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#6186365 - 02/17/12 06:21 AM Interesting Family Connection To Africa
hillbillybear Online   content
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One of my ancestors (a 5th great uncle from the part of the family that stayed in England) won the Victoria Cross (posthumously) during the Boer War and is buried at Driefontein.

Short Bio:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=8543814

VC Citation:

http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/vc_victoria_cross/francis_newton_parsons.htm





I have also recently discovered that I had relatives from my mother's side of the family (the part that stayed in Germany and didn't migrate to America)that fought with the Boers.


At least one rode in the same Commando as Deneys Reitz

http://www.tokencoins.com/boer/book/index.htm


I am still tracing down all the names and other information on them.


One of the big items on my Bucket List is to visit South Africa and pay my respects to my kinsmen and their comrades.





Edited by hillbillybear (02/17/12 06:21 AM)
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#6186387 - 02/17/12 06:26 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
rxgremlin Offline
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Very interesting information, you should make it an absolute priority to go to SA.

By the way how did it come about that you taught a course in colonial Africa? I have never seen anything like that offered at a college where I live. I would have taken it in a second.

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#6186394 - 02/17/12 06:29 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: rxgremlin]
jorgeI Offline
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That is SO cool! thanks for sharing with us. jorge
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#6186409 - 02/17/12 06:36 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: rxgremlin]
hillbillybear Online   content
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Originally Posted By: rxgremlin
Very interesting information, you should make it an absolute priority to go to SA.

By the way how did it come about that you taught a course in colonial Africa? I have never seen anything like that offered at a college where I live. I would have taken it in a second.


I was working as a part-time Adjunct Instructor and a slot opened up for an 8:00 AM (none of the tenured Liberals would teach that early) Themes In World History class that allowed the Instructor to totally design the course content.

It was a lot of fun to do that.
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#6186522 - 02/17/12 07:10 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
rxgremlin Offline
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I am a part time adjunct professor too but unfortunately my background isn't in history....

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#6187225 - 02/17/12 10:34 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: rxgremlin]
hillbillybear Online   content
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Originally Posted By: rxgremlin
I am a part time adjunct professor too but unfortunately my background isn't in history....



What discipline do you teach?
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#6187230 - 02/17/12 10:35 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
hillbillybear Online   content
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I am also tracking down some more references on my mother's side that say there was an African lady in Barbados who was a relative.

She was the "household manager" (read concubine) of an ancestor who ran a sugar plantation.

According to the stories, she was reputed to be a Zulu princess and the most beautiful woman in the Caribbean.

Who knows I might be related to old Shaka Zulu himself. smile


Edited by hillbillybear (02/17/12 10:36 AM)
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#6187665 - 02/17/12 12:53 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
VAnimrod Offline
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DUDE!

Minority scholarship! Minority applicant status for .gov jobs, too!

You done hit da lotto, bro... wink
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#6187694 - 02/17/12 12:59 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: VAnimrod]
Johnny Dollar Offline
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Cool stuff there, Sean!

Does that qualify you for resident status for hunting licenses is SA?

If it does, please remember that we are closely related...



Johnny $
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#6187789 - 02/17/12 01:22 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: Johnny Dollar]
VAnimrod Offline
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Um, not me, man.... HBB is the dude with the connections.
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#6188114 - 02/17/12 02:57 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: VAnimrod]
hillbillybear Online   content
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Originally Posted By: VAnimrod
DUDE!

Minority scholarship! Minority applicant status for .gov jobs, too!

You done hit da lotto, bro... wink



I was thinking more like I am heir to the throne of Zululand and now own all these thousands of hectares of land and the exclusive Royal hunting rights.


Well.. a guy can dream grin

Or I guess I could claim to be a Halfrican like Obugger and go into politics sick cry
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#6188367 - 02/17/12 04:10 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
VAnimrod Offline
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You got my vote, if'n a brutha can get a bail-out... wink
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#6188506 - 02/17/12 04:45 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: VAnimrod]
hillbillybear Online   content
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I'll put you on the "List" grin
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#6188946 - 02/17/12 06:24 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
ingwe Online   content
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hbb: this is some pretty cool beans....If you are heir to Zululand...let me know....I can be your prime minister.... whistle
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#6189125 - 02/17/12 06:59 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: ingwe]
hillbillybear Online   content
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Ok you can be the PM.

You have the leopard print drawers so you are already half way there grin
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#6189714 - 02/17/12 11:17 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
PieterKriel Offline
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HBB then you should find this rather interesting Ditsong Museums

This is one of the best museums in the country and they are always willing to assist with requests for information, especially from abroad. Maj John Keene is the curator who will refer any requests to the correct department.

It's the Anglo Boer War please! grin Them Brits came over, recognized us at the Sand River Convention and after the fact took our land that we took from other people that they took from other people. I wonder what the UN would have said about all of this? I wish paul375 would read this!!
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#6189828 - 02/18/12 03:17 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: PieterKriel]
hillbillybear Online   content
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Originally Posted By: PieterKriel
HBB then you should find this rather interesting Ditsong Museums

This is one of the best museums in the country and they are always willing to assist with requests for information, especially from abroad. Maj John Keene is the curator who will refer any requests to the correct department.

It's the Anglo Boer War please! grin Them Brits came over, recognized us at the Sand River Convention and after the fact took our land that we took from other people that they took from other people. I wonder what the UN would have said about all of this? I wish paul375 would read this!!



Thank you for the museum link. That is exactly what I am looking for.

I will be contacting Major Keene ASAP.


And you are correct, I should have correctly said Anglo-Boer War.
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#6190172 - 02/18/12 06:53 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
rxgremlin Offline
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Just out of curiosity why do few people call it the Second Boer War or the Second Anglo Boer War? There were two of them you know. In fact I was talking to a PH and she had no idea there was a first. Any thoughts?

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#6191063 - 02/18/12 11:21 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
Steve_NO Offline
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very cool, hbb.
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#6191595 - 02/18/12 02:38 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: rxgremlin]
hillbillybear Online   content
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Originally Posted By: rxgremlin
Just out of curiosity why do few people call it the Second Boer War or the Second Anglo Boer War? There were two of them you know. In fact I was talking to a PH and she had no idea there was a first. Any thoughts?




In short the two wars were caused by the tensions between British colonial policy and Boer nationalism:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/victorians/boer_wars_01.shtml


http://pinetreeweb.com/perspectives.htm

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v18/v18n3p14_Weber.html


http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/WARboer.htm


Edited by hillbillybear (02/18/12 02:42 PM)
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#6191859 - 02/18/12 04:17 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
rxgremlin Offline
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Hillbilly,

I am very familiar with the the Boer Wars I just think it is funny that almost no one mentions the first. It is like calling WWII "The World War" when in actuality there was World War I and World War II. Now the First Boer War was much shorter in duration but still.....

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#6191892 - 02/18/12 04:25 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: rxgremlin]
hillbillybear Online   content
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I agree. Its a shame that the First Boer War is largely forgotten.

Not entirely unlike the War of 1812. It is seldom mentioned in History classes any more.
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#6192414 - 02/18/12 06:55 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
medicman Offline
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That may be true in the US but not so in other countries.
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#6192581 - 02/18/12 07:42 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: medicman]
hillbillybear Online   content
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England and Canada both do a better job of teaching about the War of 1812( as well as WWI) than any school I have encountered in the USA .


Edited by hillbillybear (02/18/12 07:42 PM)
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#6192689 - 02/18/12 08:08 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: rxgremlin]
PieterKriel Offline
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Originally Posted By: rxgremlin
Just out of curiosity why do few people call it the Second Boer War or the Second Anglo Boer War? There were two of them you know. In fact I was talking to a PH and she had no idea there was a first. Any thoughts?


The politically correct term for it would be "First War of Independance" and then obviously Second one (1899 - 1902). First one only lasted about 6 months if memory serves me right. This could be why few people really knowing about it. Also, the term Anglo Boer War almost never is mentioned as the 2nd ABW.

The British were also involved in a number of battles against the Zulu Nation. Noteably the Battle of Isandlawana and the Battle of Rorkes Drift on the 18th and 19th of January 1879 which took place not too far from the Battle of Blood River (16 December 1838). In the Isandlawana battle the British suffered their biggest defeat against a non-rifle bearing opponent to date and at Rorkes Drift the most Victoria Crosses (VC's) which should be the same as the American Congressional Medal of Honor (CMO) were awarded for bravery in any battle in the British military history.
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#6192720 - 02/18/12 08:16 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: PieterKriel]
hillbillybear Online   content
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ZULU


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058777/


is a great movie about Rorke's Drift


One of the very best war movies I have ever seen.
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#6192764 - 02/18/12 08:26 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
PieterKriel Offline
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HBB I have a Brit friend who is one of only 3 registered photo safaris in the country who may conduct tours on ALL the Anglo Boer War battlefields. I'm sure the old man would take the time to talk to you if you like?

Bob Wood
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#6193151 - 02/19/12 02:46 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: PieterKriel]
hillbillybear Online   content
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Now that is my kind of vacation/tour trip.


I would definitely like to converse with this gentleman.


Edited by hillbillybear (02/19/12 03:02 AM)
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#6196391 - 02/19/12 07:47 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
PieterKriel Offline
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Be warned, he is OLD. wink In fact, when he lifts his arms you can see ancient rock paintings in his arm pits! grin

Seriously I enjoy his knowledge and his dedication. I told him about this post and he is more than willing to help in any way.
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#6196983 - 02/20/12 04:32 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: PieterKriel]
hillbillybear Online   content
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It pays to pay attention to the ancient ones.


Old Farts know lots of stuff grin
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#6196989 - 02/20/12 04:36 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
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Since we are discussing military history and such in Southern Africa, did anyone serve with or know Colonel Ron Reid-Daly or his outfit?
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#6198226 - 02/20/12 11:08 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
PieterKriel Offline
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I was unfortunately too young to and my dad too old to. I have his book and I have read it many times. He died just a short while ago unfortunately.

One of the many stories I remember about him was using a one-arm guy who could assemble and take apart an AK faster that most two handed people. There are some really great stories in the book, do you have it?
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#6198692 - 02/20/12 01:18 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: PieterKriel]
hillbillybear Online   content
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Yes, its a great volume. I once met a professor from England who took great umbrage that I spoke favorably of Reid-Daly in my lectures.

In fact the old boy damn near took a swing at me for supporting an "oppressor of the people's rights."
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#6201008 - 02/21/12 02:07 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
PieterKriel Offline
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Interesting how points of view differ! Hope you could talk some sense into him, but as is the case with most of those suckers it's like talking to door. Only difference is a door will talk more sense back to you.

One old fart who is celebrating his birthday today is 88 yo Bob. Not the one that knows about the Anglo Boer War, but ole Bob North of the Limpopo. I do not have it marked on the family birthday calendar, no sir, it was on radio news when I dropped the kids off at school this morning.

Now what shall I wish for his birthday...............?
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#6201148 - 02/21/12 04:56 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: PieterKriel]
hillbillybear Online   content
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It would be easier to teach my neighbor's jackass to sing Italian opera in Mandarin Chinese that it would be to talk sense to that professor from England.

Perhaps I could have beaten some sense into him. But even that would have been an all day job to get thru his hard liberal head.


Edited by hillbillybear (02/21/12 04:56 AM)
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#6201204 - 02/21/12 05:18 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
rxgremlin Offline
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Your post could be equally true about Uncle Bob north of the Limpopo.

Pieter maybe you could wish for some cholera in the party punch bowl. Maybe that way he could get a taste of what his subjects have suffered through during his reign.


Edited by rxgremlin (02/21/12 05:23 AM)

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#6201224 - 02/21/12 05:26 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: rxgremlin]
hillbillybear Online   content
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I am about half asleep this morning and it didn't register with me who Bob North of the Limpopo was.

I think a pre-frontal lobotomy with 175 grain Matchking would be just the ticket for his birthday gift.
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#6201472 - 02/21/12 06:40 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
rxgremlin Offline
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Maybe the Campfire members who have Netflix should "celebrate" Bob's birthday by watching "Mugabe and the White African". It is available streaming and if you haven't seen it please take the time to watch it.

Mugabe and the White African


Edited by rxgremlin (02/21/12 06:44 AM)

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#6201533 - 02/21/12 06:55 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
Dirtfarmer Online   content
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HBB,

Wonderful post. I enjoyed reading it and would have taken your course if given the chance. Too bad that lecture series couldn't be on DVD like so many top courses now are.

Very distinguished looking gentleman in the photo. I'm sure you're proud of your heritage, as you should be. It is fun to look back over one's heritage and ask, what would I be doing if I was alive back then?

Thanks for taking the time to post this.

DF

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#6201741 - 02/21/12 07:52 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: Dirtfarmer]
hillbillybear Online   content
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Thank you for the kind words
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#6202055 - 02/21/12 09:12 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
Dirtfarmer Online   content
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Seriously, if you ever do that lecture series again, have it video taped and make some DVD's. I would like a copy and doubt if I'm the only one.

DF

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#6202216 - 02/21/12 09:50 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: Dirtfarmer]
hillbillybear Online   content
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Me on videotape. Now that would be a hoot. grin
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#6202596 - 02/21/12 11:38 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
Dirtfarmer Online   content
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That's not too unlike the story of the prophet Balem in the Old Testament. It was the message from the Lord, spoken by Balem's donkey, that saved the ole boy's bacon. Bottom line, it's not the messenger, it's the message... smile

So, we may have to look at you on the DVD, but that would be OK. It's the message we are wanting to hear... laugh

BTW, there are still a lot of donkeys out there preaching the Word... shocked

DF

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#6202788 - 02/21/12 12:31 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: Dirtfarmer]
hillbillybear Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Dirtfarmer
That's not too unlike the story of the prophet Balem in the Old Testament. It was the message from the Lord, spoken by Balem's donkey, that saved the ole boy's bacon. Bottom line, it's not the messenger, it's the message... smile

So, we may have to look at you on the DVD, but that would be OK. It's the message we are wanting to hear... laugh

BTW, there are still a lot of donkeys out there preaching the Word... shocked

DF




I never thought about it like that. Man, you are good for my ego. grin
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#6203326 - 02/21/12 02:40 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
medicman Offline
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I hate to be a stickler, but it was Balem's Azz (misspelled on purpose to print, substitute ss for zz)

Randy
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#6204734 - 02/21/12 07:44 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: rxgremlin]
PieterKriel Offline
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Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted By: rxgremlin
Pieter maybe you could wish for some cholera in the party punch bowl. Maybe that way he could get a taste of what his subjects have suffered through during his reign.


wink
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#6218369 - 02/25/12 03:01 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: PieterKriel]
hillbillybear Online   content
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Has anyone ran into some/one of the Mauser rifles with the Boer Free State markings on the receiver ring?
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#6218417 - 02/25/12 04:25 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
PieterKriel Offline
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War Museum Joburg, collection of Armscor in the Armscor building Pretoria and at Fort Klapperkop in Pretoria.

The latter two have most likely gone to bits due to a lack of interest and qualified personnel.

Come to think of it the National Cultural History Museum in Pretoria might just have a few examples. NCHM is part of the Ditsong Museums together with the War Museum. Person to talk to at NCHM is Jan van den Bos.
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#6218422 - 02/25/12 04:28 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: PieterKriel]
hillbillybear Online   content
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I have only seen one in the collection of a big well heeled private collector in Virginia.


How he obtained it I do not know.
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#6218536 - 02/25/12 05:31 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
PieterKriel Offline
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Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Through interesting family connections in Africa! I'll see when I'm out that way again if I can get a picture of one or more of those Mausers.
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#6218584 - 02/25/12 05:47 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: PieterKriel]
hillbillybear Online   content
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I look forward to seeing the pictures.
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#6218863 - 02/25/12 07:29 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
hillbillybear Online   content
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Here is one from the Twilight Zone file I discovered this morning while going over some of my research material:


My ancestor who won the Victoria Cross succumb from wounds received in a skirmish with the Boer Commando at Driefontien on 1 March 1900. He was buried in the Driefontein Cemetery on 2 March 1900.

A relative in England described him ( in a letter to a cousin just after his death) as a tall man with a mustache, "laughing" blue eyes, and an affable nature.


I was born on 2 March 1968, I have blue eyes, have worn a mustache since I was old enough to grow one and I am fairly tall at about 6 ft. 4.5 inches.
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#6219806 - 02/25/12 11:49 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
PieterKriel Offline
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Registered: 06/01/11
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Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
A quick email to my friend (Old Friend!) Africa Travel Services for his notes on Driefontein (Three Springs) yielded the following, which includes a run-up to the Battle of Driefontein:

15 Feb - Relieve of Kimberley by French circling from the east using a classic cavalry charge over Reit and Modder Rivers (104 days)
Broadwood - formerly relieves Kimberley
British provisions for 140,000 men in 170 wagons & 3000 oxen at Riet & Modder Rivers taken by De Wet @ Waterval Drift.

16 Feb - Roberts moves HQ to Jacobsdal
French finds Cronje's laager stretching six miles, includes woman and children

17 Feb - Robert’s first proclamation

18 Feb - Battle of Paardeberg, North bank on Modderrivier, Cronje's wagon laager halted, 10 Kms long, Kitchener orders frontal attack, 2,200 Brits killed, the most ever died in Battle while under Kitcheners command, Roberts was ill at the time, Roberts later stops the suicides.

27 Feb (Majuba Day)

Paardeberg @ 06h00 Surrender of Cronje with 4000 men to Roberts. De Wet takes Oskoppies (now Kitcheners Koppie) south of Cronje on the Modder River to make his escape, Cronje refuses and De Wet was forced to retire. Danie Theron establishes communications across the Modder River with Boers. Kitchener critised for using a frontal attack causing unnecessary British causalities.
Kruger on hearing the news states "They have taken my Majuba Day away"
Cronje & his wife where both sent to St Helena.

28 Feb - Buller’s final attempt # 4

Battle of Tugela Heights (also know as Colenso, Harts Hill & Pieters Hill) Boers retreated under heavy pressure, Siege lasted 118 Days

7 March - Battle of Poplar Grove, Kruger, Steyn, De Wet and De la Rey where almost captured, in vain De Wet attempts to stop Roberts



10 March - Battle of Driefontein, (Abraham's Kraal)

Lord Roberts split his forces into 3 columns about 16 kms apart, Gen Sir John French was leading his cavalry south of the Boer positions but Dela Rey had anticipated this and French rides straight into the Boer position which was setup to give Kruger time to build defences in Bloemfontein, 150 Boers hold 10,000 of French's colomn, when artillery arrived De la Rey retreats.
This site is near Bloemfontein between Paardeberg & west of Bloemfontein

The only one on my file is a Lt Parsons of the Essex Reg buried in Driefontein Cemetery with a VC , apparently awarded after a bayonet charge against the Boers
The dates supplied don't correlate with my time line, that doesn't mean his dates are incorrect as British scouting parties where frequent


13 March - Capture of Bloemfontein, Roberts met no resistance, OFS government moved to Kroonstad.
Within 6 weeks over 5,000 British troops where down with Typhoid (enteric fever) due to bad water and conditions on the Modder River, because of the Boer Laager upstream.
From a total of 22,000 British dead it is estimated that 14,000 died from Typhoid.
Roberts orders farms to be burnt

15 March - Roberts first proclamation, amnesty except for the leaders,
The destruction of the farms in an attempt to stop Boer supplies

16 March - Roberts names OFS -- Orange Free Colony

Well HBB there you go as far as the Global Village! I am forwarding your links to Bob so he can have a look at them also.

Pieter
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#6219897 - 02/25/12 12:13 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: PieterKriel]
hillbillybear Online   content
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That is some great information. Thanks a bunch.
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#6230898 - 02/28/12 07:41 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
PieterKriel Offline
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Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 1080
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
HillBilly I am not as fast as I used to be 20 years ago but some things are slower than I. Visited a collector wink this morning who asked not to be identified. He did not have the OVS engraved on the receivers of the 1896 Mausers as I thought he may have. However he knew about it and said the Martini Henry also had it that was made on order for the ZAR (Zuid-Afrikaanshe Republiek) South African Republic government.

He had a heck of a lot of very interesting stuff of which there were one or two he asked me not to take pictures of.

However here are a few pics of rifles from the Anglo Boer War (1899 - 1902). First Anglo Boer War was 1880 - 1881. I remembered to ask.



Above: An old flint lock original in absolute mint condition, just for the heck of it and was not used in the ABW.



Above: One of more than 10 Martini Henry's in the collection.



Above: The Mauser that belonged to Genl Beyers in almost mint condition.



Above: I cannot remember the details or even begin to translate the side loading mechanism. Anybody please do an English on this version. Below is a second picture.



Above: Loading mechanism open.



Above: A battle we would sooner forget. Most of the SA POW's were deported to Ceylon (Sri Lanka) where they had to stay busy. JZ Venter would have done the carvings with a pocket knife for the Tommy owner of that rifle. The following picture is the reverse side of the same rifle and that's how I know Venter carved it!



Above: The other side of the stock.

Due to many reasons I will hopefully have more pictures in the next few days.
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#6231008 - 02/28/12 08:12 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: PieterKriel]
hillbillybear Online   content
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Wow! Those are some FANTASTIC rifles.


What caliber was the Krag Jorgensen rifle (the one with the side loading magazine)?


Imagine the tales that would be told if these grand old guns could talk.


Thanks for getting the pictures.
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#6231070 - 02/28/12 08:31 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
Dirtfarmer Online   content
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HHB,

That Krag is probably a .30-40 unless it's been re-barreled. Looks original military to me.

Really neat stuff. Lots of history there.

Thanks, Pieter, for taking the time to post those great photos.

Do you know what caliber the Martini happens to be?

DF


Edited by Dirtfarmer (02/28/12 08:33 AM)

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#6231844 - 02/28/12 12:03 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: Dirtfarmer]
PieterKriel Offline
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Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 1080
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
There must have been 300 rifles and I asked so many questions I cannot remember 20% of the answers sorry.

I'll be sure to ask what the calibers are in the morning and get back to you in due course.

A name that kept cropping up is of Ron Bester. Bester is considered to be the highest authority on small arms of the ABW in the country. A few calls and his publishers email was found. I sent an email which bounced back so I called the white pages who said they have never heard of such a company (from the mail address) so they must have gone bust. Then I called someone else who gave the name of the town he lives in, and white pages had his number. I phoned him up and some voice said "sentrale". That caught me off guard for a moment before I realized it was still an exchange where you spoke to the guy at the post office who then manually connects your call to who you want to speak. So I just asked the operator, who spoke Afrikaans, I wanted to speak to Ron without giving his last name. No need to when the population is as sparse as in the really rural areas. He said hang on and I could hear Ron's ring tone, a few longs and some shorts inbetween. Next thing I was speaking to Ron.

Ron is the author of a book: Small arms of the Anglo Boer War by Kraal Publishers. The book is out of print but Ron still has "a limited number of copies" that I'm sure he will be willing to sign if anyone wants a copy. The book retails for R 575-00, and postage (including insurance) is an additional R 230-00. Now here's the deal: you contact him with your order and mailing address. He mails it to you and if you receive it in good order you stick the relevant amount of $ bills in an envelope and mail it back to him. He says he does some overseas travel and can use foreign currency.

If anyone wants a copy of his book please PM me for his email address that I will gladly supply.

I have never seen the book but from what I understand this is the book all local researchers use as a reference.


Edited by PieterKriel (02/28/12 12:06 PM)
Edit Reason: all has 2 l's
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#6235486 - 02/29/12 09:49 AM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: hillbillybear]
PieterKriel Offline
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Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 1080
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
The Jorgensen is a 6,5 X whatever. The guy did not have it off the cuff, and the particular Martini is a 303.
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#6236208 - 02/29/12 12:46 PM Re: Interesting Family Connection To Africa [Re: PieterKriel]
hillbillybear Online   content
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Loc: Western NC
Thanks for all the great information. I have seen one other Krag that was a 6.5x55.


Definitely Grand Old Guns.
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