar to the OP's 140 TBBC.Likely the BBC would have retained about 90%+....and not because they make for good pictures! grin but because the retained weight assists in pushing the broad mushroom forward....the OP's bullet retains lots of shank,and broad mushroom, which is "good".

In fact I will make a flat statement and say this type of bullet performance has given me more one shot,lights out DRT's,and anchoring hits, than any other design on game from brown bear down through deer sized stuff;and more consistent and reliable BG performance than anything else I have tried.The reason is you get very rapid expansion (every time)to a broad frontal area,which makes nasty wound channels, and enough weight retention to retain momentum and push a broad mushroom through a lot of tissue,pulping it (what kills),making for wide wound channels.Chest cavities are frequently pulped beyond recognition, especially when impact velocities are high;and off side shoulders are always smashed.Animals simply go nowhere with this type bullet placement and performance.

I have recovered some, but contrary to much popular and conventional wisdom,they do exit very frequently,especially at distance as velocity falls off, and I have seen them make holes in brown bear and elk you could stick a fist in,especially in the larger calibers.I have also broken the shoulders of grown up bull elk with 165 gr 30's started at 3250 from a 300 Win Mag....no recovered bullet;it exited.The last 160 gr BBC 7mm I fired at an elk traveled the full length of its' neck from behind and we recovered it under the jaw;it smashed vertebrae and pulped muscle along the way....expansion was over 60 caliber and retained weight still over 150 gr IIRC. It is here somewhere...


I doubt there is an expanding bullet made that can be reliably counted upon to exit every time.I don't use them myself,but pals have shown me enough Barnes X's recovered from game to demonstrate that where impact vels are high,or where they retain the petals,it seems they,too, will be recovered.

The only reason the OP's bullet did not exit,is because the rubbery hide on the off side stopped the broad mushroom...between where it entered,and where it stopped,there was a train wreck....no "trail",blood or otherwise,was needed.

I would not hesitate in the least to use the OP's rifle and load on anything commonly hunted in North America for which the 280 is suited. That includes elk, moose,and grizzly.YMMV.


Last edited by BobinNH; 10/25/11.



The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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I am one who always wants full penetration (hole in-hole out) and over the years have found that certain things make this goal diffecult.

First is to use too light a bullet. The 140 grain bullet in the .284 caliber is a mid-range, bordering on a light-for-caliber bullet weight. Second is excess velosity. In my experience any velosity much above 3000 fps invites underpenetration (mostly enough to kill well, but may not exit). In this case the short range and high initial velosity meant a striking speed very near that level. A lightly constructed bullet can make penetration iffy even with proper velosity and weight. In this case the bonded bullet did NOT have this handicap.

Due to the high velosity, close range and light bullet.....I believe that 1 out of 5 or 6 bullets not exiting was pretty much what to expect. The bullet performed perfectly....as well as could be expected. If that same shot were taken (with a similar designed bullet) with say a 160 grain bullet at 2850-2900 fps I'd expect that a pass through would be almost guaranteed (bullets do strange things so no combination will ALWAYS work).

The design of the bullet is not the problem. As some others have pointed out, even the "solid" bullets fail to exit when velosities are driven to extreem levels. In fact, the tendancy of most to try to shoot the lightest possible bullet at the highest possible speed when using the "solids" (alphabet bullets) makes a pass througb possibly MORE likely at extreemly close range.

I really like the bonded bullets in general (Trophy Bear Claws and A-Frames are favorites) and this is Text book performance. As to the mono-metal "solids" I place them in the same class as steel shot in shotguns.....a gimic created by anti-hunting groups to hurt our sport.


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Originally Posted by TexasRick
I am one who always wants full penetration (hole in-hole out) and over the years have found that certain things make this goal diffecult.

First is to use too light a bullet. The 140 grain bullet in the .284 caliber is a mid-range, bordering on a light-for-caliber bullet weight. Second is excess velosity. In my experience any velosity much above 3000 fps invites underpenetration (mostly enough to kill well, but may not exit). In this case the short range and high initial velosity meant a striking speed very near that level. A lightly constructed bullet can make penetration iffy even with proper velosity and weight. In this case the bonded bullet did NOT have this handicap.

Due to the high velosity, close range and light bullet.....I believe that 1 out of 5 or 6 bullets not exiting was pretty much what to expect. The bullet performed perfectly....as well as could be expected. If that same shot were taken (with a similar designed bullet) with say a 160 grain bullet at 2850-2900 fps I'd expect that a pass through would be almost guaranteed (bullets do strange things so no combination will ALWAYS work).

The design of the bullet is not the problem. As some others have pointed out, even the "solid" bullets fail to exit when velosities are driven to extreem levels. In fact, the tendancy of most to try to shoot the lightest possible bullet at the highest possible speed when using the "solids" (alphabet bullets) makes a pass througb possibly MORE likely at extreemly close range.

I really like the bonded bullets in general (Trophy Bear Claws and A-Frames are favorites) and this is Text book performance. As to the mono-metal "solids" I place them in the same class as steel shot in shotguns.....a gimic created by anti-hunting groups to hurt our sport.


I would say you pretty much covered it with this post. Breaking both shoulders, not fragmenting into nothing, DRT, bullet found just under the hide, all this with a light for caliber bullet, looks like fine performance to me. I'd stick with it.




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Originally Posted by safariman
Originally Posted by orion03
Looks like text book performance to me.


If your textbook is old enough. Perfect performance, 1920-1980 style.

No exit wound when using a 280 on a mere deer? Sorry, not good enough. Not even sort of.


I disagree. I have 3-4 recovered bullets from deer. 2 from raking shots that were found in the hide after passing through the offside shoulder. Both from a .30-06 165gr/core lokt. One last year from a 140gr Federal Fusion out of a .280 Rem that that hit the on side shoulder and traveld about 18" up the spine and I recovered it in the hide on the neck on the oposite side. All perfect mushrooms. I have shot about 25 other deer with no recovered bullets that produced the same results.

The other one is a core from a core lokt that I recovered in the ham of a doe on a facing shot from a 180gr core lokt in a .308 Win.

All deer were dead and all but the doe dropped on the spot.


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I'm another in the camp of desiring/demanding an exit. You can not depend on any load making an animal drop on the spot unless you break the spine. If he moves off, a blood trail is very nice to have.
But, if it can break both shoulders, then I see no problem. I mean, where is the critter going to go ? He'd have to push himself with his hind legs which isn't going to move him very far or very fast.
I like my bullets to exit, or break at leat one shoulder and penetrte the chest. Or shoot diagonially, hip to shoulder through to the vitals.
It's pretty clear this bullet is up to the job. I've used them myself in the .308 on deer. The latest designs both shoot better at targets and at the longer ranges. E

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Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by safariman
Originally Posted by orion03
Looks like text book performance to me.


If your textbook is old enough. Perfect performance, 1920-1980 style.

No exit wound when using a 280 on a mere deer? Sorry, not good enough. Not even sort of.


A lot of nonsense gets written on the internet... this takes the nugget of the month prize.


It's gotta come close.


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