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no he didn't. That was the difference between Buster and Shorty. That was also why Matlock could never quite measure up to Buster as a trainer. Matlock wouldn't quit riding with two hands becuause he wanted to que his horse.


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Originally Posted by RichardAustin
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One of the greastest cowboys to ever throw a leg over a horse. no weight in his stirrups.

Why do you say he has no weight in the stirrups?


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because if he rode with his weight in his stirrups he'd be wrapped around that horse's neck.


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what am I missing?
Could you make your answers more complete? I'm really trying to see your point.


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i'll give it an honest try.
if your feet/stirrups are sitting below you with your weight in them bracing, a hard stop will use the force like a pendalum and push you forward up and out of the seat. if you're "sitting" by tucking your butt underneath yourself, you melt into the horse with the stop and are riding him thru it instead of getting in his way.
someone mentioned they couldn't trot a horse without standing in their stirrups. if you have a seat and post to the inside leg not only will you be much more comfortable and less tired end of a long day, when those wild ones get to spinning in 1/2 a second you'll still be seated.


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quote form Richard Austin "The only reason he's holding the horn is too keep from using his hands."

Watch those cutters and you can see them stressing thier arms while holding on.They brace each time the horse changes direction. They remind me of these buckle bunnies that are barrle racing.I'm not saying those old guys could not ride, but they are not the only ones to ever sit a saddle.

As I mentioned, what do you do when you need your hands for other things? Your legs, feet and butt are for riding,your hands are for doing the things on horseback that you need to do.

Most of the members who post on this thread and forum spend hours in the saddle.1/2 of them are working ranchers.We don't climb on a horse and ride it for twenty minutes or just do arena riding.
I'm not a Sunday rider, and I have been riding for almost 60 years, breeding, training and riding mules for almost 45 years. So when someone comes along and says no that's is all wrong,I sure get suspecious.

Maybe there are certain disciplines than can use a different stirrup. However, for general rough country riding and puttting lots'a miles on every day. The flat bottoms tirrup and cocking that stirrup like the crooked stirrup can serve the biggest majority quite well. I don't know about the crooked stirrup because I have never tride them,butI have tried Ox bows and at the endof the day you are hurting.

Last edited by saddlesore; 02/18/12.

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Originally Posted by saddlesore
quote form Richard Austin "The only reason he's holding the horn is too keep from using his hands."

What a crock. Watch those cutters and you can see them stressing thier arms while holding on.They brace ecah time the horse changes direction.

As I mentioned, what do you do when you need your hands for other things?

If you want to have a conversation,fine,just stop blowing smoke. Most of the members who post on this thread and forum spend hours in the saddle.1/2 of them are working ranchers.We don't climb on a horse and ride it for twenty minutes or just do arena riding.


first off, thats not cutters i'm taking about, that's Buster Welch. second thing is, theres plenty of people who don't do things the best it can be done. by your logic, if i also own a gun that would make me a complete authority on that as well. i've got a pair of chaps in the tack room with over 1/2 dozen of the largest and likely most famous ranches phone number written on the inside in case i left them behind somewhere, again by your logic that likely makes me the most complete expert that ever walked... starting to see the fault of your logic? back to topic. its fine with me if you cant sit a horse or mule. just because you've found a way to keep your hapless ass mounted doesn't mean squat. Buster knew more about horses by age 18 than you'll know in two lifetimes, and with what you've said i wouldn't let you teach my mule to kick. i'll take Buster's advice over yours or anybody elses. you want a crock or smoke you just look in the mirror.


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There's no doubt that many people ride with too much weight in their stirrups. That's a common mistake. I grew up riding in both saddles and riding bareback and learned to apply bareback techniques to saddle riding. But to imply that the type of stirrup makes no difference to foot comfort .... no, I'm not going to buy that. And, there are relative differences to the amount of weight in the stirrup. Different situations will dictate that.

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Originally Posted by RichardAustin
i'll give it an honest try.
if your feet/stirrups are sitting below you with your weight in them bracing, a hard stop will use the force like a pendalum and push you forward up and out of the seat. if you're "sitting" by tucking your butt underneath yourself, you melt into the horse with the stop and are riding him thru it instead of getting in his way.
someone mentioned they couldn't trot a horse without standing in their stirrups. if you have a seat and post to the inside leg not only will you be much more comfortable and less tired end of a long day, when those wild ones get to spinning in 1/2 a second you'll still be seated.

OK. I understand that.

I'm not and don't advocate *all* one's weight in the stirrups (generally) nor do I believe any of the "stirrup-weighted" guys are advocating that. I balance my weight between stirrups and seat. For my riding, and while pulling a pack string into camp or hunting, having no weight in the stirrups, I see as a disaster waiting to happen.

In the pic you put up, Buster has his feet in the stirrups. If he had no weight in them, every time the horse changed direction, he would be out of balance laterally.

Every situation changes the weight distribution. ever see comp trail riders or endurance riders? They are standing in the stirrups most/all the way.

while we will disagree, I appreciate your response.


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Originally Posted by mtrancher
There's no doubt that many people ride with too much weight in their stirrups. That's a common mistake.


Interesting. It seems to me, novice riders ride with too little weight in the stirrups, seemingly thinking that they are in a chair on the horse's back.

Heck, there was a time I would take field jumps bareback. As you might imagine, those days are long over!


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As to cutters, regardless of their name and I'm not one, my understanding is that a cutting competition is a test of the horse rather than the rider like reining would be (although one can't do that with an untrained hoss).

Is it not true that a cutting competitor is expressly NOT ALLOWED to touch the reins once a steer is cut from the herd until it is released or time runs out?


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I was told this rule of thumb:
If your knees hurt, your stirrups are too short and your putting too much weight in the stirrups.

If your butt hurts your stirrups are too long and your not putting enough weight in your stirrups.

If everything hurts equally..........your doing it right grin grin grin


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No, you do hold the reins in one hand only, no visible ques while holding your cut, but you got to get one cut from the heard. A showman will hold his reins pretty high making a cut to let the judges know he hasen't dropped his hands yet, and you really don't want to drop your hand/reins until only one cow remains in front of you. The jockey has a bunch to do with how a horse gets marked. Don't believe all that bluster about having to hold the horn, you can't get one trained without using two hands. you got to be there to help those babies usually well into their 4 year old year.


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As an aside comment, we who vist this particular forum try to keep our threads civil. If one can't do that I suggest he go elsewhere.

Our family, myself included have enough ribbons, cups and checks in our history to back up our claims. These include about every show class there is in arenas and hundreds, if not thousands of miles pulling pack strings. I don''t live vicariously thru someone else.The mules I have rasied and trained are use all over CO and a few other states.Some have been in the Al Kaly mule train of the Shriners based here in Colorado Springs

I might not do everything the very best way,but I have done it enough to known what works and what does not.

A person is not going to be jumping over big logs, packing an elk out of some hell hole,or riding down steep grades ,etc by just sitting in the saddle using his seat.

Last edited by saddlesore; 02/18/12.

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As I'm sure you know, training is considerably different than competition...in all disciplines.


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I sure hate to see some get so lathered up over someone's seat in a saddle.

We gathered/sorted calves the last two days for a cutting in town. Close to 700 of them. They lease the calves every year. I rode with my seat, my stirrups, legs, torso, and brain. The funny thing is near as I can tell what we did to get these calves ready has almost no comparison to how they ride at the cuttings.

Most of those cutters couldn't ride outside of the arena. I'm not knocking them but cutting, rodoes, and most of the other events have become so specialized they bear little resemblence to riding in the outside world.

I've never tried the crooked stirrups. I ride 5'' bells. I get lots of support and good grip. And I couldn't force my boot all the way through if I wanted.

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Originally Posted by RichardAustin
The only reason he's holding the horn is too keep from using his hands.


Keep from using his hands to do what?






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Originally Posted by saddlesore
As an aside comment, we who vist this particular forum try to keep our threads civil. If one can't do that I suggest he go elsewhere.

Our family, myself included have enough ribbons, cups and checks in our history to back up our claims. These include about every show class there is in arenas and hundreds, if not thousands of miles pulling pack strings. I don''t live vicariously thru someone else.The mules I have rasied and trained are use all over CO and a few other states.Some have been in the Al Kaly mule train of the Shriners based here in Colorado Springs

I might not do everything the very best way,but I have done it enough to known what works and what does not.

A person is not going to be jumping over big logs, packing an elk out of some hell hole,or riding down steep grades ,etc by just sitting in the saddle using his seat.



I didn't think you'd beat to mentioning your family rasied a jackass, but sure enough you came right out with it. Tell your mother she has my sympathy. I guess lookin at life thru the eyes of a jackass suits your poor simple self since you arn't capable of distinguishing between admiration for someone who made a big contribution or to live vicariously thru someone. I can count among the horses I've rode two World Champions. Is that ribbon big enough for you? The fact that you haven't figured out how to ride off your seat doesn't bother me, i could care less how big of fool you are. But if i offer the same advice people payed me money to get for free and have to listen to your noise and nancyboy oh don't say anything back to me, well, i don't mind telling what a fool you are. Anyway, i'd think you'd be use to it by now.


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whoa......

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I show cutting horses, I work at a sale barn, and feedlot. Some of my saddles have oxbows and some have flat stirrups. I ride considerably different in a show pen than I do in an alley sorting off calves.

I would hate to think that my stirrups or saddle is what makes me to ride correctly.

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