Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Thunderbolt!

My Dad's cousin flew 144 missions, starting in Sicily, and finishing in France, in P-40's and P-47's. I retrieved an accident report for a noseover he had in a P-47 in fall of '44 in France. He managed to run off the marsden mat runway on landing, and into a ditch. They wrote it up as 10% weather, 90% pilot error. According the report: the weather was raining, 1 mile visibility, gusting crosswinds up to 30 mph...... I'd hate to think what would have happened in "bad" weather..,.

Yep, but Mustangs were abundant and cheap to fly. Thunderbolts cost about 40% more, and had little loiter time compared to the ponies.

My Dad would have agree to that! 3 shot-up Republics got him West of those White Cliffs. The shot-up 51 and that damn radiator location got him in the Sea.

Later on, in '45. he grew to dislike the '51. Lost too many of his younger pilots, on account of that radiator and their youthful zeal to get in the combat. They finally got the problem improved on the later series, and the '51 went on to it's fame as a fighter.

Had a good friend here,he flew the 51 and the F4u.said the 51 was good but he would take the Corsair over it anytime!

If'n I had to choose, especially if I could fly like Robert Johnson, I'd pick a Jug to fight in in the skies above Europe any day. Johnson handily whupped the Germans he met in combat, and even bested that Spit in a practice duel.

If nothing else I could, as RAF pilots reportedly used to joke, dodge around in the fuselage when under fire.

Birdwatcher

We have probably all heard the term,...to give the whole nine yards. Anybody want to take a guess where that term came from.

27 ft of .50 cal ammo belts?

I heard that once -- have no idea if'n its true or not.



Johnny $

Since we mention the P-47, I'll raise a glass to Francis "Gabby" Gabreski. (I hope I spelled his last name right.) Gabby was one of our Thunderbolt Aces.

My great grandmothers neighbor flew P-38s and P-47s in WWII. He later went on to train Korean pilots. He had some amazing stories to tell about the punishment the P-47 could take (and give out).

That book about Robert Johnson, I read that book as a kid right around 1965... I lived in England from 1963 to 1966 as an AF dependent...I got into all of the aviation of WW2 during that time, and it has been a lifelong passion...

my favorite fighter of that period has always been the Thunderbolt...

I always mentally compared the Mustang and Thunderbolt in my mind to say a car vs car comparison...

the Mustang was much like its auto namesake the 1965 Mustang.. light, agile, maneuverable..fast...

the Thunderbolt was more like a 53 Buick.. big & heavy.. but heaven help anything that gets in its way...

my aunt pulled out in front of a 53 Buick once, by running a stop sign... she had her 67 Mustang... her car was hit by the Buick and totaled big time... the driver of the Buick had to replace his bumper and his left front fender...

Big and Bad... that was my love for the Thunderbolt...

and yeah, I am sure the AF regretted destroying all the ones they did after WW2 for scrap... especially when they had to deal with ground support in Korea...

the Navy and Marines in Korea had the Corsair and the Skyraider in Korea... the AF had to make due with the P 51s...

great planes, but hardly in their best element when it came to ground attack...

in the air, the Thunderbolt was heavy hitting, could shake an enemy aircraft with its ability to dive or also nothing could snap roll like a Thunderbolt...

and as said.. nothing could hold up to the battle damage a Thunderbolt could in WW2....

that is why the 9th AF, which were the first Mustang users, had them taken away from them and re equipped with the P47 leading up to and after D Day....

there was this old guy who use to be part of an aviation enthusiast group back when I lived in Minnesota..it met at the St Paul/Mpls Airport, at the Museum they had ( which isn't a bad little Museum..) if anyone is familiar with the Monogram Model of the P47, they did one which the name of the aircraft was the "Turtle".. he was the pilot... sadly at the time he was part of the group, he was in a walker...he served in the 9th AF about 7 or 8 months (IIRC).... he fly 10 different P47s with that name...

shot to crap from ground fire... but they brought him home... never to fly again.. but they made it home... as he put it.. and Kept him from being a guest at the "Adolph Hitler Bed and Breakfast".....and as he also put it, a P 51 would have had him shot down behind enemy lines 9 times...

Ya'll are welcome. I happened onto it just by googling Thunderbolt. I think there was another one, also.

Great aircraft!

A very good friend flew Corsairs in the Japan country and said that was one mighty airplane.

How about this.



L.W.

Then Hub Zemke would tell ya you were wrong! I met or chatted with Mr. Zemke at 5X or more gunshows I attended in Salt Lake City. Zemke was selling fancy stock blanks.

Zemke praised the P47 for its ruggedness and ability to perform its missions after getting hit. He praised the '51 for its aerobatic talents/qualities, but resented its fragility!

I remember him telling a friend and me that the Mustang was a great AC for its manueverability, but preferred the sturdier 'Jug' to protect its pilot and get the job done!

Who here at 24HCF knows how Zemke went down and became a POW?

Zemke was flying an escort mission in a P51, with three other AC's in his flight. At about 28,000 feet they hit a cold front (head on) the meteorologist failed to mention at BRIEFING that morning. Two Mustangs (including Zemke's ship) literally broke apart and desintegrated while flying straight and level!

One moment Zemke was flying and the next he was free-falling through air and popped his parachute! Francis Gabraski was XO and took over the squadron, before he too went down (after nicking his prop when straffing too low!).

Plus, who is aware that the P47D with its 14' 4-bladed propellor (and whatever engine at that time), had a faster rate of climb than ANY other fighter in Eurpoe at that time? True story.

da WHOLE nine yards!

Good plane but the #1 American killing machine in WWII was the F6F Hellcat. The Hellcat would account for no less than 75% of all Allied air kills in the theater at the hands of United States Navy pilots. It proved to be an "ace maker" for American pilots in the Pacific Theater, accounting for some 5,156 kills (US Navy/Marine Corps combined) credited to 307 Hellcat aces.

The pictures I took below can be seen in large size if opened in a new window.

My grandfather did time with Zemke in Stalag Luft I. He was always greatful for Zemke's efforts to get the US brass to take seriously the fact that the Soviets who liberated the camp wanted to take the POWs as hostages to bargain for more of Europe after the war. Zemke got them liberated from Russia after they were liberated from Germany.

Yup, that's true. Went to a lecture by the Montana Historical Society on the B-17 bomb training sites in Montana during WWII and the lecturer said she had just learned that every ,50 on the B-17 had 9 yards of ammo. A former gunner in the audience said that was true.

I love to go to these lectures on Montana history because there are always a large number of 80 and 90 year olds who have been there and done that. A lot of history with these very senior citizens.

ya know Tim,

I went to a speaking engagement back in the late 90s given by Ken Jerstad to the Civil Air Patrol at the community college in Coos Bay on a weekday night...

poor guy was blind and was 88 years old..and had his golden retriever seeing eye dog with him..

Ken Was one of the Flying Tigers in China.. and is accorded his fame as one...

one of the kids asked how he got into the Flying Tigers, and after he laughed, he asked the kid, "you think I was a hero huh?"

he told about being stationed in the Norfolk Va as a Navy pilot... his group has orders to be attached to an Carrier that was going on a tour in the Bering Sea... they were told at a Briefing, that they were to put their personal affairs in order...it was expected that 50 to 70% of them would not come back due to the weather conditions for flying in carrier operations...

after the briefing several days later, they heard a pitch by Claire Chennault about the need for volunteer "pilots in ASIA".. it wasn't stated who they would fight for or where they would go...just that it was in Asia and the US military would allow any pilot who wanted to resign his commission and go, would have the blessings of the White House..

so the night before the opportunity was going to be gone, and their unit was ready to ship out, over a batch of beers at the bar, he and several of his buddies decided to resign their commissions and go to 'Asia' with Chennault..

their reasoning was they were not being heroes... Asia offered better chances of surviving, than the odds they were being given on the duty in the Bering Sea....

so we took the easy way out...

I've heard stories like that before. It's amazing how many "heroes" took what they thought was the lesser of two evils for survival.

I remember Audie Murphy saying the only reason he was the most decorated "hero" of WWII was that he was the unlucky stiff who was still standing when the fighting was over.

Zemke hated the rooshiins! I was unaware 'Ivan' liberated Zemke's Stalag (where he was the SRO - senior ranking officer, among POW's), and tried to take Americans "POW" or as hostages, but I'm not surprised!

Much earlier in Zemke's time-in-theatre, Zemke was a instructor to the Russians on the earlier P47's that were part of the Lend Lease program. Those particular P47's were the razorback, three-bladed versions.

I never understood the name Zemke put on his aircraft (it was in Russian), but besides meaning "friend" (in part), it was also supposed to be a warning! To the damm Russians Zemke never, ever trusted! Not to mess with him or shoot at him when his back was turned

Even in the late eighties/early nineties when i saw him, Zemke held Russians in low regard - not that I blamed him! ACTUALLY, I thought any so-called libbs or dumbazzes who thought they knew better about Yankee-rooskie relations could learn a lot listening to Zemke! The man was still very lucid and quite sharp.