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This penetration/velocity/expansion thing is kinda hard to pin down sometimes

I think what JB says is correct in general.But i thnk it is hard to generalize about bonded bullet performance today because they come in such a wide variety of construction types,materials(pure copper vs guilding metal jackets;pure lead cores vs antimony),different bonding techniques,the absence or presence of mechanical devises to limit expansion (partitions like the Aframe, or solid rear sections like the TTBC or Northfork),and jacket thickness.

All these factors can add up in any one design to affect expansion at different velocities,and penetration.Add the variables like impact velocities,and the medium contacted(ribs/lungs vs shoulders, etc.)and you wind up with so many variables it becomes pretty hard to draw concrete conslusions about any one design until you see them work over a wide range of animals and conditions.

I am a fan of bonded bullets but a lot of my experiences are limited to the old original,the Bitterroot,which I have used a pretty fair amount since the 80's,and in a few different cartridges.Prior to that time, I read of their use by guys like John Wooters and Bob Hagel,and some others,who created a stir and led to many designs we have today.For example, it was Jack Carter's inability to get Bill Steigers to mass manufacture the Bitterroot, that led to Carter's development of the original TBBC. I know this because years back I would speak with Steigers on the phone 2-4 times a week, for years.Also,floating around somewhere,there is an article by the designer of the Northfork,indicating that he was trying to emulate the Bitterroot performance with the NF;same/same with Lee Reid and the Swift Aframe.These bullets behave much the same way with a few minor differences.

I have freinds who have used the bullet as well,so some of this is anectdotal.

The BBC was made of very heavy pure cooper jackets, as much as .060 jacket thickness;and pure lead cores,bonded by a technique that was then proprietary.They were essentially a cup/core design,with no mechanical devise to stop expansion other than the thick heavy jackets and the bonding..

They were very "tough",and Steigers recommended not only minimum velocities for thier use, but minimum twist rates as well.His expansion tests indicated that a faster twist,coupled with higher impact velocties, resulted in more dramatic expansion,especially at distance.

They have always been dramatic killers due to early and wide expansion.They will never fragment,and the expamded wings will not shear even under extreme stress ( have seen one wing come off but the bullet tumbled,having defleced on a branch before impact).Generally penetrate as far as needed,frequently farther,and at close range,will almost always be stopped against hide on the far side, but will reliably smash both shoulders on about anything.

Thi wide,rapid expansion has given me a lot of DRT's even with pure lung hits. I recall one black bear of about 300 pounds that I killed with the 280 and 140 BBC,where I hit nothing but ribs and lungs at about 90 yards. It collapsed immediately and never got to its feet....this is not easy to do with a bear. I have seen them hit likewise with other bullets and run like a scalded cat.Expansion was about 60 caliber, and retained weight about 138 gr.

One large mule deer was hit quartering on at the point of the shoulder,distance about 70 yards to a 140 gr driven over 3250 from a 7RM;he collapsed to the shot....the bullet was recovered clear back in the opposite ham,again expanded to about 60 caliber,and retaining about 95% weight.

Velocity makes a difference; I have noticed that the 130 gr from a 270 Win at 3100,will exit lung hits or shoulder hits on large deer out around the 300 yard mark,due to reduced expnasion and lower velocity....yet a 140 7mm at the same distances,and MV @ 3250-3300 will still be recovered against that rubbery off side hide.The extra velocity causingwider expansion, even at distance.

It is apparent that destruction is just greater at the higher velocities...have had the 165 30 cal driven 3250 from a 300 Win Mag turn the chest cavity of a bull elk to soup and break the offside shoulder,then exit at about 225 yards.

These and other observations are why I gently argue sometimes with folks who advocate very thin jacketed bullets as being the more rapid killers of deer sized game.This has not been my exoerience, entirely...I know that theory "works", but also know that the very rapid exansion of a quality bonded bullet,and high velocity will also destroy a lot of internal tissue,and still have enough mustard to handle bone the other side of the wound channel....what happens after that really doesn't matter.

If I had to count on a bullet to "dump" a big mule deer or whitetail(or elk),on his nose at tough angles from 350-400 yards or so, on in,I would rather run a Bitterroot or Swift Aframe at magnum velocities than a more fragile bullet,or anything else for that matter.


Just my cents on the matter....this bonded bullet stuffcould take up a book!

Bob,

As I attempted to point out in the article but perhaps didn't quite make clear is that there's something of a continuum in bonded performance--in particular among the thicker-jacketed models. The basic principle is that the less lead inside the jacket, the deeper the penetration, due to a smaller mushroom.

The very first Trophy Bonded bullets opened up quite widely, like the Bitterroots. But as they've gone through a couple of generations of modification by Federal, they've been modified to leave a small mushroom, partly by modifying the jacket but also partly by reducing the amount of lead in the front of the jacket.

To tell the truth, I wasn't all that crazy about the originals, at least in the typical calibers used in North America. They tended to open fairly widely, but with a rounded mushroom that didn't do as much internal damage as the wide, winged mushroom of the Bitterroot or Norma Oryx. The solid copper shank also tended to foul the bore, like the original X-Bullet, and accuracy could be iffy, depending on the rifle.

Federal's first modification changed the frontal jacket gemetry to result in a flatter mushroom, which seemed to kill better, in my experience anyway. They also used gilding metal instead of pure copper for the jacket, which (again in my experience) helped. But some people didn't like this bullet as much, in particular some African hunters who used larger caliber TB's. They found the wings of the mushroom sometimes broke off, for one thing.

The Tipped Trophy Bonded has solved the solid-shank problems, and also seems to have a little less lead, increasing penetration--which seems to be the 21st-century criteria for premium bullets.

The North Fork may have been originally designed as another semi-copy of the Trophy Bonded, but it works more like a Barnes TSX, due to the tiny amount of lead in the tip. Norh Forks penetrate deeper than any other bonded bullet I've used, due to their relatively narrow mushroom.

I still don't understand why they don't make a monometal purposely designed to open really wide with slicing petals that don't fall off. That would be an easy route to Bitteroot performance, it seems.


Does the Hornady Interbond come anywhere close to Bitterroot performance? It seems like it should from its design parameters.

The Nosler E Tip opens pretty wide at high velocities anyway.

Been thinking a bit about the Hornady Interbonds myself in the 264 WM, the Swift Scirocco has been really good in it and will be hard to beat though. In 35 and 375 calibers the Nosler Accubond has really impressed, wish I had the time and money to test all the different bullets but that's the great thing about a forum like this.

I enjoyed the first part of this article but was unable to open the rest when I clicked on the link. I also found it in my junk mail for the other person looking where the articles go. But I do enjoy your articles and the little I read I aggree with.

Corey

This BEST verbalizes my experiences and OBSERVATIONS per velocity/penetration. As John says 'general rules' can have exceptions BUT we must operate in general rules UNLESS we always pay premium prices.

THANKS J B & BobNH

Hi John,

I enjoyed your article. Thanks. One question ~ Why don't we see relief grooves in the E-Tip and Scirocco?

Jeff

The Scirocco isn't a solid-shank bullet.

Nosler found the E-Tip didn't need them, because it's made of the same gilding metal (copper/zinc alloy) as the Ballistic Tip. Essentially, it's a Ballistic Tip without any lead.

I live a simple life. I shoot Partitions in all my big game rifles. Never saw the need to try anything else.

If only Partitions were available and no other bullet, I don't think it would really bother me. I've only killed a couple animals with the 150 .30 persuasion but couldn't have asked for more. This year's deer ran maybe 30 yards...no problem since it bled so much.

I could go to the 180 for elk/moose/bear, but loaded up some 168 Barnes TSX for that possibility. Don't know if would really matter between those two selections.

All this talk about bonded bullets is making my head spin. I have been very impressed with my standard 180 grain Remington core-lokts out of the ol '06. If The bullet hits heavy bone, part of it might break off, but the rest will still keep on going. This way I still get the initial shock of good expansion, but also get deep penetration. Kind of like a partition, only less than half the price. I have shot through mule deer lengthwise with em, and through elk severely quartering away. I have also had many fast kills with broadside animals. I don't think I would have gotten as good of results with any bonded bullet. I may have recovered some pretty bullets, had I been using bonded bullets, but I like animals that bleed from two holes better than pretty souvenirs.

Yeah, the 180 Core-Lokt is a great bullet in the .30-06. In fact I believe it was designed for the '06. Hard to beat it for general big game hunting!

Safaris are expensive, as is wounded and lost game. Premium ammunition, by comparison, is relatively cheap.

For anything larger than impala/deer, my recommendation is a well constructed bonded bullet. Woodleighs, Swift A-Frames and Trophy Bonded softs have worked well for me. The Barnes TSX has performed admirably for me on smaller animals (i.e, impalas) and was also quite impressive on the big ones, (i.e., buffalo). I consider it a good all around bullet and it shoots accurately in my rifles. Please see the caveat regarding cats below.

Cats are a different story. The good old Core-Lokt or Federal Hot-Cor soft points have a fine reputation on cats, as does the Woodleigh. Too tough a bullet on a cat hunt is not a good thing. Ask me. I recently shot one with an A-Frame from a .416 and the result was an exciting followup in the dark. The exit wound was singularly unimpressive. Perhaps the NP at reasonable velocity may be a good choice for cats. Dunno. I never tried it and don't personally know anyone who has.

Too much velocity and a non-bonded bullet is not a good thing. IMHO, a NP out of a 7mm mag is a recipe for wounded and lost animals in many cases, especially on african game. The closer you are, the worse off you are when using this combo. Yeah, I know. A 160 NP out of your buddy's 7mm mag turned an elk into jello and fire danced around the entry wound for 10 minutes. Try that same combo on a zebra or wildebeest and let us know how it worked for you. The NP was ground breaking when it was introduced 60 odd years ago. You can do much better now, as bullet science has progressed a lot in the last 20 years.

I do not like plastic tips on hunting bullets. I have seen them fall off when the round was removed from the box. My friend lost an animal when the tip fell off a bullet, got stuck in the action and tied up the bolt.

I also recommend heavy for caliber bullets, especially under bushveldt conditions and at bushveldt distances. My preference in the .300 Win mag is, for instance, the 200 grain Swift A-Frame as loaded by Remington.

If you are hunting the "little five"' shoot them with solids. If you are hunting elephant or rhino (or following up a buff), IMHO, shoot Barnes monolithic solids. They have worked well for me. I have had Federal Sledgehammers bend and deform badly. My second choice for a solid (especially in older doubles) is the Woodleigh.

Just my observations. YMMV.

Not knocking your experience, which is much more extensive than mine, but I always thought the Partition was "THE" all-around brilliant design. In terms of the .30-06 class of cartridges for North American hunting, anyway. In the book "One Man, One Rifle, One Land", the author describes taking all NA big game species with an old .30-06, using 150, 165, 180, and 200 grain Partitions. Again, all this TSX/copper/monometal talk got me interested in the TSX as a "super design" but I still like the NP for what I have used it for. Do you think it would be doable to take a bison or big bear or something equally huge with the 168 TSX in the '06? Or would the 180 or 200 better fit the bill, if it will open reliably?

LightsOutSix:

I really can't comment about bears as I have never hunted them. I gained my experience in Africa, not North America. That said, I'm a big fan of the .30/06 and it will perform well (given good bullet placement) on 90% of African game with well constructed bonded or monometal bullets.

However, If I ever do have the opportunity to hunt the big bears, I think I would bring at least a .375, as they are considered dangerous game. A bison is a large animal, about the size of an eland, I would imagine, with heavy, tough bones. A large eland weighs a little more than a cape buff. My recommendation for eland is a .375 as a minimum. You might consider buying a .375 for your bison and bear hunting.

As to penetration, one would have to test the Nosler and TSX in some sort of consistent media in order to determine that. Sectional density is an important factor to consider as well. If you were bound and determined to use an '06 on bison, the 200 grain TSX loaded to about 2,600 would likely penetrate better than any other bullet that comes to mind. They are supposed to expand at impact velocities >1,900 fps.

A hunter who's battery consists of a .30/06 and a .375 H&H and can shoot well with them is, IMHO, ready for any game that walks the face of the earth.

Good hunting!

Phil Shoemaker, the well-known Alaskan brown bear hunting guide, has done extensive penetration testing, sometimes on beached whales. He's found that the 220-grain Partition penetrates deeper than any other expanding bullet he's used, and Phil has used cartridges up to the .505 Gibbs, and most of the premium bullets made in the U.S.

My personal experience, both with various kinds of "media" and on 100's of animals in North America, Europe and Africa, is that the Nosler Partition is one of the deepest penetrating bullets made. It typically penetrates more than several other bullets that cost more, and more reliably as well.

Especially deep-penetrating are the heavier, larger caliber Partitions from 9.3mm up, which are designed to retain around 85% of their weight, rather than the 65-70% of sub-.30 caliber bullets. The medium sizes (such as the 225 .338) are in between, designed to retain around 75% of their weight.

This year I took about half my big game with Nosler Partitions. The list included animals as mundane as whitetails and as exotic as Nyasa wildebeest and Cape buffalo. The obsolete old Nosler Partition worked perfectly every time.

In fact I've used just about every expanding bullet made in North America, Europe and Africa, and have yet to find one more suitable for all-around use on a variety of big game than today's Nosler Partitions. In addition to working great when they hit animals, today's Partitions are also very accurate.

I have not been to Africa but a couple of friends have shot and killed a considerable number of animals, on cull hunts over there, including zebra and wildebeest with a 7 Rem Mag and 175 Nosler Partitions.They said that combo knocked the snot out of all those animals and others up to eland in size,so this comment caught my eye.

Is there something about wildebeest and zebra that makes them tougher than bull elk,and immune to Nosler Partitions and 7 mags?

Yeah, that particular paragraph got my attention as well.

Unlike the WinchesterModel70, I have considerable experience both in Africa AND North America. As far as I can see there is no difference between shooting elk (generally considered the toughest North American hoofed game) and such medium-sized African "super-tough" animals as zebra, wildebeest and gemsbok.

All will fall nicely when hit in the right place with Nosler Partitions from cartridhes such as the .270, 7x57, 7mm Remington Magnum, .30-06, etc. All will run a long way when poorly hit even with "new and improved" super-bullets from cartridges from the .300 magnums up.

Is there something about wildebeest and zebra that makes them tougher than bull elk,and immune to Nosler Partitions and 7 mags? [/quote]

Hearts of steel and lungs of kevlar.