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#5989558 - 01/01/12 11:56 PM Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL
cdb Offline
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Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 413
Loc: Justin, TX
Which one do you think is the best rifle, take price out of the equation. I am thinking about buying one or the other for my daughter in .243. She doesn't need a youth model. Please do not suggest another brand, this is what I'll buy. I have a 700 ADL that is incredibly accurate with Core-Lokt. I realize it just might have been luck to get an ADL that is so accurate.
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#5989570 - 01/02/12 12:11 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: cdb]
dhg Offline
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Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 592
Loc: Most places
I think the Weatherby/Howa is the better rifle, but the Remingon is significantly lighter. Short of spending a lot of money, the Howa will be a little better made, probably have a better barrel, and has a better extractor and safety. Greater weight may be a disadvantage or an advantage - depends how much walking she'll be doing. Remington is the best basis for a rifle that you want to customise a little, though there are quite a few options for the Howa now, too.

Personally, i'd get the Howa/Weatherby.
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#5989573 - 01/02/12 12:13 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: cdb]
rrogers Offline
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Registered: 03/30/10
Posts: 528
Loc: Cedaredge, CO
I would reccomend the vanguard. I have had good luck with them. Never really made friends with remingtons. Just this coal miners opinion.
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#5989580 - 01/02/12 12:29 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: rrogers]
cdb Offline
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Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 413
Loc: Justin, TX
Weight is not an issue, the only carrying involved is the walk from the truck to the deer stand. I prefer a heavier fifle for the recoil attenuation. So is the Vanguard made by the people who make Howa?
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#5989608 - 01/02/12 02:23 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: cdb]
dhg Offline
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Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 592
Loc: Most places
Yep. Not quite identical. Vanguard has a nicer stock, different safety, fluted bolt. But it is a Howa 1500, and it shoots like a Howa 1500 - which is to say very well. Over the years there must have been something like half a dozen American brands selling relabelled Howas!


Edited by dhg (01/02/12 02:24 AM)
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#5989623 - 01/02/12 03:25 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: cdb]
model70man Offline
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Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 3194
Loc: West Virginia
Under Remington's present ownership I would not buy anything from them. They have ruined Marlin quality as well.
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#5990240 - 01/02/12 07:51 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: model70man]
KDK Online   content
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Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 6156
Loc: home in OR!
I plan on picking up an S2 in .240 Weatherby when they become available, so I'll let you know then. It should go well with the Vanguard .223 and Howa 7WSM I already have. I do wish Weatherby would offer the 7 Weatherby in the Vanguard.


Edited by KDK (01/02/12 07:59 AM)
Edit Reason: fat fingers
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#5990247 - 01/02/12 07:52 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: KDK]
mjbgalt Offline
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Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 6169
Loc: ohio
in that scenario, vanguard all the way.
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#5991576 - 01/02/12 01:00 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: mjbgalt]
hotsoup Offline
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Registered: 11/06/05
Posts: 5465
vanguard gets my vote.

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#5991799 - 01/02/12 01:53 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: hotsoup]
Palmetto Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 1139
Loc: South Louisiana
Are the new vanguards any different in shape than the old vanguards??
Will they fit the same old aftermarket stocks? I have a McMillan and when I can I would love a 257 wby mag or a 240 wby and really wanna put it in this McMillan if I keep it.

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#5992456 - 01/02/12 04:46 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: Palmetto]
444Matt Offline
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Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 5536
Loc: Alabama
Vanguard 2, or even the original vanguard over Remington. True there are way more gizmos and upgrades for the 700, but out of the box the vanguard is just better.
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#5992609 - 01/02/12 05:14 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: 444Matt]
mtmuley Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 969
Loc: The Bitteroot
Let your kid pick them up and decide. I really doubt one is better than the other. Don't care for Asian rifles myself though. mtmuley

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#5993119 - 01/02/12 06:52 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: mtmuley]
Paul Walukewicz Offline
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Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 7878
Loc: Wish i were back in Alaska
either will do what you want... i like them both and own them both...
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#5993206 - 01/02/12 07:04 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: Paul Walukewicz]
Lockhart Online   content
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Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 1569
Loc: NC
Either one is fine. I prefer the Vanguard stock trigger. The Vanguard will be heavier, though. I own/have owned both.

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#5993675 - 01/02/12 08:35 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: Lockhart]
GunTruck50 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 310
Never owned a Remington 700 but have several model 70,s
also have a new Vanguard S2 in 270 winchester. The Vanguard is
a little lighter than all 3 model 70,s. Not as light as a Ruger
M77 in 270 WSM. But it,s the most accurate of the 5. Also
it has the best factory trigger of the 5. I like the 6 round
magazine. Need all the shells I can get. That extractor throws
shells farther than rest. Recoil is very manageable.

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#5993904 - 01/02/12 10:10 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: GunTruck50]
TATELAW Online   content
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Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 1237
Loc: NORTHEAST MISSISSIPPI
I own a Vanguard S2 in 257wthby and a Rem 700 in 243. Even taking the calibers out of the equation, if one of them had to go tomorrow it would be the 700. The Vanguard is more accurate, has a better trigger, and overall I feel more confident in my abilities when I'm shooting it.
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#5994062 - 01/03/12 03:22 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: TATELAW]
logcutter Offline
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Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 5757
Loc: Central Idaho
As Craig Boddington wrote on the Weatherby Vanguard being just another Howa..Not...

Weatherby Vanguards may use Howa actions, but the rifles are built to Weatherby specs. Chamberings are not the same, barrels are not the same, stocks are not the same

I sure love mine and if I had the bucks,I would buy another one in 338 Win Mag.

Jayco

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#5994071 - 01/03/12 03:32 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: logcutter]
bangeye Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 1919
Loc: KY
+1 vanguard though my experience has been with older vanguards. In our area sportsmans warehouse had them going for $389 and I think you could spend 2x as much and not get a much better rifle.

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#5994155 - 01/03/12 04:39 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: bangeye]
Patrick_James Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 1296
Loc: out west
It seems that every time in recent years I have bought a Remington there has been a problem. The last 2 I bought the primers cratered from the firing pin hole being to big in the bolt.I would like to say Remington but I can't. I would buy a Vanguard.
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#5994172 - 01/03/12 04:45 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: Patrick_James]
ingwe Offline
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Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 50351
Loc: Southwestern Montucky
The primer cratering thing is something to do with a new bolt face design...its not the problem it appears to be...that being said though, we got a letter from Remington ( at the shop I work part-time in..) explaining it because so many people had noticed what you saw...including myself...looks for all the world like a sign of excess pressure, when all it is is a sign of excess remington engineeering.... wink
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#5994174 - 01/03/12 04:46 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: ingwe]
ingwe Offline
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Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 50351
Loc: Southwestern Montucky
That being said..The new Vanguard is a better dollar value. Period.
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#5994827 - 01/03/12 08:18 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: ingwe]
MadMooner Online   happy
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Registered: 12/22/07
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I'll take the Howa/Vanguard all day.
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#5995460 - 01/03/12 11:21 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: ingwe]
ratsmacker Offline
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Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 6863
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: ingwe
The primer cratering thing is something to do with a new bolt face design...its not the problem it appears to be...that being said though, we got a letter from Remington ( at the shop I work part-time in..) explaining it because so many people had noticed what you saw...including myself...looks for all the world like a sign of excess pressure, when all it is is a sign of excess remington engineeering.... wink




I smell bovine effluence in that letter, ingwe, and I'll bet you do, also. BS is BS, on stationery or not.
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#5995474 - 01/03/12 11:25 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: ratsmacker]
ingwe Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 50351
Loc: Southwestern Montucky
Remington wouldn't do that...would they??? whistle


Where is swampy when you need him?
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#5998074 - 01/03/12 07:53 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: ingwe]
Patrick_James Offline
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Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 1296
Loc: out west
I think he's gone.Probably expounding over on the Ruger forum.
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#5998545 - 01/03/12 09:58 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: Patrick_James]
Powder_Burn Offline
Member

Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 57
Given the price and quality, the Vanguard is hard to beat at the moment. Remington's declining quality standards don't support it's selection. The last ADL I handled reminded me of some crude Eastern bloc firearm unworthy of ownership.

Although the trigger on my youth Vanguard Series 1 is creepy, I can have it tuned or just bolt on an aftermarket trigger if I so desire. The stock and machining quality on the Vanguard bolt/barrel/action is good although the roll marks are butt ugly. The youth stock is stiff fiberglass and not injection molded junk. All in all it's a good option. I only paid $325 for a combo that included both a quality youth and junk adult stock.

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#5998763 - 01/04/12 12:21 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: Powder_Burn]
rrogers Offline
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Registered: 03/30/10
Posts: 528
Loc: Cedaredge, CO
Powder Burn, You might want to check that youth stock again. If that rifle came with two stocks not a spacer, the youth stock is a painted wood stock.
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#5998887 - 01/04/12 04:21 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: rrogers]
bangeye Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 1919
Loc: KY
Originally Posted By: rrogers
Powder Burn, You might want to check that youth stock again. If that rifle came with two stocks not a spacer, the youth stock is a painted wood stock.


You may be right as the one I looked at was the regular stock and it was synthetic. I was simply told it came with a youth stock too. It carried the shorter barrelor otherwise I would have thought it was a regular vanguard. It wouldn't have mattered to me as the youth would more or likely made it's way to ebay as at 6'4 with long gangly arms I would have little use for a short stock. I did like the shorter barrel though.

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#5999898 - 01/04/12 09:29 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: bangeye]
rrogers Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/30/10
Posts: 528
Loc: Cedaredge, CO
You could buy the carbine. It is the same rifle with the older adult stock. I would not but the youth anymore unless it was for someone that will be of smaller stature for life because now it only has one stock and a spacer that you can put in between the stock and recoil pad. They look like crap imho.
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#6001544 - 01/04/12 05:02 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: rrogers]
AggieDog Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 3619
Loc: Northern California
As much as I do love my 700's, unless weight is an issue, I would definitely select the Vanguard over the 700.

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#6008367 - 01/06/12 09:43 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: AggieDog]
kman Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 527
Loc: Cold White North
I bought a S2 in 7mm rm this fall and killed three deer with it. I also ordered a mcswirly for it at Christmas. The fit and finish and the machining on the vanguard is so far above the 700s ive had it Isn't even funny. The only 700 I have left is a 243 youth model that I bought for my wife and that is the only reason we still have it. It has a rough chamber and raises spot on the bolt face. Vanguard all the way.

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#6011159 - 01/06/12 10:01 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: kman]
HUNTER1309 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/11
Posts: 59
Loc: CALIFORNIA
Vanguard all the way.

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#6087541 - 01/24/12 03:24 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: Palmetto]
cdb Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 413
Loc: Justin, TX
Bought her a Weatherby but in youth stock. When we placed it side by side with a Remington there was no comparison needed.
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#6087673 - 01/24/12 03:58 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: cdb]
Reloader7RM Offline
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Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 5391
Loc: NW La.
Good Luck with it.

Two of my buds bought 3 Vangaurds. The triggers sucked on all 3 and all of them shot like crap. I can see one bad example of any brand, but after 3 duds there's no way I'd take the gamble.

One of my buds took both of his to a smith to have Timney's put in and both bedded. When he got them back one shot around an inch and the other shot 1.5-2" with everything he tried. Sent one down the road and kept the other for his son to hunt with. He was pissed to say the least, lessons learned....

Hopefully yours will be a totally different story.

Have a good one,

loder

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#6088568 - 01/24/12 07:06 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: bangeye]
dadof4 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 222
Loc: Texas
I bought my son the Vanguard , it will put 3 touching with factory federal ammo , fits him well and he loves it. I'd do it again, no regrets.
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#6089142 - 01/24/12 11:01 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: dadof4]
cdb Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 413
Loc: Justin, TX
My daughter's has an excellent trigger and shoots great.
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#6089160 - 01/24/12 11:31 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: cdb]
M12 Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 06/28/06
Posts: 2016
Loc: Stalking up High
I have a soft spot for Rem's. Light too! But those new VG's look solid. A tad heavy IMO though....
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#6089842 - 01/25/12 07:35 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: M12]
timbertoes Offline
Member

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 115
Loc: North Texas
the other day...I bought some range brass (257wby!, super cheap too)

I KNEW it was shot from a remmy.

How ?

the crater around the primer, just like my Bud's .243 Rem.

"just saying"

OTOH, the Vanny plastic Stocks are....horrible IMHO. SO figure on stock upgrade cost.


Edited by timbertoes (01/25/12 07:38 AM)

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#6090041 - 01/25/12 08:23 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: timbertoes]
ar15a292f Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 941
Loc: Indiana
I just bought my son a new original Vanguard from Cabela's for $340 in 30-06. He loves the rifle, the injection molded stock will be replaced with a B&C Medalist. I also handled the new Series 2 Vanguards and was very impressed with them.

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#6151679 - 02/09/12 12:44 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: ar15a292f]
cdb Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 413
Loc: Justin, TX
I have a 700 ADL .270 synthetic stock I bought new for $325.00 in 2004 at Cabela's. It came with a cheap Pine Ridge 3x9 scope. It also had open sights which you can't hardly get on a rifle anymore and I like them. Anyway the ADL was incredible accurate out of the box. I zeroed it to shoot 1" high at 100 yards and would shoot a cloverleaf. My brother-in-law has a Weatherby Mark V and a Winchester Model 70 with expensive Leupold and Nikon scopes, and when we shot together the ADL blew away his rifles in the accuracy dept. But things have changed. After experiencing a nightmare with Marlin over a new 30-30 I bought for my son I will not purchase a Remlin again. I think they are crap. After taking the Marlin apart, putting in a happy trigger and using 800 and 1200 grit paper on just about every part of the rifle it is a very nice rifle. Factor in the cost of the trigger and all of the man hours put in to it, it is not worth it. After comparing Vanguards side by side with Remingtons we purchased the Weatherby. Worse case scenario is I will have to drop a Timney in it which I feel confident I can do after installing a happy trigger in the Marlin. Then we will have a very fine rifle that in my opinion is a good as many rifles costing twice as much. By the way the Vanguard looks like it has controlled round feed as opposed to push feed. Is that true?

Thanks for all the responses.
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#6151680 - 02/09/12 12:46 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: cdb]
cdb Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 413
Loc: Justin, TX
I have a 700 ADL .270 synthetic stock I bought new for $325.00 in 2004 at Cabela's. It came with a cheap Pine Ridge 3x9 scope. It also had open sights which you can't hardly get on a rifle anymore and I like them. Anyway the ADL was incredible accurate out of the box. I zeroed it to shoot 1" high at 100 yards and would shoot a cloverleaf. My brother-in-law has a Weatherby Mark V and a Winchester Model 70 with expensive Leupold and Nikon scopes, and when we shot together the ADL blew away his rifles in the accuracy dept. But things have changed. After experiencing a nightmare with Marlin over a new 30-30 I bought for my son I will not purchase a Remlin again. I think they are crap. After taking the Marlin apart, putting in a happy trigger and using 800 and 1200 grit paper on just about every part of the rifle it is a very nice rifle. Factor in the cost of the trigger and all of the man hours put in to it, it is not worth it. After comparing Vanguards side by side with Remingtons we purchased the Weatherby. Worse case scenario is I will have to drop a Timney in it which I feel confident I can do after installing a happy trigger in the Marlin. Then we will have a very fine rifle that in my opinion is a good as many rifles costing twice as much. By the way the Vanguard looks like it has controlled round feed as opposed to push feed. Is that true?

Thanks for all the responses.
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I only engage baboons that are raiding my camp.

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#6157036 - 02/10/12 08:42 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: cdb]
mjbgalt Offline
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Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 6169
Loc: ohio
vanguard is push feed
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#6157620 - 02/10/12 11:15 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: cdb]
Oldelkhunter Offline
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Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 7320
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: cdb
I have a 700 ADL .270 synthetic stock I bought new for $325.00 in 2004 at Cabela's. It came with a cheap Pine Ridge 3x9 scope. It also had open sights which you can't hardly get on a rifle anymore and I like them. Anyway the ADL was incredible accurate out of the box. I zeroed it to shoot 1" high at 100 yards and would shoot a cloverleaf. My brother-in-law has a Weatherby Mark V and a Winchester Model 70 with expensive Leupold and Nikon scopes, and when we shot together the ADL blew away his rifles in the accuracy dept. But things have changed. After experiencing a nightmare with Marlin over a new 30-30 I bought for my son I will not purchase a Remlin again. I think they are crap. After taking the Marlin apart, putting in a happy trigger and using 800 and 1200 grit paper on just about every part of the rifle it is a very nice rifle. Factor in the cost of the trigger and all of the man hours put in to it, it is not worth it. After comparing Vanguards side by side with Remingtons we purchased the Weatherby. Worse case scenario is I will have to drop a Timney in it which I feel confident I can do after installing a happy trigger in the Marlin. Then we will have a very fine rifle that in my opinion is a good as many rifles costing twice as much. By the way the Vanguard looks like it has controlled round feed as opposed to push feed. Is that true?

Thanks for all the responses.


It has a M16 extractor. I think the vanguard has higher quality control then any Remington probably ever built. It does weigh substantially more and the options to customize it are limited compared to a 700. Previously the Vanguard trigger left a lot to be desired but theyhave improved it. .
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#6157666 - 02/10/12 11:27 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: cdb]
GunTruck50 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 310
I,m very happy with my Weathery Vanguard S2 in 270 Winchester
it,s also Stainless. Shoots tighter groups than the 3 Model
70,s I own. Likes 140gr Gamekings or Accubonds behind RL22.
I got to order some 150gr bullets to give them a try. Has
a Nikon 2X8X32 monarch scope on it.

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#6157730 - 02/10/12 11:43 AM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: GunTruck50]
Esox357 Online   content
Campfire Guide

Registered: 06/16/01
Posts: 4254
Loc: Ohio
I purchased a Vanguard Stainless 30.06 it never shot great but it was acceptable. My remington ADL outshot it. I just purchased a Rem ADL stainless 30.06 and haven't shot it so can't say but heard the x mark pro triggers break so may have to replace it, guess time will tell? One thing I noticed on the Vanguards is that the bolt opens is two stepped? It opens at a point and sounds like it is unlatched but requires it to move up another 1/4 of inch to open it? I could see myself in a hurry for a second shot and possible short stroke it?

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#6159326 - 02/10/12 06:09 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: Palmetto]
Taco280AI Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 787
Loc: OCONUS
Vanguard 2, all the way

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#6171177 - 02/13/12 03:19 PM Re: Weatherby VANGUARD® SERIES 2 or Remington 700 ADL [Re: cdb]
StrayDog Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/17/04
Posts: 5780
Loc: Texas
My Vanguard is not the series II so I don't know about their weight. But I give the edge to Vanguard for quality of manufacture but mine is noticeably heavier feeling than a 700 ADL.

So,if light weight matters get the ADL.
Also, your daughter may have a preference in the stock designs. Both good rifles for the money.

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