Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer- 308 load w/ Varget

I was going to say that handloading is not rocket science, but I decided not do that.

I use 47 gr varget, WW brass, CCI 200 primers under 150 gr accubonds, 150 hornady sp, and 150 BT. 2700'ish with excellent accuracy from a 20 in bbl

I have found quite the opposite to be true, at least for the rounds for which I handload the most. My experience is that the powder manufacture's data is more conservative. For example, in the load under discussion (150gr bullet with max load of Varget), Hodgdon stops at 47.0 gr while the Nosler manual stops at 48.5 gr. I stopped at 47.5 gr. with bullet seated out.




Go tell it to Nosler and other bullet manufacturers. This is why we don't just go to the max load in some manual and start crankin' out ammo, but rather do careful load development and work up to the level that meets our needs AND works safely for OUR particular combination of bullet/brass/powder/primer (including the extra variables thrown in by production lot-to-lot variations as well as assembly variables such as C.O.A.L., case length, neck tension, etc, etc.), barrel and chamber dimensions and all their associated variables in dimensions and materials, and weather and still other variables. I personally do it while referencing all the published data that I have on hand. It ain't rocket science, but it sure takes some good judgment and common sense.




Yup. I agree with every bit of that.




Not disagreeing with that either. Don't want to get caught up in the "paralysis of analysis". I'm saving those SST's for use in my BLR at lower velocity.

Nice to have a discussion with a reasonable person.

I have not bought a reloading manual in over 25 years, well not one from a bullet manufacturer any way.

My most recent handloading manual is Zediker's Handloading for Competition, which I bought 4-5 years ago when I got into F-class competition. When the NRA sanctioned the discipline they introduced highly challenging targets and I had to upgrade my tools and procedures to remain competitive. That book is like a post-graduate course in handloading and it assumes that you are already a proficient reloader as it teaches you the finer points of loading for ultimate precision. It has zero load data, but it is my bible in handloading. It also caused me to spend money upgrading some of the tools that I had been using for decades, with an eye to accuracy and volume handloading. Matches require lots of ammo.


I standardized on Varget many years ago and I buy the powder two 8 pounds jug at a time, and I developed my loads using the Hodgdon data as my guide. I do not buy handloading manuals because I can get the loading data I need at the bullet and powder manufacturers' sites. I checked the data at Berger and compared it to the Hodgdon data and that's when I discovered the large discrepancy in data. I checked several other sites and found the trend to be as I explained, so I used Hodgdon's data and it has worked well for me.

After reading what you wrote above, about using Nosler data to find a charge of Hodgdon powder to propel a Hornady bullet, I went to the Nosler site to check their data. As luck would have it, Hodgdon has load data for 150gr Nosler bullets with several of their powders. At the Nosler site, I found data for 4 powders with their 150gr bullets; IMR4831, IMR4895, IMR4320 and VV N135.

I selected IMR4895 from both sites and Nosler shows a range from 40.5 to 44.5gr max, while Hodgdon shows a range of 42.7 to 46.5gr max for the Nosler E-tip. For the Nosler 150 BT, Hodgdon's max is 47.3gr.

Next I selected IMR4320. Nosler goes from 43.0 to 47.0 for all 150gr bullets. Hodgdon goes from 43.7 to 47.6gr for the E-tip and 44.1 to 49.0gr for the Nosler 150gr BT.

Nosler does not show Varget data and Hodgdon does not show IMR4831 data, however as I showed above for the 2 powders that both sites list, Hodgdon's data has higher max loads.

I went to Hornady's site and it has very limited load data online. For the .308 Winchester, they list a load for the 160gr FTX using Varget to be from 32.6 to 44.0gr. I know by heart the max load for Varget and 168gr bullets from Hodgdon's site and that's 46.0gr. That is what I use when I shoot 168gr bullets. In fact the Hornady max for 160gr bullet is less than my load for a 180gr bullet and that's not even max, according to Hodgdon's site.

So, I gave you several examples above, if your manual differs then Nosler posts conflicting data and that can't be good.

I digress, but how can you read Zedikers style of "english" writing? Drives me batty. Or I was already one or the other.

We've already talked about this, remember? (Or are you having more and more senior moments?) Yes, he writes in a very unorthodox style, with made-up grammar but you get used to it.

Thats YOU get used to it... yeah I remember, but like Ruger, I couldn't resist....

I sit corrected.

The Ruger dynasty is gone, only the name remains; they have been doing good stuff in the last few years.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Some wounds run pretty deep.

Slightly off-topic - I grabbed some AA2520 that was on sale at a good price, figuring I could use it in my M1A, but I see now Zediker is saying nothing slower than 4064 in the M14/M1A, and 2520 is just past 4064 on the burn chart. I thought 2520 was favored by many hi-power competitors?

I also like Varget in my .308 bolt rifle, and my AR10. On the latter rifle I'm just starting its load development

2520 is fine in the M1-A as long as it's not loaded too hot... that applies to 4895 and Varget as well.

Gas port pressure is a combination of several factors, powder charge weight, burning rate and bullet weight...it's close enough to 4064 to be ok.

TC

I feel a need to apologize to everyone for the bald-faced lie I told in my previous post on this thread. I looked at the data sticker on a box of my .308 loads yesterday and I only load 45 grains of Varget under the 165 grain NBT's. Sorry about that.