Home Forums Birds & Dogs Shotguns Sidelock or Boxlock? Any opinions?

And the problem with that is....?

My 60-year old 12-ga Abercrombie & Fitch by Zoli Rizinni. Nothing fancy, just a sweet gun.

Good point, JB!!

BTW, in my research so far the price of fine double guns seems to be all over the place. How does a guy go about determining whether a gun is priced well? I have pretty good ideas about pricing on all other manner of firearms, what I'll pay or won't pay, but with fine doubles I admit I'm kind of bewildered.

In his Shotguns and Shooting book, Michael Macintosh quoted a Victorian gentleman: "A man should buy the best gun he can afford."

My problem is that while I think I know what I can afford, I'm not sure I have the knowledge yet to be able to tell what gun is "best" in my price range. How does go about acquiring this knowledge? I can only get so much information from reading books and hanging around internet gun rooms.

Should I just get in the truck and drive down to Briley's gun vault in Houston and start getting myself edjimicated hands-on?

Stopping at one is only good in reference to drinking. Shotguns are a necessity, so get several. I have never been sorry for having too many of anything. I would seriously suggest you contact Charley Pflieger at Hill Rod and Gun;(406)585-2228. He is located in Bozeman, Montana and has one of the finest selection of nice English doubles. He will not misrepresent anything and wants your satisfaction before completing the sale. I got that Hume sidelever from him.

American gun makers have made some nice guns as well. Here is a Colt model 1878 engraved 12 gauge...











[img]http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/107_0670.jpg[/img]

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Totally agree. My W&S Screw Grip came from HR&G.

Alan

HR&G does always seem to have reasonable prices and a nice selection... turn over is quick b/c he does not over price them and wait forever like many others... CSMC has a great selection of some incredible guns (not just their own make) but their prices are just off the chart...

Nice hammer guns, Shrapnel. I have to admit I have more than one shotgun in my safe already: a couple of pumpguns, four SXS's, and an O/U sporting clays gun. Oh, and two autoloaders (tactical setups). And like revolvers, it seems that no matter how many shotguns I have, I need at least one or two more.

I do like the look and feel of a hammer gun. I have three hammer guns, a couple of Stoeger coach guns that I bought for Cowboy Action shooting, and a worn-but-serviceable old damascus barrel Hopkins and Allen hammer gun that I use in Cowboy matches now and then and have busted pheasants with a time or two, but I would hardly call it a "fine" gun. Still, it fits me reasonably well and I have to admit I love the big clouds of smoke it makes with my blackpowder shotshells. I wouldn't mind at all if my next shotgun was a fine hammer specimen.

Thanks for the tip on Hill R&G. I will give Charlie a call.

I also spoke to Patrick at Willoughby & McCabe in Dallas yesterday, and got a peck of good advice from him. He mentioned the names of several reputable double gun dealers around the country and recommended that I try to at least talk to if not visit these shops. I don't recall if Hill R&G was one of the names he gave me, but I think it was.

One of the things Patrick strongly recommended was getting "fit" by an expert. It's something I've always thought I should do. I'm a tallish guy with a long neck and most factory standard shotgun stocks don't fit me for schitt. There's a fellow down here near Dallas I am going to call about that today.

Doc--Getting fitted might be the best money spent toward a new gun.

I've been thinking about it off and on for about 20 years. It happens just about every time some new shotgun kicks me in the face.

Michael McIntosh highly recommends it in his books, and I have to admit much of what M.M. wrote which I have any knowledge of sits pretty well with me, so I'm guessing he's probably right on this score as well. I've got the fitter's phone number and I'm fixing to give him a call next week, after all the fuss of the Christmas weekend settles down.

Assuming they fit me, I likes 'em all...

Oh many, I dig the straight stocked C grade... I have a straight stocked C grade 20 and its one of my favorite box locks for sure... mine is checkered differently though... do you have any more pictures of that one? Looks like custom dimensions also??

99: The CE was shipped on August 24, 1911 to Hibbard, Spencer, and Bartlett in Chicago for an H.L. McManus. It's the original stock, but has been cut-down (thankfully), as Mr. McManus must have been a real wonder for his time: The original factory tag shows a LOP of 16.5 inches!

Very neat! It is nice from a usability standpoint that it is cut down but would have been a pretty unigue gun had it remained with its original length stock. Certainly very strange to see such a long length of pull ordered in 1911.

I've had all three types: boxlocks, sideplated boxlocks, and sidelocks (only L.C. Smiths, but they are good 'uns). Have no real preference in action type: good ones ALL work. As said, the main things are 1) gun fit (no point in having a gun you can't hit anything with) and 2) reliability.

That said, my preference for LOOKS is a nice scalloped back boxlock, which has nothing to do with function, just a nice little extra touch which costs some money and looks great, IMO.

I like rather restrained engraving, so don't need sideplates or sidelocks that are covered in "pichers". A little border scroll and some bold scroll in the flat areas to break up the shiny surface looks best to me.

I posted these before; I like both of them. I tend to use the bottom one more often because of choke, and well the top one is just so nice! Merkel over a Bland.

Boxlock, strong and simple for the most part.

I love doubleguns, boxlock or sidelock doesn't matter to me.

My experience with both is most if not all side locks are double triggers, they are easier to maintain since you can easily remove the sides for maintenance without dealing with the stock removal on boxlocks. This is nice should you get the gun wet. Double trigger guns are prone to Doubling both barrels either from stock problems or gloves making contacts with the other trigger. I had a boxlock 3" mag double on me one time with heavy duck loads and it will put a bruise on your finger from the trigger guard you won't forget.
The boxlocks generally come with single triggers but not all, as said before they have a stronger stock to receiver matting so it should withstand heavier loads without cracking the stocks but are harder to maintain since the butt stock would need to be removed. Squirting oil down the crevices is not advisable since it will work its way into the stock causing all types of problems down the road.
Most sxs enthusiast believe the side-lock is more eye appealing since there is more metal to have engraving on

first time I have ever heard anyone say that DT guns are more likely to double fire... that might be true on newer guns though I suspect just the opposite on single triggers made prior to WWII.

The double trigger sxs that doubled on me was a antoni zoli, not a cheap gun, I had real heavy gloves on and it caused the second trigger to be tripped. Years ago I had a spanish 12g double which had a mod and full barrel that would double everytime the full barrel was fired first, the mod barrel would go off simultaneously due to the receiver resettling in the stock. It took several hunts to figure that out since I generally fired the mod barrel first. When ever it doubled I kept blaming the tremendous recoil on poor hand-loading. Then one time I started checking the primers because I was convince I was extracting a live shell and leaving the empty in it, I had just checked the primers when I fired the full having it double and then looking at the fired casing.
Single trigger doubles can double for a number of reasons, stock, dirt in the wrong places etc, although I have several single trigger sxs I have never had one double.
The newer single trigger have a inertia system which requires recoil to set up for the second barrel. My browning BSS doesn't have this but all my citori's do a long with my Merkel 141 30-06.