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Geez, don't you guys know anything? 21st-century animals don't die unless the bullet exits. I've run into big game all over North America and Africa with just one hole in their chests, happily eating and drinking and mating as if nothing had happened.

One question that occasionally occurs to me: How do we know how much weight an unrecovered bullet retained?


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Dead deer. No tracking required. What's the problem? Every ft-lb of energy was expended INSIDE the critter, so what if there's no exit wound; Jason280's got venison.

I might be a little disappointed if the bullet didn't pass through the rib cage, but this was both shoulders. Looks good to me.


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Originally Posted by tzone
Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by safariman
Originally Posted by orion03
Looks like text book performance to me.


If your textbook is old enough. Perfect performance, 1920-1980 style.

No exit wound when using a 280 on a mere deer? Sorry, not good enough. Not even sort of.


A lot of nonsense gets written on the internet... this takes the nugget of the month prize.


It's gotta come close.


[Linked Image]

My most recent Barnes mono, pulled out of a cow caribou, 120 TSX 7mm-08.

[Linked Image]

A year previous, a moose hunt; 235 TSX, 375-350 Rem Mag.

[Linked Image]

Second from left was the very first Barnes mono I fired at an animal, a 225 grain XFB that which hit a broadside moose, the 340 Weatherby breaking big bones in both shoulders.

Anyone who can't kill an animal with a bullet retaining better than two-thirds of it weight is doing something(s) wrong. I see nothing that the TBBC did wrong that my saved monos did better.




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My overall philosophy is dead is dead and the animal never knew the difference.

Having said that, I think TBBC's are great bullets and we are lucky today that we have so many great bullets to choose from. Are there some bullets you don't want to use on some game? Yes, but that is a whole other debate.

Anyway, I have been using Barnes TSX on elk, bear and deer for several years now with great success. I just happen to have one here I pulled from under the opposite shoulder skin of a 6x6 bull I shot. It was from my 300 wsm using 168 grains, the recovered bullet weighs 167 grains after a approx 250 yard shot.
I also have one here the shoulder of a black bear I shot with a 338 225 grain TSX at 50 yards.

Not that I think the TSX is the end all of bullets but while we are sharing I thought I would show a couple I have recovered.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

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I see the bullet-performance angst is still running at spring run-off levels! grin

I stopped using TBBCs when they changes the jacket formulation (accuracy issues) but never had a complaint about terminal performance -- even compared to the TSX.

(I've actually recovered more TSX / animal shot on average than TBBC / animal shot)

The one I do have is in the center of the middle group. It's a 130 gr .270 that went lengthwise through a buck antelope at 200 yds, breaking the right shoulder and left hip before coming to rest under the left leg hide.

FWIW, the 300gr .375 on the right "only" penetrated 6-8" of moose spine..... whistle




[Linked Image]



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Thanks for the pics!

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Originally Posted by Gone_Huntin
I would say you pretty much covered it with this post. Breaking both shoulders, not fragmenting into nothing, DRT, bullet found just under the hide, all this with a light for caliber bullet, looks like fine performance to me. I'd stick with it.

Took the words out of my mouth. Breaking both shoulders, no core separation at short range with a briskly moving bullet, plus all the rest. If he shot the same bullet again at the same buck with just a slightly different angle, whose to say it wouldn't have broke both shoulders and poked all the way through. Not that it matters after taking out both shoulders and ruining the tissue in between. And if the buck had quartered towards him, chances are it would have broke the fore shoulder, traversed the chest cavity and exited the opposite side aft the other shoulder. As TexasRick pointed out, one rung up the bullet weight ladder and this thread probably wouldn't exist.

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I've had consistent performance, using TBBC for about the last 9 or 10 years. Although this year's rifle is a 7mm, I use Federal 165 gr TBBC exclusively in my BAR 30-06, the only rifle I don't reload for. (I have a lifetime supply of the stuff.) It drops deer where they stand. The only exception out of 35-40 deer taken with this rifle being one rutting buck that I found 30 yards from where I shot him. I can't recall if I got pass throughs every time (when your not blood trailing, you kind of stop speculating about bullet performance), but if the deer is DRT, who needs two holes?


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I have to say I am a real fan of 2 bullet holes, 1 in and 1 out-I read a lot of Elmer Keith when I was younger. However, I also love recovered bullets. Either way, you're a winner.

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[/quote]"No, you CAN ask for better. Barnes, for example at 95-100% weight retention being the norm, and also never a separation of core etc, since there ain't one".

"Nice looking bullet mushroom, Glad you got a deer, got a picture of the buck"?


"If your textbook is old enough. Perfect performance, 1920-1980 style.

No exit wound when using a 280 on a mere deer? Sorry, not good enough. Not even sort of". [/quote]
Do you work in sales at Barnes or something? I like Barnes and a lot of other brands, but weight retention doesn't equal bullet effectiveness, there's more than one way to cleanly kill an animal with a bullet, but I'm sure you beg to differ which is fine and your right as an american to do so. grin

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Damn, I'm just happy with a dead animal.





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Now I've killed damn near very deer I've ever shot in my life with a Hornady .30 Cal 165 BTSP and a Ruger M77 MKII 30-06, minus my first deer and the one when I first got my M7 Mag 300 SAUM, (150gr Core-Lokt Ultra) the bullets were traveling around 2750 fps and I have yet to recover any of those bullets, all were complete pass-throughs including any buck I've shot,which was through the shoulders every time, and those cheap, crappy, core-losing, S.O.B. cnc bullets just bore right through, leave a tunnel the size of a tennis ball and a blood trail about three feet wide each time. What crappy performance huh? grin I sold that 30-06 to my brother and he still uses that load with the same boring (and disappointing) results. Since the second year I've owned the SAUM I use all kinds of different bullets, but I worked up a nice load w/Varget and the same cheap, crappy, unimpressive bullet in my 300 SAUM and it does the same thing out of that rifle, judging by the size of the wound tunnels, I'd say weight retention sucks and it's probably losing it's core while it's passing through as well. laugh BTW, congratulations on getting a deer, your bullet looks good to me, I'd use it any day of the week.

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Pass-throughs only help when it comes to arrows. Never understood how finding a bullet in a DEAD animal means it failed.

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Originally Posted by dogcatcher223
Pass-throughs only help when it comes to arrows. Never understood how finding a bullet in a DEAD animal means it failed.
I don't either, ask safariman. grin

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I've never used them in my rifle, but have witnessed one of my best hunting buddies use the 200-grain version out of their 300 Win. Mag. with good results.

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nice performance in my book, any day of the week. DRT, sweet!

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Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by safariman
Originally Posted by orion03
Looks like text book performance to me.


If your textbook is old enough. Perfect performance, 1920-1980 style.

No exit wound when using a 280 on a mere deer? Sorry, not good enough. Not even sort of.


A lot of nonsense gets written on the internet... this takes the nugget of the month prize.

Yep,complete BS in my book.

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All the bullet performance talk from bullets found in dead animals makes me scratch my head. I just wonder how people decimated wild game herds around the country through the 1800's and into the early 1900's with the guns and bullets they were using.

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Bullet pics always generate a lot of talk. The OP had a good outcome with a classic looking recovered bullet. Evidently penetrating two shoulders at 88 yds. used up enough velocity for the off side hide to stop it. It happened to my cow elk last year at 165 yards with a 180 Partition out of a 300WSM.
Searched that hide for 10 minutes before I found the bullet all balled up in the fat against the offside hide.

Bobinnh: I love the term: "pulped up muscle". I can see it on a box of premiums: "Our bullets pulp more muscle than any other brand!" laugh

Klik: Those TSX's from the cow caribou and moose look a little under performed. But you can't debate a full freezer!

Your free to shoot what you want. But I don't see the need to use a great premium like a TBBC on a deer or any other thin skinned game. Other cup and core bullets could "pulp up" muscle just as well! grin


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Safariman:

Give it a rest and have a martini...in fact, pour one for me and we'll talk about the old days.

Not every bullet behaves like the last one; kind of like kids.


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