Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Ask John Barsness Questions About "Affordable Handloading."

Hi Folks:

John Barsness's latest exclusive column, "AFFORDABLE HANDLOADING," is on its way to your Inbox. If you haven't received this or previous versions, simply send your email address to rickbin24hourcampfire.com, and request to be on board for future monthly columns.

Here are links to a few select previous columns:


"Bonded Bullets"

"The Vagaries of Rifle Troubleshooting"

"Scope Height"

"Computer Ballistic Programs"

"Reloading Data"

"Triggers"

"Older Hunters, Smaller Rifles"

"Hunting Scope Magnification"

Don't forget to check out John's (and Eileen's ) other stuff at http://www.riflesandrecipes.com.

Many thanks, as usual, John!

John, thanks for the article. I enjoyed it.

I also started on a Lee Loader, though I was in my late 20s, so it didn't last long. But I still use the decapping rod that came with it to fish walnut/corncob media out of the end of my newly shined brass.

I believe you've talked before about sorting brass by neck thickness to improve handloads. You also mention you measured the concentricity of the loaded rounds out of the Lee Loader. Do you think a concentricity gauge is beneficial, or fluff?

I'm also not sure this went out via email, as I normally get the articles fine but didn't receive this one. Others may find it here:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/newsletters/SHOT_2012.html

Sorry to RickBin if we're not supposed to post the link.

A concentricity gauge is truly useful only if you're loading for the absolute finest accuracy in a rifle that will benefit.
Otherwise just rolling loaded rounds across a piece of glass (or other really flat surface) and looking for bullet wobble will tell you if they're our more than .005"--which is all the alignment most typical factory sporters can benefit from.

Have you ever come across one that had a "hard" threshold?

Well, sometimes. How's that for equivocating.

Once did an experiment with an accurate custom 7x57 with a short-throated chamber, using Hornady Light Magnum factory ammo. I bought three boxes and sorted them for bullet runout, divided the best, middle and worst batches into the three boxes. As I recall, the best box had .003" runout or less, the medium box, .004-005", and the worst box over .005".

The best box shot grouped three shots into 1/2" or so, the medium box shot around an inch, and the worst box into 1-1/2". That's pretty typical of a custom rifle, but most factory rifles have looser chambers, and sorting below .005" or so doesn't do much good.

In a really accurate varmint rifle sorting to no more than .003" will help, and in a real benchrest rifle runout of more than .001" (and sometimes even less) will normally show up on the target.

I've been playing with a 6mm PPC benchrest rifle for a few months now, and my Redding Competition dies produce ammo with no more than .0005" runout. With its best load, in neck-sized fire-formed brass, it groups five rounds into around .18" at 100 yards. With new brass the runout runs up to .003" and the groups open up to .3" or so.

The closer the tolerances the better the resolution makes sense to me.

I have a 700 VTR in 308 and it isn't capable of BR or "built" varmint rifle accuracy, but it's pretty darn good for a factory rig in an injection molded stock. It's not as linear as the custom you mentioned, and has a .005" cutoff. Above that it's 1.5 MOA or so for five shots. But .004" and less will pour ten into an inch with many load combinations.

Interesting.

Do you think a custom rifle shoots poor ammo better than a factory stick?

Or do you think the ammo is the limitation in most instances, and you have to have both a rifle that shoots well AND ammo with good concentricity to get 7- or 10-shot MOAish groups?

FWIW, I believe most rifles will shoot MOA for 3-shot groups, but I don't think that tells me much about a rifle.

With good factory rifles it's easy to demonstrate grouping differences where significant runout is the variable. Of course a bad rifle won't shoot anything well. So you'd expect that a good rifle and straight ammo are needed to get a ten shot MOA group. I've read of crooked ammo shooting well, but that's the exceptional case.

I don't know if a custom rig can "force" crappy ammo to do better, but it seems one goal of a custom is to have it shoot everything better than a factory rifle.

Thank you JB for excellent, easy to read and understand articles. They are useful and interesting reading for all of us handloaders, shooters and hunters no matter how long or short time we have been in the business.
Your incredible own knowledge database from which you are sharing information to us is really fantastic and is certainly not second to anyone else.

Thanks!

Great essay. There must be a "Powder Horn" shop in every state. The first real, old school gun shop I went to was the named the "Powder Horn." Learned alot there.

I enjoyed it and am a bit surprised that these type of articles dont generate more talk. I am guessing that this particular forum is made up of the "Choir" so to speak but saving a few bucks on ammo right now is not a bad thing with gas at over 4 dollars a gallon.
I also really like being able to load down and give my kids stuff to shoot that does not kick like a mule. Not much on my local shelves in that department.
Swap meets have been a great place to get basic gear for metalic and shotgun and the deals often include a few extra tidbits that make life easy.
With 3 shotgun presses and two more for rifle\pistol I am running short on bench space. But we are shooting a lot more for sure and the kids love it. My son killed his first mallard and black duck with his own home made steel shot loads. A very cool add on to the experience.
Can casting bullets be far off? Already make sinkers.
My favorite part was the home made funnel.
What is the most likely path to happiness in the cast your own world.

I would think a custom, well built rifle would decrease/eliminate confounding variables, such that one could actually measure just one variable: run out.

In a loose chambered, sloppy rifle, you have nothing but one big ole confounded mess all unto itself...

With one like that, you can't measure much of anything, just observe...

DF

Bob B257,

The best deals I've encountered in casting equipment are made by Lee. Their moulds are limited but pretty darn good; in fact I've used their .45-70 mould to make bullets that grouped 5 shots into an inch at 100 yards from an iron-sighted rifle (though the rifle was a custom High Wall and the sights a very sophisticated tang and front). Have also had good luck with their sizing dies that fit in a typical reloading press, as well as their cheapest electric furnace.

MD,

Excellent!

Thanks

Snake

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i don't seem to be getting these notices any more.
would you kindly reinstate me on the list

thanks

Hi John,

I am not sure if this is the correct place to post this, but here goes. I just purchased a Savage 99G take-down model made in 1929 and chambered in .303 Savage. I would like to take this rifle hunting. Do you have loads that you can suggest for this rifle? Like you, I am a huge fan of the Savage lever guns and my father has gathered a collection of them.

Thank you in advance,

Brian Webb

Brian,

One of the handy things about the .303 is that powder capacity is the same as the .30-30. Consequently any .30-30 data works great. Most of the .303 users I know shoot 170 round-noses with 4895 or a similar medium-rate powder.

Thank you. I also ordered a box of the old 190gr Winchester Silvertips just to see how they perform.