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in terms of trajectory and performance?

Seems the one and the other are interchangable.

How does the 257 WBY stack up against the 25 WSSM and the 270 WSM?

Last edited by David_Walter; 10/19/05.

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The .257 Roy is the flattest of the ones you've mentioned.

As for the .25-06 and the .270 Win., trajectory wise, the .25-06 might be a hair flatter across the board with comparable BC/SD loads, but I doubt seriously if you'd ever really notice the difference in the field.




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While I truly respect the above reply and note that I tend to agree with it in a certain larger sense, I also have to point out that some have wondered just what real difference there is between a .270 Win and the .30-06, based on field performance with good bullets of integrity.

My point here is that at some point this argument must fail. The .25-06, a great item, isn't actually in the same league as the .30-06. (Or, is it, in fact?) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />


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none!!


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There is no discernable difference between the .25-06 with a 120-gr and the .270 Win with 130-gr, especially on antelope and deer sized game.

The .270, though has a lot more choices in bullets, including tough bullets as light as 130 grains.

When you move up to the 140-gr BT, the .270 is a different class.

The 150-gr bullets for the .270 will clobber big deer, wild boar, black bear, caribou, and elk - without having to cross your fingers.

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I have both and I REALLY like my 25-06 but I have simply accepted that the 270 is the benchmark that all sub-30 calibers should be measured against (kinda like the 30-06). Still, if I could only own one, it would be the 270 as it is in a different class loaded with 150 or 160 gr bullets. Still, the 25-06 is a killer of deer and is just cool. I had a 257 roy but never warmed to it, I think if you are going to burn that much powder, the bullet may as well be a 30 cal. also, for long range hunting, I think a shooter is better served with a heavier (ie 165 gr or better 30 cal bullet). Just my $.02, I am sure many of you have a different opinion.

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David:

I will only answer your title question. No - a 25-05 is not a .270.

The old 06 case was, I believe, first made prior to 1906 but the 30 designation was added. Since that time the 30-06 case has been modified by either necking it up or down to different bullet diameters. The smallest that was current was the .22-250. Then the 250-3000 Newton. And the .270. It was necked up to some .35 caliber bullets. I'm sure I failed to list a whole range of others.

Whenever you double the diameter of a circle you don't double it's area - you quadruple it. So going from a .257 caliber ( 25-06 ) to a .277 calber ( .270 ) is actually a bigger step than assumed.

The 26-06 will shoot bullets from 60 grains to 120 grains tops. It is excellent for prairie dogs, varmints and small game such as whitetails, mule deer and antelope. It is not a moose or elk gun although I did shoot a moose with a 25-06. Spined it and it dropped in it's tracks.

The 270 shoots bullets from 90 grains to 160 grains. It is adequate for moose, elk and caribou.

The 25-06 performs better and more accurately on smaller game and varmints while the 270 is better for larger game.

The footpounds of energy are more with bigger bullets.

The rifling twist, bullets size and shape, ratio of diameter to length, BC ( ballistic coeficient ), sectional density all enter into the mix to distinguish the ballistic characteristics.

The two calibers meet and overlap at the high end of the 25-06 and low end of the .270 but they are quite separate at the extremes of bullet weights.

Somewhat similar, yes, - the same, no not at all. The difference, however, is indeed quite small.

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The above posts hit it pretty well, IMHO, There is little difference between the two when we are talking about deer, but the 270 does get the edge if one is to hunt larger game. As to the .257WBY, I have owned two and the one I have now is and will likely remain my favorite deer and antelope rifle. With moly coated TSX's I am getting chronographed speeds of 3650 (worked up to 3850, but the primer pockets were useless after only two firings) out of my 27.5 inch PacNor tube and with the high BC and excellent terminal performance of the TSX, it is very easy to hit with and kill quickly with. Several big mule deer at 350 to 460 laser ranged yards, all bangflops! Recoil is very mild. I am taking this rifle with me in 4days as a backup to my .300Ultra on an Elk hunt. If the rifle or scope on any rifle in camp goes bad, I would have no qualms about myself or someone else using on a big bull elk out to 300 or so yards if a broadside shot were presented. Since you live close by, I would be happy to let you or one of your boys try it out.


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The 25-06 certainly is not a 270win just as the 270win is not a 7mmremmag.However on deer sized game all three will do a great job in almost any situation.When it comes to elk and moose,bigger is better.

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The .25/06 loaded with 115-120 grainers compared to the 270 loaded with 130's is much the same in the field. There is no animal you can take with one, that the other will not replicate.

The .257 Weatherby even loaded with standard bullet construction and lighter weight, such as 100 grains compared to either the .25/06 or .270 Winchester is a superior killer on deer sized game.

The .270 Magnums, either of them, only offer additional performance over the smaller cartridges if you load the heavier 150 or 160 grain bullets and then only on larger elk/moose sized game. (Because of the more difficult angles and heavy timber hunting terrain often encoutered.)

If we go back to deer sized game, they all do the same thing which is introduce the effects of gravity to the game.

The choice you make needs to consider the largest animal you will hunt with the caliber of choice and the terrain most likely to encounter in the extreme.

The .257 Weatherby will chronograph at or near 3700 fps with the 100 grainer and it cannot be described adequately to anyone in print.

If you havn't seen it work, you will never know how deadly and efficient it is and that is before you take the trajectory advantage into consideration.


There has been very little written about the .257 Weatherby over the last 30 years. But, unkless you have lived the life of a barrel or 2 on game, you cannot claim athority to speak of it.

It really is something special.


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Quote
The .257 Weatherby will chronograph at or near 3700 fps with the 100 grainer and it cannot be described adequately to anyone in print.



Perhaps with a 28" or 30" barrel or at pressures well above the design pressure for the cartridge..

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Please note that I specified a custom (smoother than a factory) 27.5 inch barrel and moly in my post. That said, the .257 WBY is something quite special when it comes to absolutly SMACKIN deer sized stuff. 9 years ago I shot a mule deer that was running full out after having just been shot at. At 75 yards the deer just hit the ground sliding immediately upon being struck. No continued running for a bit, no limping along, no NOTHING, and this was with a typical behind the shoulder rib / lung shot. Just bang and down sliding. Standing deer have yet to take a step from thier tracks when hit. So far only 6 deer with this caliber, but very impressive to this date.


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To amplify WETIBBE's commentary, it is the cross-sectional area of the bullet that forms the wound channel, you know the part that *does* the killing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The .25-'06 .257" bullet goes .0519 in.sq., while the .270's .277 bullet goes .0603 sq. in. The difference is about 11%. The .270's 150 grain bullets will do a lot more killing with that increase.

Of course the real jump is to the .30 calibers, they all kill "better" than the smaller bores.

jim


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Quote
Please note that I specified a custom (smoother than a factory) 27.5 inch barrel and moly in my post.


I was actually quoting someone else and I did mention a longer than normal barrel,which 27.5" certainly is.

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You were reffering to Aussiegunwriters note I believe. I have found that the longer tube really helps with this round. It is probably true that 3700 fps would be difficult to achieve safely with the standard 26" barrel, although with some of the newer slower powders such as R25, Retumbo, Big boy etc. Maybe not. Aussiegunwriter, what say you? What combo's have you used to get to the numbers you mentioned? What length barrel. I am NOT questioning or arguing, genuinely curious as another big fan of the 25ROY. I am hitting my numbers using R22.


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Safariman,
The powder you know as H4831 is actually the Aussie powder AR 2213 and I have used it since it was inrtroduced so noticed burning characteristics change as Mulwex refined it and settled on a stable burning rate in relation to the Original Hogdon 4831 surplus which they modelled it on.

(I know the guy who supplied the original powder to Mulwex for the original experiments.)

The results I got were from 3 factory barrels back around the late 80's into the 90's whereby I got velocities up to 3720fps from 100 grain Nosler Solid bases which I preferred in those days for deer sized game.

The powder was changed again in the early/middle 90's to suit the Scottish version that Hogdon imported before changing vendors and going with the Aussie Mulwex range for most of the Hogdon line.

I think the current version is slightly slower again but it does not generate the speeds I got from a 26 inch barrel without warm loads, though climate has a lot to do with that argument.

You might say that just about every where in Australia is almost sea level as few people hunt at any real altitude compared to here in the US.

The other contributors to the threat are also correct when they quote the longer barrels for best velocity gains with current powders.

I have a mate back in Oz that uses the .257 Roy a lot and has taken it to Africa 3 times so far and has routinely dropped bullet weight every time he returned.

He now uses custom match grade barrels with the 90 grain X bullets at about 3750 fps and has taken many Africa game animals up to eland with it and a single shot apiece.

Connie Brooks at Barnes knows who I am talking about and keeps tabs on him because of what he achieves with X bullets, as he doesn't use much else any more.

Back to the orioginal thread:

The .257 Roy is better than ever stated in print, better than the .25/06, better than the 270 and a faster more emphatic killer on deer sized game than either, if you watch several hundred animals get taken over a period of time.


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Aussie:

The ultra velocity rifles carry a penalty. Volume case to barrel ratio. They are barrel burners with a limited accuracy life. Anyone who shoots them should be prepared to expect a barrel replacement in a relatively short time. *( Depending on how many shots they take per annum ) i.e., 500 to 3,000 shot life ).

The ultra high velocity bullets travelling at ultra speeds have varying effects depending on where they strike the object. "Some" will indeed transmit a hydraulic wave to the function centers and immobilize the animal immediately. Others will not.

As a point of clarification bullets normally DO NOT posses any appreciable knock down powers at all. "Some" ultra velocity bullets, however, do have the capability of "shocking" the nervous and cardio-vascular system, and brain, to the point of immediate paralyzation. These are two separate, and distinct, concepts that should not be confussed.

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Replacement barrels are not all that expensive. Damn the efficiency....give me speed!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! You are right on the money Bill, as to how the shock effect happens. Those of us who shoot them simply know that it happens often with the superspeeders and we get to see and enjoy the effects <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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Quote
Whenever you double the diameter of a circle you don't double it's area - you quadruple it. So going from a .257 caliber ( 25-06 ) to a .277 calber ( .270 ) is actually a bigger step than assumed.


But you aren't going from a 25 to a 50 caliber, so he is not doubling the diameter, or quadrupling the area. It is only a 16% increase between the area of a 25 and a 27. There is a 23% increase between a 270 and a 30'06. So the 25 and 270 are much closer than the 270 and 30'06.

BUT...You can shoot heavier bullets in a 270, and if I owned a 270 I wouldn't shoot 130's, I would shoot 150's on bigger game. And that is something the 25 cannot do.

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I have a buddy that had a .25 and had a streak of about 15 one shot kills on whitetails. He was not really satisfied with how quickly it put them down so he traded for a .270 and was much happier with it.

Now having said that I don't remember what bullets he was using in each rifle and I'm sure that plays a major part...

I for one see no advantage in the .25 since I have a .243 and .270. If I was buying a first rifle I would consider the .25

I wish they would have called it the .257 Remington though I can't hardly stomach anything with ought 6 in it<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mike


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