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i do it like this:

scope, then bedding. then handload shorter or longer.

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If you look at what Hill Country Rifles is doing in their accurizing, most of the focus is on THE BEDDING and FREE FLOATING of the barrel. They do recrown and true the action and bolt face, but it would be easy to attack the first two issues without spending $500 and having to be without your rifle for a few weeks. T.S.

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Originally Posted by Pharmseller
Originally Posted by Popapi
I'm willing to BET THE FARM you have everything right, to say the least it's the rifle I had a WBY UL in 25-06 that did the same thing no matter what I did I COULD NOT GET IT TO SHOOT..............in turn I sent the rifle to Hill Country rifles to accurized and it came back shooting 1/2" groups with 100grn TSX...... Good luck on your rifle!

http://hillcountryrifles.com/pages/accurizing


$500.
Hoo doggy that's a chunk of change.

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P, realtalk MOST if not all of this can be done you or by a competent smith! All HC doing is bedding, floating, crowning, working trigger if needed etc. These are the things you MUST address on the LW to get it to perform CONSISTENTLY......... Once this was done on mine it was a wrap Guy, and then and ONLY then I really enjoyed shooting this lil rifle!

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Just my take. I had issues shooting light rifles from the bench. Found I had the snug them up a bit more than my standard wt. rifles or the groups would open up. Agree that some say, and some find, thinner contour bbls like some pressure. Before you go pulling anything apart, try shooting and snugging the rifle in a bit tighter to your shoulder. Make sure you're only pulling back, not putting any pressure down on the stock. If that doesn't help, then I'd look at the bedding and floating or making sure you don't have any unwanted pressure points.


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Are the guard screws tight holding the action to the stock? In particular the front screw?

If they were try shooting with the rear guard loose a half turn. If that works it needs bedding.

What do the fired primers look like? Are they the same?

What does the fired brass look like? Soot on the brass?

I just shot a 243 last Wednesday with a good load at 100 yds and it made a 2" vertical group.

I found the front guard screw to be a little loose. After tightening it made a 1/2" group at 200 yds.

Of course it can be more complicated like a guard screw that bottoms out on its end etc.


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You probably know this but, make sure you have a consistant grip on the forend and the rear of the stock the same in the bag. Make sure the sling swivels aren't rubbing on the bags. Light barreled guns show vertical really easy if your form changes slightly.

You could also try it with a business card between the barrel and the pressure points just to see if that changes anything. Definately check the Talley screw as mentioned above. I've had them too long too. 50g of big game should have pressure up there but I've had lots of vertical with some light loads of ramshot powders and huge velocity spreads. When I run ramshot a a little higher pressure things usually come together. My faux ti didn't like the Big game 120 NAB combo so I went back to RL-15.

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Good advise by others...I'd bed and float. I generally ignore the notion that a light barrel needs up pressure to shoot. If it does, I don't want it generally.Other issues crop up,like this.

If you are going to leave it bedded, at least use a softer front rest....hard, firm sandbags are sometimes hostile environments for a light tube beeded to a stiff stock....recoil forces cause the rifle to jump off the firm rest and vibrations get transmitted to the barrel, causing funky grouping,stringing, etc., like you see.

Sometimes, shooting from a softer position (like from your hands, or with a softer front rest),dampens vibrations,and the rifle will shoot better.

Floating attenuates some of this.I have seen guys with Weatherby lightweights go through the same stuff....a good bed job and floating cured it.

Last edited by BobinNH; 02/21/12.



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This is the reason I detest a buggy whip barrel...I'd float with card stock or cut up credit card and see what happens from there


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Some common themes in feedback:

Check your bedding. Might check the action screws first. Two shot group usually has something moving. When you fire, the action is bouncing back and forth between two spots.

Free floating the barrel will help with this, because it will eliminate the varying pressures caused by the little nub up towards the front of the stock, and the metal heating up and expanding.

Rear screw FIRST, then front screw. I like to do this slowly and switch back and forth.

Double check your stock, and make sure it's not making contact (free floated to the lug)

I agree with those who say keep the barrel cool and check the bedding.

I can almost guarantee a vertically stringing group is due to harmonics, which are inconsistent. If you want consistency, the barrel has to be free floated, and the action screws torqued, rear bolt first.

IV) - Loose stock fixings-two groups may form from shots in any order.

� As soon as I see vertical or horizontal stringing I know I have a pet load to work with, try small changes in seating depth until you find the sweet spot. It won't be too far away from where you are at.
� Something you'll hear over and over again about "2 in, 1 out" type of groups is to try seating in a little deeper. Lots of guys have seen groups shrink and become nice tight little triangles or clusters with that method.
� Need to play with the distance off the lands. With that much vertical dispersion the bullet has to be leaving the barrel midway through the cycle instead of at the top or bottom of the oscillation.

I'd suggest free floating first. If that does not help then check to see if the bedding is stressing ones action. The way I check that is to install a gridded bore sighter and note the crosshair coordinates. Loosen ones action screws and see if the coordinates change at all. If there is any shift at all, then bed the receiver in a completely relaxed state. I had to do that to a Weatherby Mark V and it came around beautifully.

I have new mounts on the way from Weatherby (not a fan of the current mounts, plus my other Weatherbys have the same mounts).
I'll pull the stock center the barrel. I'll also seat the bullets to 0.020" from 0.015" and see what happens.

If I have the same problem I'll shim to free float and try again. If I need to I'll bed the action.

P


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P,

You have a ton of good advise here. But, I'd like to ask a couple of questions.

In your OP, was that the only load you tried? and how many groups gave you the vertical stringing?

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No, not the only load. Other powder combinations with the same bullet were erratic. I tried some 140 gr Partitions and was very surprised at how poorly they grouped.

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Something is binding up somewhere. You sell drugs, so write yourself a script for a bedding and float job.

Last edited by CLB; 02/21/12.
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Just a thought if one shims with card stock. One should shim both the tang and recoil lug to simmply lift the action in ones stock. A shim in only one position will probably stress the receiver unless the card dimensions just happen to luckily compensate for a bedding issue.


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Why card stock and not metal shims?


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I had the exact same problem. Barrel was rubbing on swivel stud on factory stock when it heated up. Put a Hogue stock on it made sure barrel was free floated all the way to the recoil lug by sliding a dollar bill up to it. Now the thing shoots MOA with anything. Didn't bed the action aor anything else just did a trigger job. My 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by Pharmseller
Some common themes in feedback:

Check your bedding. Might check the action screws first. Two shot group usually has something moving. When you fire, the action is bouncing back and forth between two spots.

Free floating the barrel will help with this, because it will eliminate the varying pressures caused by the little nub up towards the front of the stock, and the metal heating up and expanding.

Rear screw FIRST, then front screw. I like to do this slowly and switch back and forth.

Double check your stock, and make sure it's not making contact (free floated to the lug)

I agree with those who say keep the barrel cool and check the bedding.

I can almost guarantee a vertically stringing group is due to harmonics, which are inconsistent. If you want consistency, the barrel has to be free floated, and the action screws torqued, rear bolt first.

IV) - Loose stock fixings-two groups may form from shots in any order.

� As soon as I see vertical or horizontal stringing I know I have a pet load to work with, try small changes in seating depth until you find the sweet spot. It won't be too far away from where you are at.
� Something you'll hear over and over again about "2 in, 1 out" type of groups is to try seating in a little deeper. Lots of guys have seen groups shrink and become nice tight little triangles or clusters with that method.
� Need to play with the distance off the lands. With that much vertical dispersion the bullet has to be leaving the barrel midway through the cycle instead of at the top or bottom of the oscillation.

I'd suggest free floating first. If that does not help then check to see if the bedding is stressing ones action. The way I check that is to install a gridded bore sighter and note the crosshair coordinates. Loosen ones action screws and see if the coordinates change at all. If there is any shift at all, then bed the receiver in a completely relaxed state. I had to do that to a Weatherby Mark V and it came around beautifully.

I have new mounts on the way from Weatherby (not a fan of the current mounts, plus my other Weatherbys have the same mounts).
I'll pull the stock center the barrel. I'll also seat the bullets to 0.020" from 0.015" and see what happens.

If I have the same problem I'll shim to free float and try again. If I need to I'll bed the action.

P


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Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
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Originally Posted by mjbgalt
i do it like this:

scope, then bedding. then handload shorter or longer.


Other way around. Cheapeat option first. Need to establish if it it a loa problem before soending money on the scope or rifle.
john


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Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter
Originally Posted by mjbgalt
i do it like this:

scope, then bedding. then handload shorter or longer.


Other way around. Cheapeat option first. Need to establish if it it a loa problem before soending money on the scope or rifle.
john


John,
I like how you think. My son says I'm cheap, I prefer frugal.

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Good advice here. Assuming that the rifle passes all of these checks (guard screws tight, per instructions above; bases, mounts tight; scope known good performer), if it still doesn't perform, I'd do a "poor man's" floating job just to check.

Put a piece of credit card under the front action ring, just aft of the recoil lug, tighten guard screws, front first, ensuring some downward pressure from barreled action against stock lug mortise (to ensure that the back of the recoil lug is bearing against stock). If there's a problem with the bedding, or simply if the rifle likes a free floating barrel, it will show up on your first couple of groups. If this tightens up the groups, then it's a simple matter to glass bed the rifle and free float the barrel permanently.

If this doesn't do it, I'd shop for a new rifle or barrel.

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Originally Posted by Pharmseller
Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter
Originally Posted by mjbgalt
i do it like this:

scope, then bedding. then handload shorter or longer.


Other way around. Cheapeat option first. Need to establish if it it a loa problem before soending money on the scope or rifle.
john


John,
I like how you think. My son says I'm cheap, I prefer frugal.

My PC had a coronary si I pretended I was still operational on my phone. Apologies for the typo's.
john

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