LEICA BLACK FRIDAY SPECIALS!  SAVE BIG ON ALL GEOVIDS UNTIL DECEMBER 1!

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#6188653 - 02/17/12 05:26 PM Need a load for KP1 50 cal
Hydrashocker Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 356
Loc: Colorado
So I'm headin up north to Cabela's and want to know what all I need to get as far as a good shooting off the shelf combo. Things are very hard to come by here in my town so I gotta drive a while to get to something up in the city, and I will be going on Sunday, so they will be the only ones open.

What I'm thinking I want to try first off without blowing all sorts of money out of my wallet, because I spent enough already, is set up a decent load to start out with my KP1 in 50 cal.

After much research online, I was thinking to start with Hornady 50 cal sabot with the 45 cal 240 grain XTP Mag bullet. SKU: 6727 http://www.hornady.com/store/50-Cal-Sabot-with-45-Cal-240-gr-XTP-Mag-Bullet/

Then push it out the barrel with BH209.

But what to ignite it with? Magnum 209's? I mean there is a few out there, but which one should I start out with? What's the best 209 for BH209?

Is this a good start, should I be looking elsewhere at something different. Most shots are within 200 yards, and I will be using this load on muleys and also elk. Of course elk from what I hear from my guide are 300-350 yards which is going to be tricky to say the least. This is why I was mainly looking for a lighter load and good magnum powder charge.


Going to sound partial, but I know someone that uses these bullets and has harvested some REALLY nice mule deer with em, with great results in penetration, knockdown, and better then expected weight retention at only 100 grain pellet Prodex. Grouping is sweet and at least his White handled them great. Reading the reviews, as well as my own observations leave these bullets in good standings.

Please, opinions welcome!
_________________________
I don't take sides.

Top
CI16728
#6188743 - 02/17/12 05:47 PM Re: Need a load for KP1 50 cal [Re: Hydrashocker]
wildhobbybobby Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 2339
Loc: Michigan Yooper
The two best primers for BH209 are the CCI209M and the Federal 209A. They tend to be hotter than most other 209's.

There is nothing wrong with your choice of bullet. It should do everything you ask of it.

Personally I use the .429 300 gr. XTP purchased in bulk, with the green Harvester sabot, also purchased in bulk. I like the .429/300 because it has a better ballistic shape than the .452 XTP's. The difference is not overwhelming, but every little bit counts. I would also prefer a 300 grainer on elk, but your 240 in the right place would make meat too. The 300's actually shoot pretty well out to 200 yards if you take time to learn your rifle. Personally, I wouldn't shoot any farther than that.

Use 100-110 gr. by volume of BH209. For reference, a volumetric 100 gr. charge will actually weigh about 75 grains on a scale, and a 110 grain volumetric charge would weigh about 83 grains.

If you buy your bullets by the box of 50 or 100 and your sabots in bags of 100, you save a great deal of money over the blister packs that have 20 bullets and sabots. You also won't run out after sighting your rifle in and have to search for more of the same thing, or wind up having to make a switch because you can't find them.

You can buy in bulk online from Midway and other places.


Edited by wildhobbybobby (02/17/12 06:03 PM)
_________________________
Life is like a purple antelope on a field of tuna fish...

Top
#6188918 - 02/17/12 06:19 PM Re: Need a load for KP1 50 cal [Re: wildhobbybobby]
savage62 Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 6378
Loc: Mi
Now look at all the cash your going to blow . Buy a 1 lbs can of black powder or pyrdex RS and round balls or 2- 50 packs of green sabots an 100 bullets of choist shoot for a hell of a long time and use winchester 209s or federals .Rember to keep your powder dry

Top
#6190843 - 02/18/12 10:16 AM Re: Need a load for KP1 50 cal [Re: savage62]
Hydrashocker Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 356
Loc: Colorado
LOL........savage63

Ok, then Federal it is. I will also check out these .429's your talking about. Seems like a good charge in my eyes as well. I'll see what Cabela's has to offer, looks like the weather is cooperating today so I think were going to go today instead. Got to donate a few things to the Boy's Home so it would be warmer and better weather today as well.

Also going to hit the RV show, maybe upgrade to a new RV.

Question, your talking about grain volume. What I have is a new TC U-View Black Powder Measure and with that I was planing on using around 100 grains to start, were your telling me to start out at 100-110. Is there a reason I shouldn't boost it up to like 125 grains. The gun is supposed to use charges up to 150, but I hear accuracy is compromised. However if I could find a load that is good to lets say 125 I can't see why not to use it. Might be a waste at the firing range, but I really don't care about a few cents, I'm more wanting consistency and use a load all the time regardless of either deer or elk. Not to mention that way I can get used to the gun on more of a constant basis.

As for the pellets, are they the same as loose powder by grain? In other words, is one Pyrodex 50 grain pellet the same as 50 grains of loose Pyrodex for instance, that I would measure with my powder measure.

Also is BH209 charge of lets say loose 100 grains the same basic charge as 100 grains of Pyrodex loose 100 grains?

I defiantly want to stay below the 150 grain maximum as Knight states, and I don't know exactly what they mean by that!
_________________________
I don't take sides.

Top
#6191965 - 02/18/12 04:50 PM Re: Need a load for KP1 50 cal [Re: Hydrashocker]
rick59 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 409
Loc: Indiana
Well I'm guessing that you did buy your ML barrel.
Thanks for replying to the PM I sent.

Top
#6193009 - 02/18/12 10:14 PM Re: Need a load for KP1 50 cal [Re: rick59]
wildhobbybobby Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 2339
Loc: Michigan Yooper
Blackhorn does not recommend going higher than a 120 gr. volumetric charge with any bullet weight in a muzzleloader. I definitely would not go to 150. Useful charges can be from 90 to 120 grains volumetric measure. Accuracy can vary with charge size.

Your TC powder measure would be fine to use with Blackhorn. There is always lots of confusion regarding "volumetric measuring" with blackpowder substitutes like Pyrodex and Blackhorn 209. I will try to explain it...wish me luck. In the old days when blackpowder was the only thing used in muzzleloading guns, powder charges of from 40 to 120 grains were commonly used. Since nobody carried a scale in the field, powder measures were used to dispense charges by volume. They were marked to show the approximate weight of the charge, and a 100 grain volumetric charge of blackpowder actually weighed 100 grains.

In the late 20th. century, various substitutes for blackpowder, such as Pyrodex and 777, and later Blackhorn 209 were developed. All of these substitutes were less dense than blackpowder volume for volume. So, if you weighed out 100 grains of blackpowder and 100 grains of Pyrodex, the Pyrodex would take up more space.

The substitutes were all designed to be used with the same powder measures that were used with blackpowder, and to provide about the same power at the same measure settings as blackpowder would give. There was no need to weigh charges as long as you used a volume of Pyrodex that was also a safe volume of blackpowder. The actual weight of the substitute would be about 70% to 75% of an equal volume of BP.

The problem was, if you DID weigh the charges and thought that you could use the same WEIGHT of 777, Pyrodex or whatever as blackpowder, you were actually using too much powder and might be in danger.

So, as long as you use a volumetric measure, you are OK. If you want to weigh your charges on a scale, use about 70% of the weight of a safe blackpowder charge.

Pyrodex pellets are supposed to be the same power as an nominally equal volume of Pyrodex powder...so a 50 grain pellet equals a 50 grain volumetric charge of Pyrodex powder.

Blackhorn 209 gives more power than an equal volume of Pyrodex.


Edited by wildhobbybobby (02/18/12 10:19 PM)
_________________________
Life is like a purple antelope on a field of tuna fish...

Top
#6194258 - 02/19/12 10:36 AM Re: Need a load for KP1 50 cal [Re: wildhobbybobby]
Hydrashocker Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 356
Loc: Colorado
Dude I had no idea there was a PM! All my other forum sites actually give you a message stating that you have PM by pop up. If I would have seen it I would have bought it! I sent you a PM regarding the issue as well as maybe a possibility.

Ok I think I got it wild.

However: "Blackhorn 209 gives more power than an equal volume of Pyrodex." do you mean I actually can use less BH209 by volume then Pyrodex and get the same velocity and energy, and if so by how much?

Ok, went to the city but could only find some of the things I was looking for,

BH209
Winchester 209 caps

That is all I could find but I ended up going to Sportsman's Warehouse, but at least I found the BH209, only paid $26.99 because of the sale, that's why they didn't have much. So it looks like I'll have to order the rest of what I need. I was looking at the 300 gr. XTP and really liked them, but I could only find them in .451 and no sabots. So I think I will just order everything I need outsourced.
_________________________
I don't take sides.

Top
#6196776 - 02/19/12 10:45 PM Re: Need a load for KP1 50 cal [Re: Hydrashocker]
wildhobbybobby Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 2339
Loc: Michigan Yooper
Yes, you can get the same power as Pyrodex with a smaller volume of BH209. You can look at the websites for the manufacturers for data to compare. Also, that is why you can go up to 150 gr. volume of Pyrodex in modern inlines, but shouldn't use more than 120 gr. volume of BH209...and you will actually get more power with the BH209 at those charge levels. I would estimate the difference is about 10 to 15 percent.

If the Winchester primers you bought are standard shotgun primers, they should work OK with BH209. Just don't use the special muzzleloader primers, because they are milder than regular primers to help prevent the "crud ring" that 777 can leave in the breech after firing. BH209 demands hotter primers for reliable ignition.

If you order .429 bullets online, get the green Harvester Crush Rib .429/50 sabots to use with them.


Edited by wildhobbybobby (02/19/12 10:47 PM)
_________________________
Life is like a purple antelope on a field of tuna fish...

Top
#6200591 - 02/20/12 08:12 PM Re: Need a load for KP1 50 cal [Re: wildhobbybobby]
Hydrashocker Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 356
Loc: Colorado
Went to Cal Ranch today and they had the CCI209, but they didn't have the CCI209M, is there a difference because for $4 bucks I picked them up anyway?

Also got a box of the .429's in 300 grain as you specified. They did not have the sabots so that looks to be the only thing I need to order. I'm guessing Midway is the best/cheapest?

Also I was looking at some bullets the other day for something like a smaller hollow point inlet, so more of a spear point, yet has a boat tail, and around 260-280 grains for more of a longer range bullet. IF I can find something, and IF they make specialized sabots for them it would be something I would be interested in?
_________________________
I don't take sides.

Top
#6201405 - 02/21/12 06:21 AM Re: Need a load for KP1 50 cal [Re: Hydrashocker]
wildhobbybobby Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 2339
Loc: Michigan Yooper
I don't know for sure if Midway is the cheapest but they are a great place to deal with. You could do a Google search for "Harvester Crush Rib Sabot" and probably come up with other sources.

The CCI209's should be fine. Just stay away from the special muzzleloading primers that are milder and intended for 777.

There are scads of muzzleloading bullets for use with sabots out there including many that are pointed or boat tailed. They all range from about 200 to 260 grains in weight. No matter how streamlined they appear, there isn't a great deal of difference between them in long range performance, because they are all basically pistol bullets that are relatively light and short for their caliber. The heavier (and longer) a bullet is, the better it will retain velocity.

That's why I like the .429/300 XTP. It is a bit longer than a .452 of the same weight, and it even has a more or less semi-pointed shape. Plus, it is much less expensive than the "designer" bullets and gives great terminal performance. Also, so far I have never seen an inline that didn't shoot decently with the .429/300/XTP with 100 gr. volumetric BH209.

But part of the fun is to try a variety of components and see what you like.
_________________________
Life is like a purple antelope on a field of tuna fish...

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  RickBin, SYSOP 
CLICK BANNER for HUGE SAVINGS on ZEISS OPTICS at CAMERA LAND!
Support Our Sponsors 1
Who's Online
551 registered (257heaven, 10ring1, 10gaugemag, 1234, 257Deland, 59 invisible), 1276 Guests and 328 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Support Our Sponsors 2
Forum Stats
51127 Members
72 Forums
648191 Topics
9314809 Posts

Max Online: 4366 @ 10/05/10 09:36 AM
Support Our Sponsors 3










Copyright © 2000-2015 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.