NIKON PROSTAFF - 480 CLICKS OF CAN-DO!
 

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#6170064 - 02/13/12 Fin clipping?
macrabbit Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: C. Calif
Got an email notice from F&G warning against adipose fin clipping.
Sure, I could google the subject. But I've got you'all!

What's that all about?
Why would someone circumcise a fish? Why would the Dept. care?
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#6170551 - 02/13/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: macrabbit]
sgt217 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 4987
Loc: Arizonan transplanted to N Wis...
People do it to see if they recatch released fish. The Game and Fish do it to collect survey data. It messes them up when others do it.
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#6170649 - 02/13/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: sgt217]
macrabbit Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: C. Calif
Huh.
OK, thanks.

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#6170659 - 02/13/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: macrabbit]
sgt217 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 4987
Loc: Arizonan transplanted to N Wis...
It's a survey tool for game and fish and when others do it it messes with their numbers...and heads...
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#6170681 - 02/13/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: macrabbit]
macrabbit Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: C. Calif
If the Dept. clips fins, then an angler doesn't know if his catch is an F&G pet or a released- making his efforts worthless.

I can see the potential for all sorts of strange clipping combos, then, to identify fish like cattle. Double notches in the dorsal, opposing snippets out of the top fluke, etc. We might need a central registration office, to record fish brands!

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#6170697 - 02/13/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: sgt217]
macrabbit Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: C. Calif
BTW, how's Owen's tying coming along?

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#6170817 - 02/13/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: macrabbit]
sgt217 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 4987
Loc: Arizonan transplanted to N Wis...
It's hockey season, but when that ends he will be back at it....He did well fishing last year catching fish on a few aztecs you sent him, along with catching his first on one he tied....
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#6170905 - 02/13/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: sgt217]
Sitka deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 26320
Loc: Anchorage, AK USA
Couple points... Salmonids are the primary fish with adipose fins (catfish is another group) as far as sport goes... and hatcheries clip the adipose to indicate the fish is a hatchery fish... which may be killed in many places, where wild fish may not be.

Clipping the adipose would make the fish a "legal" take in lots of places. That may be part of what CA is worried about.

It has long been held the adipose does nothing and clipping it has no effect on fish. Fairly recent studies have shown adipose-clipped fish actually keep their tails moving in power strokes more than 10% more than non-clipped... The hypothesis is that the fin acts a vane to increase efficiency, or so I read a while back.
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#6170941 - 02/13/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: sgt217]
macrabbit Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: C. Calif
Good for him!

(And bad on you for not sending me a pic! grin )
(Unless you did and I'm forgetting. frown )

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#6170950 - 02/13/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: Sitka deer]
macrabbit Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: C. Calif
So some regs read that one may keep a clipped fish (hatcher) but not an unclipped (wild/feral)?

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#6171049 - 02/13/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: macrabbit]
Sitka deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 26320
Loc: Anchorage, AK USA
Yup... Clip one and let it heal a bit and the next guy to catch it could keep it... Would also screw with their census if they run them through a wier or some such.
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Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.

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#6171075 - 02/13/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: Sitka deer]
macrabbit Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: C. Calif
Arlo Guthrie went to jail for litterin'. I'd hate to be the one to admit to a gang-banger that I was in for fin clippin'.

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#6171384 - 02/14/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: macrabbit]
ColdBore Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8759
Originally Posted By: macrabbit
Arlo Guthrie went to jail for litterin'. I'd hate to be the one to admit to a gang-banger that I was in for fin clippin'.


Great song!

I can just see you sitting on the bench, trying to impress (or completely baffle) them enough to make them at least slow down and wonder just how bad you really is.... laugh

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#6171421 - 02/14/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: ColdBore]
macrabbit Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: C. Calif
Quote:
And I, I walked over to the, to the bench there, and there is, Group W's where they put you if you may not be moral enough to join the Fish & Game Department after committing your special crime, and there was all kinds of mean nasty ugly looking people on the bench there. Mother xxxxxx. Father stabbers. Father xxxxxx! Father xxxxxx sitting right there on the bench next to me! And they was mean and nasty and ugly and horrible crime-type guys sitting on the bench next to me. And the meanest, ugliest, nastiest one, the meanest father xxxxx of them all, was coming over to me and he was mean 'n' ugly 'n' nasty 'n' horrible and all kind of things and he sat down next to me and said, "Kid, whad'ya get?" I said, "I didn't get nothing, I had to pay $50 and pick up the garbage on the stream bank." He said, "What were you arrested for, kid?" And I said, "Fin clipping." And they all moved away from me on the bench there, and the hairy eyeball and all kinds of mean nasty things, till I said, "And creating a nuisance." And they all came back, shook my hand, and we had a great time on the bench, talkin about crime, mother stabbing, father xxxxxx, all kinds of groovy things that we was talking about on the bench. And everything was fine, we was smoking cigarettes and all kinds of things, until the Sargeant came over...


Edited by macrabbit (02/14/12)
Edit Reason: xcleaning

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#6173003 - 02/14/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: macrabbit]
1minute Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 16708
Loc: Burns/Hines, Oregon, USA
On some Oregon streams and off our coast the clipped adipose is definitive evidence of a hatchery fish (usually used for steelhead and salmon). Other fins and jaw hinges may be clipped to code source hatcheries and release points or dates. Those injuries must be completely healed over. Looking both ways and pulling out a pair of clippers is not going to generate a legal keeper.

Over all fin condition is an excellent indicator of a fishes birth place and a watchfull eye can separate hatchery and wild stocks even with the adipose present. In the crowded hatchery tanks, there is constant bickering over space, and each appendage serves as a handy bite target. That being, nearly all fins will exhibit irregularities along the edges, curved and inconsistent veination, and will be generally shorter than wild fish. The flattened lower surface of a tail is also evidence of life in a cement tank, but it can also be evidence of spawning activity in mature fish. Some of the hatchery stock may also be carrying PIT tags about the size of a grain of rice. Those can be read via sensors in fish ladders or narrower constrictions in streams. I've lost my favorites list due to a PC crash, but there is an Oregon/Washington web site somewhere that publishes daily counts of PIT tagged fish. Fairly helpful for establishing when given runs begin, end, or peak. Here's one link that I found with a brief search:

PIT tag data

Stream born fish have ample space and experience less intraspecific competition or aggression. With the exception of aged spawners, their fins are typically perfect in every way, with the dorsals being up to 30 or 40% longer than hatchery stock. That being, the white fin tips are usually present too on stream born rainbow related stocks.


Edited by 1minute (02/14/12)
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#6173015 - 02/14/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: 1minute]
macrabbit Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 4691
Loc: C. Calif
I'm surprised that no one has yet offered the possibility of clipping as an act of revenge, since the adipose is the finger they use to "thumb their noses" at fisherfolk.

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#6177467 - 02/15/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: 1minute]
ColdBore Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8759
Originally Posted By: 1minute
Those injuries must be completely healed over. Looking both ways and pulling out a pair of clippers is not going to generate a legal keeper.


I'm thinking that if somebody is doing it to allow them to pseudo-legally keep fish, that they're not stupid enough to do it on the spot.

More of a clip and release, each time increasing the odds that fish they catch (or more accurately, re-catch) on later trips will then look like a "keeper".

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#6177475 - 02/15/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: macrabbit]
ColdBore Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8759
Originally Posted By: macrabbit
...if you may not be moral enough to join the Fish & Game Department...

...I said, "I didn't get nothing, I had to pay $50 and pick up the garbage on the stream bank."

He said, "What were you arrested for, kid?" And I said, "Fin clipping." And they all moved away from me on the bench there,...


Too funny! laugh

Love that song!

It's a Thanksgiving tradition on lots of radio stations. I'm gonna go Google it up and listen to it over the morning's coffee... cool

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#6181037 - 02/16/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: ColdBore]
1minute Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 16708
Loc: Burns/Hines, Oregon, USA
ColdBore: The Game and Fish boys report seeing stream side clipping quite regularly. Many, me included, will hang keeper steelhead and let the exterior air dry before wrapping them in burlap and putting them in a cooler. Just seems to keep better without all the exterior slim weeping onto the meat.

The poachers will do a clip and then attempt to manipulate and seal the skin over the wound as it dries. Some look pretty convincing, but a few drops of water will soften the skin and reveal the wound. We've even seen LEO's make fishermen wade out and retrieve a filetted carcass to prove that a fish tagged, retained, and consumed on the river was actually fin clipped.

Can't break our ocean fish down either before reaching shore.

I once removed but did retain a head because the steelhead would not fit in my cooler. The moose and goose boys at the mouth did not like that at all. I did not get ticketed, but I did get a firm lecture.


Edited by 1minute (02/16/12)
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#6181439 - 02/16/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: 1minute]
ColdBore Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 8759
They're a lot bolder than me. shocked

I can't imagine clipping, and then trying to make it look "aged". They must be pretty desperate for a fish. crazy

I guess some guys will take big chances to keep a fish.

Myself, I'd just as soon release them (still unclipped) to play another day. smile

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#6184146 - 02/16/12 Re: Fin clipping? [Re: ColdBore]
1minute Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 16708
Loc: Burns/Hines, Oregon, USA
I don't do comabat fishing very often, but it's amazing the lengths folks will go to when there are visisble steelhead and salmon around. One would think they were starving. When the wardens work such streams, it's their lack of an ability to write quickly that slows them down. Otherwise they could probably double or triple their daily pinch rate.


Edited by 1minute (02/16/12)
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