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#6143738 - 02/07/12 C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873?
E Blair Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 302
Loc: Volksrepublik Maryland
I thought I would ask a question. I have been thinking about a Sharps rifle sometime in the future. And I have a second thought about a Browning High or Low Wall. I think that C. Sharps is the only option there as Shiloh does not make the Browning rifles. How do you choose one company over the other? How does the Browning compare to the Sharps rifle? One of these days I will have to take a trip to Big Timber to take a look at those operations. In the meantime maybe you guys can school me on the fine points.
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#6144211 - 02/07/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: E Blair]
Paul39 Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 8622
They are all good rifles. What are your priorities? What kind of shooting do you plan to do? How much do you want to spend and how long are you willing to wait? How important are historical authenticity and USA manufacture? As you have noted, not all models and options are available from each of these companies.

Viewing manufacturing operations may be interesting, but not particularly germane to a decision as to which of these rifles to purchase. JMO.

Paul
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#6144497 - 02/07/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: E Blair]
Ranch13 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 3933
Loc: wyoming
Both Shiloh an CSA are highquality rifles. There is a slight difference in the stock proportions, the Shiloh being somewhat slimmer than the C Sharps.So if you're just going to get one, it might be best to handle one of each to see which fits and feels the best.
As for the 1885's the ones Winchester are selling now are about as good as they get.
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#6144782 - 02/07/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: E Blair]
Otter Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 10/14/06
Posts: 3264
Loc: NW Arkansas
I don't know about High Walls as I have not owned or shot one. I have handled C Sharps rifles and they are a well made rifle. That said, I own 2 - Shilohs and have had numerous calls to the company handled professionally and to my satisfaction. Shiloh is, IMHO, a very top-rate company. Shiloh also offers rifles for immediate sale (as does, I'm sure, C Sharps) on their website - rifles, for whatever reason, that were never actually purchased or issued. If you are a bit flexible in what you want in a rifle, you can have one in hand in less than a week. Most of the ones Shiloh has "in stock" are not really "dolled up" or of unusual caliber, so you may just see something you "need".

You'd have fun and be pleased with any of the ones you mentioned as well as the Winchester mentioned.
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#6146520 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: Paul39]
E Blair Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 302
Loc: Volksrepublik Maryland
Originally Posted By: Paul39
They are all good rifles. What are your priorities? What kind of shooting do you plan to do? How much do you want to spend and how long are you willing to wait?


I mess around with black powder a good deal and think a cartridge gun would be fun. I'd like to hunt with it and maybe get into the silhouette shooting game. I have a three band Enfield repro and like to shoot that a lot. But I think something like a Sharps would be a great hunting rifle and just fun to shoot. Maybe something like a hunter's carbine.
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#6146540 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: E Blair]
BrentD Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 11730
Loc: MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA
A hunting rifle and a silhouette rifle are pretty different actually. Took a while to convince me of that, but true nonetheless.

A Browning/Winchester 1885 bpcr is a pretty heavy rifle for hunting. Sharps can be lighter or heavier, depending on configuration. There are lighter Winchester 85s too. CSharps will make one to your specifications and a Uberti is out there with varying quality reports.

A sharps carbine or a Sharps #3 sporter with a standard weight barrel in 28-32" is a pretty nice hunting rifle and I use the latter myself. I don't really care for carbines personally, but that's just a personal thing.
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#6146741 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: BrentD]
Ranch13 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 3933
Loc: wyoming
Hunting and possible sillouette, Brent's #3 would be a good choice as would the Shiloh Montana roughrider, and the Winchester sporter model of the 1885,http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=002C&mid=534183
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the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.

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#6148062 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: Ranch13]
Swampman1 Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 1735
The Winchester High Walls are pretty inexpensive from CDNN. The Pedersoli Sharps are very accurate, well finished, available, and less expensive.
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#6148211 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: Swampman1]
jim62 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 5978
Originally Posted By: Swampman1
The Winchester High Walls are pretty inexpensive from CDNN. The Pedersoli Sharps are very accurate, well finished, available, and less expensive.


And not a damn one of them made in the USA.


Edited by jim62 (02/08/12)
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#6148227 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: jim62]
BrentD Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 11730
Loc: MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA
Originally Posted By: jim62
Originally Posted By: Swampman1
The Winchester High Walls are pretty inexpensive from CDNN. The Pedersoli Sharps are very accurate, well finished, available, and less expensive.


And not a damn one of them made in the USA.


Nice edit ---

So why did the OP want to consider Brownings?
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#6148245 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: jim62]
mtnfisher Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 791
Loc: Montana
Originally Posted By: jim62
Originally Posted By: Swampman1
The Winchester High Walls are pretty inexpensive from CDNN. The Pedersoli Sharps are very accurate, well finished, available, and less expensive.


And not a damn one of them made in the USA.

The OP obviously wants to buy a MADE IN THE USA RIFLE.

Stick your imported schit up yer azz.


Didn't see where OP stated USA rifle
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#6148416 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: BrentD]
jim62 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 5978
Originally Posted By: BrentD
Originally Posted By: jim62
Originally Posted By: Swampman1
The Winchester High Walls are pretty inexpensive from CDNN. The Pedersoli Sharps are very accurate, well finished, available, and less expensive.


And not a damn one of them made in the USA.


Nice edit ---

So why did the OP want to consider Brownings?


Because apparently, he was under the mistaken impression they were equal to Shilohs and C Sharps.

It's amazing to me that anyone would even discuss a C Sharps or Shiloh in the same sentence as a Miroku made Browning. The Montana made guns are twice the rifle and much more expensive in the field grades.. And worth every penny because Americans make them.


Edited by jim62 (02/08/12)
_________________________
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt

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#6148518 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: jim62]
Ranch13 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 3933
Loc: wyoming
The stocks on the Mirokus are American Walnut, and the barrels on the bpcr models are Badger...
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the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.

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#6148550 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: Ranch13]
jim62 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 5978
Originally Posted By: Ranch13
The stocks on the Mirokus are American Walnut, and the barrels on the bpcr models are Badger...


On rifles that the MSRP is as much as a Shiloh.

And BTW I have owned 5 Browing BPCR rifles and Badge barrels or not they would not make a zit on a Shilho's azz.

Anyone who pays $1,500+ for a Badger barreled Miroku BPCR is a damn fool.
_________________________
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt

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#6148583 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: jim62]
Ranch13 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 3933
Loc: wyoming
My aren't we in a good mood this morning crazy
No doubt about it, Shiloh's are the best, but when it comes to hiwalls, Shiloh is out, and Winchester is in, and the number of folks shooting out of the box Brownings and Winchesters and placing high or winning is fairly impressive.
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the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.

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#6148841 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: Ranch13]
jim62 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 5978
Originally Posted By: Ranch13
My aren't we in a good mood this morning crazy
No doubt about it, Shiloh's are the best, but when it comes to hiwalls, Shiloh is out, and Winchester is in, and the number of folks shooting out of the box Brownings and Winchesters and placing high or winning is fairly impressive.


I have felt that way about the Brownings for the last 10 years- not just this morning. Good guns, but not int he same league as an 1885 C Sharps High wall. And it's not because I did not give them a fair shot.

Actually the bigger fool is the idiot down in Texas who thought the Miroku made 1885s were worthy of an entire book. THAT is the definition of a fool.


Edited by jim62 (02/08/12)
_________________________
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt

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#6149433 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: jim62]
BrentD Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 11730
Loc: MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA
E Blair,
While little jim continues to have a bad hair day over the Miroku 1885s made first with the Browning moniker and later with the Winchester label, rest assured they are probably the most accurate bpcrs you can pull off the shelf. For certain they are not a bit less accurate than a Shiloh for instance.

Aesthetically, I find them challenging to warm up to, but they shoot extremely well. They are also remarkably reliable rifles, though the others are as well, but I think Miroku could hold a slight edge given the number of folks that have them and the very small number of complaints about them failing.

Their three biggest negatives are,
1. A less than wonderful trigger than cannot be used in "set trigger" fashion. For a small price - remarkably small actually, Lee Shaver tunes this to a very serviceable trigger suitable for the best target work

2. They are hard to take apart - or rather to reassemble once taken down. But there are tricks and jigs to make this easier.

3. Their finish does not grab me in a favorable way. But you can always refinish one if it bugs you.

In then end, master class shooters win with these rifles. They are affordable in new or used conditions and they are available. The guy that wrote the book that so bugs little jim is also very helpful with connecting people with these rifles and also often has a few to sell. He's a good guy and infinitely more friendly than little jim.

The Pedersolis are also good rifles and have a reputation for accuracy. I also don't care for their finish on metal or rifle but nothing is wrong with them and they can be match winners just as readily as a Shiloh.

I don't have anything good to say about Uberti though others like them. The one Uberti product I owned (a revolver) was mechanically poorly made that affected much more than just cosmetics.

C Sharps and Shilohs will shoot with the best, but they don't run away from a Browning/Winchester (Miroku) highwall except for when it comes to looks. In accuracy and dependability, they are AT LEAST the equal of all the rest.

Now little jim will be back with more belittling of everything and everyone, but that's just something we all have to live with.
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Save an elk, shoot a cow.

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#6149514 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: BrentD]
BrentD Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 11730
Loc: MN, WI, IL, MI, KS, GA, AZ, IA
E Blair,
Check your PMs.

Brent
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Save an elk, shoot a cow.

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#6149598 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: BrentD]
Paul39 Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 8622
This past weekend I shot in a BPCR silhouette match with a shooter who holds a Grand Slam in that event. For those not familiar with BPCR silhouette, 10-in-a-row on the longer three targets shot from prone off cross sticks is difficult, but doable. I've done it myself, but 10-in-a-row on the chickens shot offhand is simply awesome, and accomplished by only a handful of shooters. This gent may also have won at least one national championship, but I'm not certain of that.

He shoots a Browning.

Paul
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There is something about the aging process that makes you give a crap less - Clint Eastwood.

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#6149694 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: Paul39]
crossfireoops Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 47358
Loc: Southeastern AZ
wink grin cool
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#6150085 - 02/08/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: crossfireoops]
tex_n_cal Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/31/02
Posts: 17333
Loc: Back in Texas, for good!
I handled a Win/Miroku 1885 Traditional Hunter last weekend, in .32-40. No it's not made in Montana, but it's nice anyway, and no doubt strong as heck. They also had a .45-70 trad hunter, both with 28" barrels and tang sights.

I also have a B78 from the 1970's, that is just startling in accuracy, and will buy another. That said, Shilohs are just plain art. smile
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#6150600 - 02/09/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: crossfireoops]
Swampman1 Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 1735
I've shot some Shilohs and Pedersolis side by side. I bought a Pedersoli. There's little question that the Jap rifles are very well made and accurate. Of course you can't be a name dropper but you'll have a lot of money for ammo and reloading equipment.

CDNN has the Jap Winchesters for 1/2 what a Shiloh sells for.
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#6151040 - 02/09/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: Paul39]
crossfireoops Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 47358
Loc: Southeastern AZ
Originally Posted By: Paul39
This past weekend I shot in a BPCR silhouette match with a shooter who holds a Grand Slam in that event. For those not familiar with BPCR silhouette, 10-in-a-row on the longer three targets shot from prone off cross sticks is difficult, but doable. I've done it myself, but 10-in-a-row on the chickens shot offhand is simply awesome, and accomplished by only a handful of shooters. This gent may also have won at least one national championship, but I'm not certain of that.

He shoots a Browning.




Paul


Hey, it was fun watching you set us up with all those "misses", than change ammo and shoot so well.

People, Paul has this Lilja Barreled Miruko Low wall, wearing MVA glass that would call out all the definitions of envy,.....

Having him around, and hanging out with him is the TRULY enviable part of the game, hope he'll return and whup up on us again.

GTC
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Member, Clan of the Border Rats

-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain













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#6151132 - 02/09/12 Re: C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps, high wall or 1873? [Re: tex_n_cal]
1minute Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 16804
Loc: Burns/Hines, Oregon, USA
Quote:
Shilohs are just plain art


True indeed. Short of a high dollar hand made custom unit, I think Shiloh does the finest production work of any US maker. They can certainly stand with folks like Holland & Holland too. One can not fit a human hair between wood and metal on their rifles. I do a little stockmaking, and can only dream of accomplishing the fit on their rifles. Absolute perfection.


Edited by 1minute (02/09/12)
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