Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 264 Win Mag vs. 270 Win.

I know everyone gets tired of all of these cartridge comparison posts but I need someone to justify a new rifle for me. I currently have a model 70 XTR .264 and recently I have been considering buying a few standard calibers. Most of my rifles are not readily available at your local wal mart. I have been shooting nosler ammo (130 accubonds) from my .264 and I see that the 130 accubond from a .270 is only 25 fps slower. I am not currently a reloader so I am forced to shoot factory ammo. I can also buy .270 shells for considerably less than .264 ammo. Is there really any benefit to owning the .264 over the .270 when the vast majority of my shots are well under 300 yards. I am thinking of selling or trading my .264 for a nice .270 or even a .308. I think the .264 is a "cooler" cartridge but is there really any good reasons to keep it over the .270? I just read on here the other day that you have to be gay to use a .270 so that is one reason why I am not sure I want one I was just wondering if there were any other reasons? Thanks.

What rifles do you own now?

I gotta figure out how to be gay real quick� I got a big herd of .270's

Those "gay" comments regularly come form a few on this forum that just live to put in their smart azz comments.
Once in awhile it is a legitimate joke from a serious member.

FEW who own a 270 find a reason to not own it. Very capable, repeatable and dependable caliber. If you don't reload, you can buy ammo almost anywhere, and it will shoot well and kill stuff.
I plan on being buried with my 270, but I will probably be shooting 130ABs in my 6.5x284 till then also.
jmho
Tim

I figured out my lack of gayness...I gotta get a 7x57 or 300wsm. Ingwe and BSA will be here soon

Rancho, the following is what I have right now. I currently own a 7mm-08, 25-06, 450 marlin, 30-30, 35 rem, 300 WM, .223, .243, 338 federal and the .264 WM. Not alot of standard calibers so that is why I was thinking of adding one or two.

"Not a lot of standard calibers"???

7-08, 25-06, 30-30, .300WM, .223, .243 are all pretty 'standard' to me..

Here's maybe a more viable comparison.. The 25-06 will run a 120 gr to 3,000 fps.. A .270 will run a 130 grain to 3,000 fps.. The .264 will run a 130 grain bullet up to 3200, and a 140 grain to 3,000 fps..

What you're doing so far is slightly hindering the performance capability of the .264.. In your area, is 130 grain factory stuff all that's available? And are you certain of the Nosler speed on those 130s (i.e., are you running them through a chrono?) If they're truly within 25 fps of the .270 then Nosler's really toned down the load.

The .264 is really a very well-performing round and benefits greatly by reloading.. I don't think you'd get much benefit, overall, by trading down to a .270..


Just my .02

The 264WM is about the only belted mag that interests me--it does have cool factor (OK, the 6.5RM also).

But as an elk hunter, I will always compare the 6.5mm 140gr to the 270 cal 150gr. As an elk hunter, I will also compare the 26 inch bbl 264 (if you're gonna run a overbore mag, may as well run the looong bbl) to the 270 22 inch bbl. The weight of the rifles, the recoil, and trajectories.

The 270 wins for a serious Rocky Mountain rifle.

Now, for your hunting back east, the 264 may be just the ticket.

Casey

First of all.....ignore the "gay" stuff....most of those comments are from guys using calibers that don't kill a whit better than a 270.Many of them know better,but won't admit it,because the 270 annually kills a lot more game than most of the things they carry.270 users laff at that stuff....

If you have an XTR in 264 it's likely a pretty heavy rifle, and you may want something a bit lighter/shorter. A light 270 Winchester with a 22" barrel will give abit under to a bit over 3100 fps with the regular old blue box Federal factory ammo,and in my rifle,gave 3106 just before this hunting season. It will nicely kill any deer you bump into whether in PA or anyplace else,and will work in the thickets as well as the more open country on anything you are likely to hunt.

Out to 300-400 yards, your 264 holds no advantage.

The advantage to the 264 won't really show up until you get well past those disatnces;anything hit with either one to 600 yards will be quickly and thoroughly dead if the bullets are well placed from either one.

It's not the 7x57 or 300WSM that gives them the gay, it's the little bitty boolits.........



Casey

Sell one of your rifles and buy reloading equipment. It'll make all the rest of them more fun.

sell me that M70 264 and go buy yourself a two sevenee.

Best advice ITT.

It has always been my opinion that the 270 win is the reason that the 264 win mag never became really popular. One will do what the other will do, but without the rapid barrel erosion. Both are fine calibers.

Yeah, let's compare.. I just ran two factory offerings through the Sierra Infinity-6 program.. The 150 gr Remington .270 vs. the 130 grain Nosler .264WM..

At 400 yards, with 200 yard zero, (just to pick one):

.270 Rem = 872.8 ft/# energy, and drops 27.49 inches

.264WM Nosler = 1375.1 ft/# energy and drops 21.85"

In carrying weight only.. The heavier XTR will negate the increased recoil vs. the MT. rifle.. But I do agree that carrying a 5# rifle up/down major hills will be better than dragging a 7# rifle over the same terrain.. But as far as energy/trajectory is concerned, that lovely .264WM wins big..

It's especially the 'ticket' when shooting beanfield country..



As nearly everyone knows, I'm a bit (well, maybe more than a bit) biased toward the .264.. Just thought I better make that note.. ..

Both fine calibers, buy both and pass them on to your heirs.

You mentioned not reloading, if you don't reload there are many more factory offerings available in the .270 Win. which increases the odds of finding a combo that delivers great accuracy.

With factory loads at ranges up to 300 yards there isn't enough difference between the .264 and .270 to make the .264 worthwhile, due to the relative lack of factory .264 ammo.

That's pretty obvious when you choose to use one of the most ballistically inefficient .270 factory loads for comparison to one of the best 264 loads.

The .270 was built around the 130gr bullet. Why do you use the 150gr to compare?

Plus, he said he doesn't shoot past 300yds. Your comparison put everything in favor of the .264.

Bottom line is the .270 will kill anything he wants to 300yds.

I used that bullet because that's what the poster said he used.. Trying to compare the two actual loads - the Nosler by the OP, and the 150 grain by alpinecrick..

Between those two, the 264 wins easily..

Ok, let's go back to 300 yards.

At 300, using those same two examples,

Rem = 1245 energy/2.9 drop
Nosler = 1595 energy/2.5 drop

Still favors the .264WM.... Again, just using the two versions of ammo specified by those two posters..

Inside 300 yards, no argument, each will do fine.. But once past that range, there's really not much comparison..

My point is, why trade down to a .270 when the .264WM will do everything the 270 will, and more..especially since he already has the XTR in hand..

Very true - and availability of factory ammo is of natural concern..

Look - not trying to start this big argument - just trying to give the OP some rather pertinent info as to what he has now, and what he's possibly looking to do..

IIWH, I'd keep that XTR.. Now, if this was all reversed and he had an XTR in .270, and was looking to trade for a .264WM (again assuming all things inside 300 yards) he'd still be better off keeping what that .270 and not trading.. For many of the reasons stated above; and certainly due to the no doubt limited availability of .264 ammo..

More ammo available is one reason. Important if you don't reload.

Both good calibers. The .264 has the advantage for long shots.

it looks like you already figured it out.

The 270 win and 264 Win are cartridges not calibers.

I don't think that the 264 mag has much advantage. Do the trajectory comparison using MPBR at any size target you want, just the same for both. When both were sighted in dead on at 200yds, the difference at 300yds was about .5". That will not even loose you a cotton tail rabbit! The 264 will certainly still win but, the difference at real hunting ranges is so small as not to matter. The MPBR of both will be very close to the same, no real advantage to either. Beyond that neither has a real advantage either. Once you have left the range where to bullet drops so much as to require a hold over, what difference does the hold over make so long as the bullet has the ability to do its job when it gets there.

I cannot understand the manure of "good to 500yds" when you could probably kill an elk at 500 yds with a 30-30, if you hit it right. Also why worry about the 400-500 shot anyway? How many opertunites have you had at that range that you could not close that range a bunch? I doubt even one unless your just looking to take shots like that. All the plus's of the 140gr or even 130gr of the 264 over the 270 go away when you limit the range to 300yds or less. The real advantages of BC are not going to be realized till somewhere beyond 500 yds when the better BC bullet is over taking the lower one. At some point the better BC bullet will equal the lesser but you'll still have to hold over with both!

These discussion's make me think about a guy wanting one car over the other because it's a lot faster but both have the ability to get you a big fine. What's the point?

I'm yet read everyone's posts but you asked if it's worth keeping the .264 over the .270. My answer is it's worth owning both depending on what rifle you might want to add.

Rancho asked you what "rifles you own" and you certainly have the bases covered with your choice in cartridges....but depending on what rifle you own in 25-06, adding the .270 might be moot!

With a .264WM and a .300WM already in your stable, everything thing else is merely for "fun". You might add to the fun by dumping the 450 and 35 remington and invest in some reloading gear!

And another armchair QB shares his vast experience with us.

John said the same thing. He's hardly an armchair quarterback.

I'm glad I didn't read this thread before I shot some animals with a 270 300-400 yards away.....

No kidding, Bob. Good thing you didn't know you had a rifle that was totally inadequate, and it made you gay besides!

Just gay, I'm telling ya.

270 Winchester.....the blackpowder front stuffer of the 21st Century.

Sell that .264 to Northern Dave and buy something in caliber for which ammo is available at Walmart. Calibers like .270, .30-06 and 7mm Remington Magnum come to mind.

The 270, 30-06 and 7mm Remington Magnum aren't calibers.

No but they'll all do anything a .264 will inside 300 yards and a whole bunch cheaper and more conveniently for a factory load shooter.

But....

We gotta campare bullets of roughly equal Sd--140 in the 264, 150 in the 270 for example. And equal bbl lengths, and max SAAMI pressures.

The 264 still wins (most of the time), but not by much.




Remember when the "beanfield" thing was the rage?--I built me a 270 with a 25 inch Douglas bbl--it thinks it's a 270Wthby.........or maybe a 264WM........

Of course, the only time I ever employed it for its intended use was a Georgia whitetail-----over a peanut field.




Cssey

Who's hotter...Oprah or Michelle Obama?

Thanks a lot for just killing my appetite...

Sorry, I was just making an analogy. To most of us, they look the same and we have no interest in either. To their fans, I'm sure there is a huge difference.

You'll have to pick a different word than "hotter".

Redneck,

Not trying to start an argument either. But I was trying to answer the original poster's question, not go into the long-range advantages of the .264--which, by the way, I do appreciate.

I've taken a lot of game out to 400+ yards with the .270, but am also a fan of the .264, having hunted some with a genuine pre'64 Model 70 Winchester before 6.5mm became the in-caliber among rifle loonies. And I have a .264 right now, along with a .270.

If the OP wants to get into handloading, in order to extend his horizons in several ways, that's another question than that in his original post. My answer was directed to that original post, from my hunting experience with both rounds, not to anything or anybody else.

You sure are spot on.

"Not a reloader" and "Shots under 300 yards" ended this debate before it began...

....or at least it would have if we weren't all rifle loonies and couldn't leave it alone!

Still, it's just not neighborly to pass on a chance to try to talk a guy into reloading.

Grin...

DJ

Wow, just maybe you're right about that too!

We're all frustrated, because we can't go hunting.

Most of us can't anyway.

The .264WM is a reloaders cartridge, more velocity is avalible to the reloader over factory cartridges. It's also better cartridge at long range. That said the .270 is a nice round. No reason not to own one.

Terry

Yeah that was just sort of a stacked comp....yeepers

I had a 25" .270 as well, it was a rock star for sure! And as I recall JB did one once upon a time as well. I'd of kept mine 25" but it wouldn't fit my scabbard so 23" it is.

IMO to 500 yds they're pretty much the same, past 500 well the bigger case takes over. Big suprise...!

And real world, I mean real world not many take game on a consistent basis beyond 500 yds. We'd be real suprised if we truly knew how many here did, let alone in the world of non rifle loonies.

Dober

Well, coming bck to the party a little late here..

But if you (the OP) wants to buy a .270, buy a .270..

But first, I'd get to reloading.

Mark or BobNH,

If you reloaded, and kept both rifles to 24", which would be better, a 270 win. or a 264 Win. Mag? Thinking of 0 to 600 yards or so. Which bullet would you use in either cartridge for that range of shooting and barrel length?
Thx.

John I have not worked as much with a 264 as I have a 270,so may not be qualified to really say.I have never killed anything but paper with a 6.5 of any sort.

With its greater powder capacity and the best 6.5 bullets,the 264 will show "better" at distances beyond 300 yards,and 600 yards will be far enough out for these differences to show up...by how much I really can't say.Take bullets of equal BC and it just isn't in the cards for a 270 to start them as fast as you can in a 264,because 270 bullets will be heavier,and the 270 case does not have as much capacity,so will not be able to start them as fast, and this is where the 264 will exceed what a 270 can do.

This doesn't mean you are helpless with a 270 out to 600 yards;only that the comparison is not really fair because, because of the disparity in case capacity.

With more ordinary hunting bullets, like, say a 130 Partition in 270 and a 125 Partition in the 264, the 264 will start those at higher velocity than a 130 in the 270 for the most part for the same reasons,so its ballistics should be better,and the 264 will shoot flatter.

I've never killed anything at 600 yards with any cartridge but would not expect there to be a huge difference in that regard.Hit properly with either one at 600 or under,and I'd expect animals to be dead with either one.

I have done very little in the way of real long range shooting(beyond 600 yards) but the only rifle I have used in doing so is John Burn's 264 with the 140 gr Berger....I can say I was impressed with what it did out to 1200 yards and this gave me a healthy respect for the cartridge.The 264 with a 140 gr Berger is a nasty little outfit!

I bet a SA based 7mm-08 burping 120's @3200fps via a 22" barrel really pisses you .270 guys off....grin!

All joking aside, I've never owned a .270 or anything .277" for that matter. Just never could find any love for it when the 7mm-08 in a short action can effectively duplicate it, I'll not even mention the .280....

Having said all that, from those that I have spoken with here and elsewhere in regards to the .264 Mag, it's seems no big feat to run 130's @3300fps via a 26" barrel with at least a couple different powders. That pretty much stomps the .270 in all categories. Load the 130gr Scirocco (.571 b.c.) to 3300 and it's not even fair to compare, 'though the new 150gr .277" LR Accubond should make things at least interesting.........


X-VERMINATOR

Having recently worked with two .264's (new Mod. 70, 26" and a Brown Precision-Sako action 24"), I'm disappointed in the cartridge after trying five bullets, four powders, and three primers. I quickly found that chamber / throat specs require most bullets must be seated quite deeply. Of course, this could be corrected with some custom gunsmithing. Old load data was much hotter than the current data I followed; as a result, muzzle velocities haven't been impressive. Model 70 accuracy was mediocre at best as it was tough to get groups under 1 1/4", though the Brown Precision did better. No doubt the .264's a hotter cartidge than the .270, but I doubt the degree of difference is of much significance for most any hunting situation.

Not really.. ..I can get 3200 any old day with a 130 from the 270 if I want to,and from a 22" barrel at that.

Have killed numerous times with 270's,7x57,7/08's and 280's I haven't seen one do a thing the other can't do on animals.....it's all same/same/to me and they all fall into the same pig pile .

To me there is no 7mm "magic" over the 270 without a magnum hull and the heaviest 160+ 7mm bullets.Standard cases don't cut it.

While in the subject,and this is my own view,but much as I like the 264,I see little use for it while there is a magnum 7mm around.

extremesolo,

I bought a 700 BDL .270 Win when I was 16. It was my only hunting rifle for many a season. I've used in CA's premium mule deer areas & many Rocky Mountain states. I have NEVER had to shoot ANY head of big game with it more than once. I made my longest shot with it.

I shot the barrel out of it, that & I might have screwed it up trying to clean it, which is another story. Long story short, I retired it for the much better elk rifle, a 7MM Rem Mag. Now don't get me wrong, the 7MM Rem Mag might just be the single best cartridge for all North American big game, or at least it's tied for the top spot with the .280 Rem, and the .30-'06, which really ain't any better than a .308 Win so we will put it way up there, and the 7MM-08 Rem could squeeze in there as well, and, oh, wait a second, I forgot to mention one that's closing in on the century mark but doesn't get much love here even though for some yet-to-be-determined reason has a phenomenal record of killing all kinds of North American big game with one shot: the venerable .270 Win.

Seems like I was a lot smarter at 16 than I was when I figured I had to have a 7MM Rem Mag to kill big game.

All I really need to know I learned in kindergarten and when I was 16.

The last of your rifles I'd purge is your .270 Win. But that's just me. Your mileage might vary.


Best of luck to you,

Tom

I'd take the .270 any day, it does a lot of thing well with less powder than the .264 Win. Before all you 7-08 fans chime back in, the .270 will offer more variety of factory loads for the non-handloader to choose from when they walk in the local store. As far as long range even the lowly 130 great SGK will work on large deer, the bullet I used stoked by a compressed load of I4831. I shot this deer on the north side of 560 yards back in 2006.




I used the 150 grain NPT on elk several times, but wouldn't hesitate to use a 130 NPT or all copper. I think the best balanced bullet right now for the .270 is the 140 grain NAB, and is what I plan to load in my new to me EW when it arrives.

Interesting thread... I have a new-to-me .270 to begin load development for, and a new-to-the-grandsons .264 (M70 XTR) to tinker with as well. Will chime in once I have some real world experience.

When I hunt pigs, the landowners want as many shot as possible.

For that reason - for me - the 5 in the mag of the 270 over the 3 of the 264 Mag, as well as the ability to recover quicker for a second and subsequent shots with the 270 because of less kick, is enough to say "go the 270".

These are my reasons though and perhaps irrelevant to the thread starter.


In reference to an earlier comparison of 150g 270 Win loads and 130g 264 Win loads, why wouldn't you compare like products, eg 150 .277 SST and 129g .264 SST?

No. The .264 WM has a MPBR ONLY 16 yards greater than the .270 WCF (321 yards vs 305 yards).

But there's the coolness factor, so I wouldn't sell it.

never shot a .270.

have/had eight .264s

no regrets

I've shot both quite abit. I'd take the 264 anyday

I get more like 3000 fps out of a 22" 7mm-08. A 22" 270 will do 3000 with 140s.

As for the 270 vs. 264 debate, if one stacks the deck with a 26" barrel on the 264, sure it will perform. You probably won't see the difference until over 500 yards. Is it worth packing around a heavier, clumsier rifle for that advantage? That's up to you. With similar barrel lengths the differences will be nil at typical hunting distances.

With similar bullet weights (in similar weight rifles), the 264 will be louder and kick harder. Not much, but it's there.

The 264 has the "cool" factor, but cool factor doesn't find you a box of ammo when you lose yours on a trip. A good number of gas stations, hardware stores, and hunting camps in Montana (and numerous other states I've visited) will have 270 ammo kicking around somewhere. That's worth quite a bit for the globe trotting hunter.

prairie_goat,

I'm on board with 22" barreled rifles. And since I bought a short action rifle, I grown to love it. It sure is a whole lot easier to carry up & down mountains all damned day long.

3000 FPS out of a 22" rifle means freezer meat.

That's because your doing it ALL Wrong !!! When I shoot pigs here at the Ranch, which is pretty much every day, I use my .264 Win Mag with 125 grain Partitions.

I just wait untill two big ole porkers line up, & get 2 pigs with one shot. The .264 WM shooting at nearly 3350 fps using that 125gr Partition, WILL Penatrate & Exit BOTH Hogs!

Thus saving on ammo & felt recoil per pig.... I rest my case. 264WM Rules!

BTW, had some fellas from "down-under" come in a couple of weeks ago to go hog hunting here in N. Texas.
GREAT Bunch of Fellas! I think I learned to cuss in Australian.... I taught 'um a few Tex-Mex cuss words, too. Adios, Mate & good hunting!

270 is still gay. 264 is still cool and has a ballistic advantage. But, I'll admit that the factory loads for the .264 are on the gay side of things, as 140 grainers can and will do 3200 fps safely.

Now, whether the .264s advantage makes things deader at reasonably shortish range or if you're just afraid you'll "accidentally" cornhole your hunting buddy because he or you carry a .270 is your problem to decide.

So, if you want to keep the .264 because you like the ballistic advantage, you ought to reload for it. If you're content biting pillows, tickle fighting fairies, paint your rifle stocks with rainbows (Tom....), eat fruits and vegetables, forget what your canine teeth are for, use hand lotion, and shoot factory ammo, then by all means only you have to know it's a .270.

........ I notice that only on here is the 270 "gay",the general allusions to sexual deviation among its legions of users seeming to be the only real way the gackers can explain the preponderance of popularity for the 270 vs their own pets,this resulting in literally metric tons of dead animals per annum,world wide, while the 264 and other rare jewels languish in the nether world of erratic and seasonal brass runs,scarce factory ammo, and relative obscurity...

Except,of course, among a tiny minority of internet gackers(likely about the same, percentage wise in the overall shooting/hunting population, as those practicing other forms of sexual conduct bear to the population as a whole).....secure in the delusion of having discovered the ultimate in terminal effectivness(meaning of course that everyone else is "stupid",especially 270 users .

Mention the 270 and 264 in the same breath among these worthies,and the poor 270 user is beset upon by an avalanche of hyroglyphics,charts, graphs,TKO formulas,wind comparisons,and geneological studies demonstrating his connections to an inferior gene pool.

Simultaneously,he is assaulted with pictures of rainbow painted stocks,mated to 26-28" barrels,SS only, (many weighing a paltry 9+ pounds) sandwiched between a scope the size of NY deli baloney,and a portable bench rest, built light for "rough country",all transported by a character (some, not all!) wearing a baseball hat backwards, and festooned with rangefinder,cell phone with direct links to online ballistic programs,and Kestral wind meter;filled with delusions of grandeur over the potential demise of harmless herbivores in the next zip code.(They will show you "pictures"!)

The weight is no problem of course....at the distances involved it isn't required that we get a very long way from the ol' pickup or ATV.They comingle in coveys,one to pull the trigger,several to gawk through the rangefinder and spot misses for the wind,artfully doped,and a last one with barratone voice to give the obligatory "Send It!" message.(Meantime, the game generally drops within 200 long paces)with about the sam finality as those plinked with the antideluvian 270..... .....which surises the 270 user,sort of...not at all.


The poor, myopic 270 users, (generally more conservative)cast a skeptical and cocked eyebrow at the deviant behaviour(gay?) confronting them,and wander off,head shaking,concerning themselves more with sharp knives,packs and mules laden with meat,trophy rooms filled with horns and antlers,and a Grand Slam or two,a bunch of big 6x6's and more than a handful of 30"+ mule deer racks taken with a bantam weight 270,a 6X scope(7 pounds all up), and factory ammo,or handloads crafted around one proven bullet.

Pondering all this, I sometimes wonder....."Who is really gay?"

Don't want to high jack the thread but, you need to get out more....(grin)! Try some Big Game or if you really want shocked, CFE223. Have seen 3300fps via a 22" barrel and a 120 with no pressure signs using it... 3200fps should be absolutely no problem for anyone....


X-VERMINATOR

"Pondering all this, I sometimes wonder....who is really gay?..... "BobinNH"

Could NOT have said it better. (your whole post)

We do KNOW the majority are 'straight'.

The minority are 'gay'.


Hummm, in 41 yrs of hunting, I've known EXACTLY ONE guy to have a .264 WM

You guys still going at it. Damn....

The only problem I have with the 6.5s as a whole...........

is the .... (nevermind)

IF YOU WANT TO MAKE CONVERTS ??

You catch more flys with 'honey' than vinegar!!


Also, From 270W, why go 'down' (pun, if U see it) to .264 WM?

WHY NOT 7 RM or similar? There are MANY more bullet weights with EXCELLENT bc and sd.

There AIN'T no flies on the 270s bc's or sd's either.

Besides, there are SO MANY hunters that NEVER see a place to practice or hunt 400 yds or more.

X-VErminator: Not picking a fight here ...and don't doubt that you saw it.....but I'm sorry...I simply do not believe "it" at permissable pressures.

I've tried Big Game, and made 3050 or so in a 22" and a 21" 7mm-08.
Ramshot load data shows Big Game able to hit 3062 fps with a 120 grain Barnes X. Pressure is 57850 psi, so it could probably be bumped up a bit, but the barrel length is 24" so that evens out.

Hodgdon's data for CFE 223 is impressive, hitting 3151 fps with a 120 Ballistic Tip. Barrel length is not listed for the online version, but they hit 3117 with Varget, so I suspect the barrel is pretty long.

3151 is a long way from 3300. That's 280 Ackley territory, and I'm sorry to say is not doable in a 22" 7mm-08 without some pretty high pressures.

I don't know if either of you have noticed but there isn't much available on the shelves of Walmart besides dust...no matter what cartridge you are shopping for.

If anything, buying for the .264WM may be an advantage right now just because you may be more likely to actually find a supplier with some ammo for it in stock.

All that being said, I think there is a pretty good argument for you to learn to reload.

I saw a box of factory 264 wm at one of the last gunshows for $15.00 ..I'm still kicking myself for not buying it, and I dont even own a 264!!

I wouldn't consider a .264 WM if I wasn't a reloader. .270, hands down, for the non-reloader.

DF

'Though I'm without a strain gauge, I have been shooting 7mm-08 for about fifteen years. Been hand loading and reading pressure signs for 20+... All I can say is, if you haven't loaded CFE 223 in your 7mm-08 with 120's try it....... along with a little crow.......!


X-VERMINATOR

I think 3300fps for a 120g bullet would be at max pressure for a 270 Win 65k PSI. I can't see it being done in a 7-08 without well exceeding those pressures, even if the bore is slightly larger.

I can see the 280 Rem doing it and exceeding it though of course.


Anyone loading the 120 SST in the 270 Winchester? Would be interesting to see speeds and performance.

Xverm-what are you burning for a powder and charge to get 3300 out of a 120 in your 7/08?

Dober

In 2004 I found a Sako L61R 264 Win. Mag (4 digit serial#)with a 24 inch bbl. that was a thing of beauty, it looked almost new and other than the barrel in need of cleaning it was pristine.
Being a Sako junkie it followed me home (I was surprised how long it sat in the LGS), I tuned the trigger to 3.5# added a 6x42 Leupold and started out with factory Remington 140gr Core-lokts. Accuracy for three shots ran about an 1.25" @ 100 yds and when I ran them over my chrony 5 shots averaged 3008 fps; certainly passable.

In experimenting I discovered that early Sako 264's were short throated and most bullets needed to be seated deep, I tried H870, RL22, H4831, H1000 and IMR7828 powders and just couldn't get the speed I was hoping for (140 NPT @ 3100)without flattened primers. I ended up with an accurate 130gr Accubond load @ 3185 that was just fine for deer and pigs.

Just as a side note, if you'd like the fastest way to possibly lose your access take your 264 w/ 120gr BT's and shoot a couple of groundhogs on a smaller farm in CT....the land owner was of the opinion that was the loudest rifle he had ever heard. After that little stunt I used a 22 WMR and a 222 on that property.

In my limited results the 264 was just a loud 270 and you could get great 270 ammunition across the counter without all the fuss.

My L61R went down the road and I purchased an AV in 7mm Rem. Mag. from a member of the "fire" for the next experiment.

For the non-reloader out to 300 + yards get a 270 and don't look back.

YMMV Cheers

Two grains over Hodgdons max...produced the 3300 for me. Like I said, zero visable pressure signs. Their published max of 49.5gr clocks 3200 in my rifle and is what I have settled on....


X-VERMINATOR

If you limit shots to 3-350 yards, there isn't a nickel's worth of difference. From 350 and beyond, well that's a whole "nuther" story....

XVerm-49.5 of which powder? Or did I miss it?

A bit cold here so I may of missed it...

Dober

My exact thoughts after shooting them 30+ yrs.

CFE-223.........

X-VERMINATOR

Thx X-verm


Side note, according to my calcs the 264 beats up on the .270 @ 500 yds. Which isn't a big shocker being as it's case is a fair bit bigger.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot to add that in a 10 mph wind the 264/140Berg @ 3200 load drifts 3.2" less than the 270/150Berg @2950.

And the diff tween the same loads in terms of drop is with the .270 one needs to turn in 1.7 more moa...

This is just me but to 500 there just isn't much diff and I can easily live with either of those. But go long (500-1K) and things will take a change for the worst for the .270.

Dober

This sounds reasonable to me.....I've never used a Berger bullet in the 270 but I have killed with it to a bit over 400 yards;that's as far as I've had to use it. The 264 seems much like a 7 mag to me and I would expect the same advantages from it that the 7 mag offers.

Kind of like comparing a 300 winny to a 308 win huh Pat??

The 130 Scirroco @3300 is where it's at IMO.........


X-VERMINATOR

Well $hit, 3300 must be safe then...

Book/published max's mean dick..........You've got a ways to go, junior!


X-VERMINATOR

Yeah, book max doesn't mean schit. Experienced reloaders work up a load until the rifle explodes, then buy a duplicate gun, back off one grain and call that max.

Pressure signs don't often show until well over 65k psi. But you didn't need me to tell you that, with your vast experience and all.

You did not do well in reading comp did ya... back up and re- group my friend.

Then again, I'd be happy to start a new thread rather than highjacking this one. I kinda like this one and a new thread would mean that you would have to actually load CFE223 in your 7mm-08......


X-VERMINATOR

I didn't miss a thing. You loaded up to two grains over max and strangely your loads chronographed faster than book max. You backed down to book max and your velocities are still faster than the book specifies, which tells me that your rifle's combination of bore diameter, chamber dimensions, brass, etc. are producing higher pressures at that charge weight in comparison to the test rifle.

I'm glad you're seeing good velocities with CFE 223. I suspect further testing will indicate 3100 is probably about it for this powder at generally considered max pressures in a 22" 7mm-08. I'll let this convo get back to the 264 vs. 270 (as I picked up a Winchester M70 Classic 264 Win Mag yesterday in a trade), but I do have one last question: How many times has your brass been reloaded while retaining tight primer pockets?

It isn't uncommon for a case of smaller capacity to give light bullets almost the same velocities we see form those bullets in case of larger capacity....this "observation" is older than the hills fi you been at this game long enough.

This can lead to the erroneous conclusion among the uninitiated that a 7/08 is as fast as a 280 is as fast as a 7RM etc etc ad nauseum.What it generally ignores is that the larger case will still provide MORE velocity with the lighter bullets(even if not by much) and stick the smaller case's dick in the dirt with the heavier one's.

To make up for this obvious inadequacy,fans of short cartridges having less capacity install 24"-26" barrels,feed them the lightest generally available bullet, pound on them until they scream,and use new miracle propellants that defy the laws of internal combustion...

VOILA! the 7/08 is the equal of the 270.The 7/08 is a fine cartridge but seems it ends up in the hands of a too many stooges intent on making it a 280AI or 7RM....funny thing is these idiots expect us to believe this trash.

Xvermin if I were you I'd stop jousting with Prairie Goat...he is too smart for you and is kicking your ass all over this thread.

Dummy, your pressure sign is looking you right in the face..

Hint, its that 3300 number.