Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Predators and Varmints 22 mag vs 204, the economics?

my time reloading is leisure... either not putting a dollar value to it, or listing it as priceless...some times I just like to read, or fiddle on the car, etc... my time reloading is always when it is dark outside...so it is not like I can go out and shoot in the dark...

and I don't have a hard on over the cost of rimfire ammo, as no one is holding a gun to my head to purchase it..

I have 4 rifles chambered in 22 Win Mag, 4 in 22 LR and 3 in 17 HMR...admittedly they would be shot more if the ammo was cheaper...but I haven't gotten rid of them just because the price of rim fire ammo is as overprices as gasoline is also..but I haven't quit driving and purchased a bike..

I'm just drawing the conclusion that shooting a small bore centerfire, considering the better accuracy, the better performance etc, in ratio to cost comparison to rimfire ammo is surprisingly close if not less...

guys like me I guess enjoy doing things like changing our own oil and doing our own tune ups and brake jobs instead of paying someone else to do it...so me decisions vs yours seem to differ... but in no way am I taking the time to try and be dishonest to other forum members....

and if folks wanna call me cheap, well more power to them...

I like handloading... in fact, I had 3 kids from my son's scout troop over here today, and I not only let them pick out a firearm they would like to go out and shoot, I let them load their own ammo along with it... when they went out and shot their own ammo they were a million times more thrilled than if they had just been taken out and got to shoot some 22 Mag or 17 HMR or 22 LR even...

maybe it is that I feel a sense of accomplishment and personal satisfaction handloading like those 3 boys did today... some thing just buying a box or two of rimfire ammo wouldn't have accomplished....

and as far as a cost on that? well, like the commercial says... "Priceless"....

my personal satisfaction with my own handloads since we are talking the price of time... well it gives me a much greater return on my time investment than running down to Bi Mart and spending $25.00 for a 100 rounds of rim fire mag ammo....

By your car comparison if you could spend your money on a rolling Yugo or that same money on a Ferrari in a box which is the better deal? .22M = Yugo, reloading small centerfires = Ferrari. I'd be stupid to spend the same amount of money to reload EQUAL AMMO. But the reloading centerfire ammo is so far and away better than any .22M ammo you can buy as to make it a complete bogus comparison. That is why I go thru the pain and suffering of reloading, To get ammo TWICE AS GOOD and 10 TIMES MORE VERSATILE for my coin.

As for time being worth money....... I bill out $70/hour and if I get a call while reloading I'll gladly go do it. But if I'm not on billable time my time ain't worth chit. Either is yours.

CB

The short answer is NO! - I enjoy developing accurate loads for my rifles, I enjoy the process of reloading and exploring the infinite possibilities of load development. I have a range at my home, I have a solidly mounted bench, and only have to walk 25 yds to shoot any time I desire. I am retired, my income is sufficient that if I chose to shoot just as much with factory ammo I could, but I choose to reload for the pure satisfaction it gives me. I prefer shooting centerfire varmint loads over the 17 and 22 magnums and the costs are no more to shoot the centerfire than shooting the rimfire magnums. If you or other folks like to put a price on your leisure time than good for you, for me it just that - leisure time.

As far as being intellectually dishonest - I took a look at a definition for it and found the following.

"The terms intellectually dishonest and intellectual dishonesty are often used as rhetorical devices in a debate; the label invariably frames an opponent in a negative light.[vague] The phrase is also frequently used by orators when a debate foe or audience reaches a conclusion varying from the speaker's on a given subject".

So by your using these definition it would appear as though you are attempting to frame me in a negative light because my conclusion is different from yours. About the nicest thing I can say to that is - Get over it! Who in the Hell made you the moderator of how I spend my time.

I notice that you have over 5300 posts - how much per hour is that worth, or is that your leisure time?

drover

Like I said, if someone "enjoyed" their career should their time be valued at NOTHING?? Should they litterally work for FREE?

Frankly, I don give a rats azz HOW much you like reloading OR if you are so WEIRD you enjoy assembling ammo MORE than actually shooting.

Just DO NOT try to tell me the average shooter is "saving" money assembling ammunition reduced centerfire loads vs Rimfire magnum ammo.

Frankly, Drover YOU jumped in on this this thread when I answered Seafire, so if you got your feelers hurt being called a LIAR here, then BLOW ME..

And guess what? While I ENJOYED posting that last sentence, at least I am not trying to blow smoke up everyone's azz by claiming I am saving money doing it.

My, My - your homosexual tendencies are showing.

Let's see you jumped in on Seafire, I posted in support of Seafire because I see it the same way he does, and you then make negative comments about me. Grow up! There are ways of doing things differently than the way you think they should be done.

I post a note explaining my position, not speaking for anyone but myself, nor attempting to convince anyone else that they should do it the way I do. In turn you immediately call me a LIAR and ask me to perform a homosexual act on you.

You are one SICK individual.

drover

wrong note posted- a note from Seafire inadvertently posted rather than the one from jim62

Seafire you are missing some fun shooting if you dont shoot in the dark. Rats are a great night target and improve ones skills at shooting moving targets.

264 WM...

ya know, that put an image in my head...

can you imagine the fun of neon rats running around in the dark and being able to shoot them with a red dot laser sight on your rifle?

now that would be a place for a rimfire... or a down loaded centerfire small bore.....

you can't do it around here real well, but I have enjoyed reading about some of the guys back in places like Ohio and Michigan who hunt coyotes at night with lights and calls... that would be sorta fun also...

people do shoot a lot around here at night also.. especially after midnight... but the technical term for what they are doing is called poaching...I don't think I would want to participate in that...

You lying little POS. I never PM'd you about ANYTHING. Period.

WHY WOULD I??

I would never waste my time sending you a PM when I can post it right here.

You and Seafire OBVIOUSLY are rubbing each other's sandy vaginas via PMs. You LADIES have at it. It suits you both.

Meanwhile- WHERE is the text from my supposed PM to you?

QUICK , DROVER ! - manufacture something out of thin air -that's what you are good at.

Seafire,

Pick up some 10x and some SBK's and start working your way up to the mid 20's with your charges. I have loads for tehse that are just a bit over max, but work awesome. I 've loaded some long, some short to fit magazine and I've shot the same loads in both my Sako and Remington rifles with great accuracy from both. I'm talking 5 rounds covered by a dime at 100yds off a portable bench.

Drover mistook a PM from me, as being a PM from you Jim...
So your accusations are misdirected...

personally, I've always enjoyed reading your posts, so you seemed like a decent guy.. I have no clue why this post has lit your fuse, but evidently it has... and there was zero intention to rile anyone over it...

but if you have any anger, it should be directed at me, not Drover....

I'll stand up and take the flak....

it was my understanding the forum here was to share ideas, not put a chip on our shoulder and go looking for a fight...

but if you feel the need to vent, then aim it at me...

it won't change my opinion of you as I enjoy your posts, and will continue to do so... guess we can't all see eye to eye all the time....

but slinging slanders and calling folks names isn't accomplishing anything.. but if ya feel the need, make me the target, not Drover or anyone else..

it was my thread and here I am...Fire away...

and I say this in the most respectful manor..

I'm here to get along with folks, not pick fights..

Actually Seafire. I do agree with the QUALITY of ALL the .22 mag ammo out there vs pretty much ANY handloads. Not on price but on accuracy across the board..

As far as Drover goes, HE wrote the post I quoted.

His language is very CLEAR- he claims I sent him a PM- it's up to HIM to recant that, not you.

jim62 - I did inadvertently post the wrong note, rather than posting the one from you I inadvertently posted one I had received from Seafire. My apologies to Seafire for that.

I felt bad after I posted that PM last night because I am a better person than that. By inadvertently clicking on Seafires instead of yours I punished myself, it must have been a Freudian slip caused by doing something that I knew was morally corrupt. I will not post yours because by doing so I would be lowering my self to your standards and I do not want to feel like that again.


From the time you spend on the forum and the number of posts that you log on one could deduce that this is your only life, perhaps you should enjoy it rather than call names of other posters. Don't be so quick to call someone a liar. Just because your opinion differs from someone else's does not make that person a liar. A little more tolerance for the views of other other folks would go a long way towards making you feel better about yourself.

As far as your rants loaded with sexual references, perhaps you should consider getting help for those issues. You seem to have a facination with sexual references, not to mention a lot of anger issues,consider trying to construct a sentance without denigrating remarks.


There is an old saying atributed to George Bernad Shaw that I should have taken note of before replying to you. -
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

I am through wrestlling with pigs. - drover

Drover -

In the case of your claim that I sent you a PM- YOU ARE A LIAR-PERIOD.

I NEVER sent you a PM at ALL.

THAT is why you DID NOT post the PM last nite and CAN NOT post it now.

And now, you make up more lies to try to cover it up!

Incredible.

As far as my self esteem- I have far more self worth than to let LIES from some SLIME BAG LIKE YOU go unanswered.

Which is why I never have to hide behind PMs to tell you to go [bleep] yourself-LIAR.

The end of our conversation on this subject.

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

I am through wrestlling with pigs. - drover

More arrogant drivel from Mr. LIAR.

The fact that you CANNOT produce the PM which you claim I sent is pretty much proof of your lie.

And you know full well if you make one up and post it, that would be the THIRD blatant lie on the subject you posted.

You are a sad little man.

Liar.

seafire here in Washington we can legaly hunt rats, bobcat, coyote and raccoon at night. We would shoot rats in the land fill (dump)with every type of gun we had ammo for. Shot guns, 30-30, 30-06, 22, 22mag, 243 and 264wm. For every one killed 10 would take its place. We would build a bon fire for light, kick back and watch for rats. Some of the most shooting fun there is.

264:

When I was in college I worked in No GA during the summer for a couple of years, and we use to go up to the dump up in Chattanooga and do that... couple of the locals put me on to that..

put a light on one and shoot it... turn away and put the light back on it in a minute or two, and there was a couple of his buddies chewing on him already, so we'd waste them also...

haven't done that since the early 70s... dumps down here are closed at night.. they'd freak with someone out there at night, especially with a firearm...

Jim and Drover, it is my sincerest wishes that every one here can settle our differences...

Seafire you and I are officially fine as far as I am concerned.

At least you did not make up an outright lie about me on an open forum. And it was NO mistake on his part, he made up a fish story to claim I was abusing him on a PM that I never sent. And then, like the POS he is, made up another bullschit story about claiming he "mixed it up" with one of yours PMs. One lie right on top of another. He should work for Eric Holder, he is so good at fabricating lies.

Go back and read his last few posts carefully. As far as Drover goes, I could care less what that lying prick thinks of me.