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#6194861 - 02/19/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: battue]
MontanaCreekHunter Offline
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Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 7713
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Shot my Benelli M1 Super 90 today. First registered targets of the year. Haven't shot since Aug outside of bird hunting. I SUCKED!
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#6194908 - 02/19/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: MontanaCreekHunter]
battue Offline
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Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 11202
Loc: outside the burgh
I've been practicing, you better kick it up. grin
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#6195054 - 02/19/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: battue]
MontanaCreekHunter Offline
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Registered: 06/28/08
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Loc: 99821/06810
Yeah well I am hoping to be in the acadamy this spring/summer so might not be shooting to much sporting this year. I am canidate #1 right now for one department. Keeping my fingers crossed!
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#6195073 - 02/19/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: MontanaCreekHunter]
battue Offline
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Registered: 01/11/07
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Loc: outside the burgh
It's going to happen, I'm sure of it. wink
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#6195097 - 02/19/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: Cheesy]
Oldelkhunter Online   content
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Registered: 09/28/04
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Loc: North Carolina
I am positive all the Dove guides in Argentina and Mexico sold off their Benellis and Berettas and stocked up on 1100's. grin
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#6195190 - 02/19/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: Oldelkhunter]
MontanaCreekHunter Offline
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Registered: 06/28/08
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Loc: 99821/06810
Originally Posted By: Oldelkhunter
I am positive all the Dove guides in Argentina and Mexico sold off their Benellis and Berettas and stocked up on 1100's. grin


LMAO
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#6195584 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: Oldelkhunter]
battue Offline
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Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 11202
Loc: outside the burgh
Originally Posted By: Oldelkhunter
I am positive all the Dove guides in Argentina and Mexico sold off their Benellis and Berettas and stocked up on 1100's. grin






Peta probably foot the bill for the 1100s....
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#6195724 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: battue]
Oldelkhunter Online   content
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Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 9078
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: battue
Originally Posted By: Oldelkhunter
I am positive all the Dove guides in Argentina and Mexico sold off their Benellis and Berettas and stocked up on 1100's. grin






Peta probably foot the bill for the 1100s....


It's a doves best friend
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Dec 17, 2009 Michelle Obama... "we are going to have to make sacrifices; we are going to have to change our conversation; we're going to have to change our traditions, our history; we're going to have to move into a different place as a nation."

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#6196257 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: Swampman1]
rob p Offline
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Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 5731
Loc: rhode island
I've had a Remington 1100 in constant use since 1982 and an 11-87 since "87" and neither has had a glitch. All original parts and they shoot as if they were new. I've shot trap, skeet, sporting clays, upland birds, waterfowl, deer... I would take my 11-87 in the field before I'd take any other shotgun. I've read article after article on the South American dove hunts where they use Rem 11-87s and Beretta 391s. I think the Rems kick softer and have better lines. It's been called the best pointing gun ever made. I have the Field and Stream with the 50 greatest guns ever made in the reading room, and the 1100 is there. The 391 is also. I can buy a near mint 1100 for $400 in 12 gauge, 11-87 Premier for $500 to $600. I have 2 friends who spent over $1,000 on Benellis this bird season and they like them. I offered to let them shoot my 11-87, which I think points better and I know kicks less. Neither wanted to after spending the $$$. I'll shoot mine until I can no longer lift them.
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#6196823 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: rob p]
nighthawk Offline
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Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 8066
Loc: NE South Dakota
That's because you keep them clean. Our 4-H Shooting Sports club - trap - has had five 1100's in 12 and 20 youth for 14 seasons now. We got a couple 11-87 youth models a few years ago. All function reliably, the only breakdown was a fluke gas ring problem that Remington promptly fixed. Otherwise all original parts. I think I replaced only one of those O-rings last year, it had gotten hard from the heat. In fact I was drawn into the club because they were having problems with reliability and excessive O-ring destruction. It was all in the routine maintenance.

The 1100 handles OK for me, there are others I like better. But they work.

Recoil comes in three impulses, the largest being around 50% if I remember correctly. I don't think you can do much better, but stock fit, recoil pad technology, and technique contribute to felt recoil.

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#6197264 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: Swampman1]
keith Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/08/02
Posts: 4416
I have shot 1100's since the late 70's, they are soft kickers. It is not a shot gun that you can just shoot and put away, you have to maintain it, no big deal.

The Beretta Extrema has the same fit as the 1100, I do not know about the Extrema II. The Beretta Extrama is a gas operated shotgun and you can shoot buck shot loads one handed.

Even the Beretta 390's do not kick much at all, hard to believe.

You can shoot the heck out of the Beretta's and never clean them, they will make you fall in love with a shotgun if you are recoil sensitive or shoot a lot of heavy loads.

On the other hand, the Benelli is a hard kicker, I will never own another. Benelli's are not gas operated. I had a Super Black Eagle I that turned my arm green on dove loads...Super black eagle 1...never again.


Edited by keith (02/20/12)

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#6197272 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: rob p]
Oldelkhunter Online   content
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 9078
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: rob p
I've had a Remington 1100 in constant use since 1982 and an 11-87 since "87" and neither has had a glitch. All original parts and they shoot as if they were new. I've shot trap, skeet, sporting clays, upland birds, waterfowl, deer... I would take my 11-87 in the field before I'd take any other shotgun. I've read article after article on the South American dove hunts where they use Rem 11-87s and Beretta 391s. I think the Rems kick softer and have better lines. It's been called the best pointing gun ever made. I have the Field and Stream with the 50 greatest guns ever made in the reading room, and the 1100 is there. The 391 is also. I can buy a near mint 1100 for $400 in 12 gauge, 11-87 Premier for $500 to $600. I have 2 friends who spent over $1,000 on Benellis this bird season and they like them. I offered to let them shoot my 11-87, which I think points better and I know kicks less. Neither wanted to after spending the $$$. I'll shoot mine until I can no longer lift them.


That is why Remington is now offering a 1300 dollar shotgun that copies Benelli Technology... Nothing wrong with an 1100 or 11/87 but it is not in the realm of a serious gun like a Beretta or Benelli
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Dec 17, 2009 Michelle Obama... "we are going to have to make sacrifices; we are going to have to change our conversation; we're going to have to change our traditions, our history; we're going to have to move into a different place as a nation."

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#6197300 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: Oldelkhunter]
keith Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 02/08/02
Posts: 4416
Beretta and Benelli are not even close to having the same technology, like comparing a poodle to a pit bull.

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#6197311 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: Oldelkhunter]
rob p Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 5731
Loc: rhode island
My 1100 has been in use for 30 years, and my 11-87 for 25 without a single issue. They have been widely recognized as the softest shooting most pointable shotguns ever made. I stated that the Beretta 391 is also recognized for it's ability as they are the two guns of choice for 1000 plus bird a day wing shooting outfitters down in South America. I've never, in 30 years of shooting heard one single complaint about Remington 1100s or ll-87s until they started building them off site. The Sportsman series made for Dicks, Walmart, and mass market have had problems and I don't recommend them to anyone. The 1100 and Premier 11-87 have excellent reputations.


By the way, how a gun shoots or doesn't shoot based upon how often you clean it is kind of ridiculous. We are not in combat. I clean every gun I own every time I use it. I paid good money for them and want them to last a lifetime.
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#6197356 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: keith]
Oldelkhunter Online   content
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 9078
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: keith
Beretta and Benelli are not even close to having the same technology, like comparing a poodle to a pit bull.


Who said they were ? two polar opposites in desing but they have a proven sturdy design, outstanding workmanship and need minimum maintenance and handle beautifully. I have owned a lot of semi-autos from about every manufacturer. I have a Beretta 390 and a Benelli M2. I sold a Montefeltro 20 a few months back which was a huge mistake.
_________________________
Dec 17, 2009 Michelle Obama... "we are going to have to make sacrifices; we are going to have to change our conversation; we're going to have to change our traditions, our history; we're going to have to move into a different place as a nation."

.

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#6197364 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: rob p]
Oldelkhunter Online   content
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 9078
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: rob p
My 1100 has been in use for 30 years, and my 11-87 for 25 without a single issue. They have been widely recognized as the softest shooting most pointable shotguns ever made. I stated that the Beretta 391 is also recognized for it's ability as they are the two guns of choice for 1000 plus bird a day wing shooting outfitters down in South America. I've never, in 30 years of shooting heard one single complaint about Remington 1100s or ll-87s until they started building them off site. The Sportsman series made for Dicks, Walmart, and mass market have had problems and I don't recommend them to anyone. The 1100 and Premier 11-87 have excellent reputations.


By the way, how a gun shoots or doesn't shoot based upon how often you clean it is kind of ridiculous. We are not in combat. I clean every gun I own every time I use it. I paid good money for them and want them to last a lifetime.


Rob I had a sporting clays 12 gauge 2 years ago that had absolutely the most beautiful wood on a shotgun ..outstanding. I ordered it thru my local dealer , when it came in the rear checkerimg diamonds had not been cut. I called Remington and they sent me the most gorgeous foreend and buttstock one can imagine. That is one I should have kept. That mistake will not repeat itself.
_________________________
Dec 17, 2009 Michelle Obama... "we are going to have to make sacrifices; we are going to have to change our conversation; we're going to have to change our traditions, our history; we're going to have to move into a different place as a nation."

.

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#6197654 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: Oldelkhunter]
MontanaCreekHunter Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 7713
Loc: 99821/06810
I have never been to Argentina but know of a few outfitters there all use Benelli's. I have shot in Mexico and have never seen or heard of any outfitter there that uses Remingtons. All I have seen or heard of is Benelli's and Beretta's. I am sure some small volume outfitters may use Remingtons but they are without a doubt at a disadvantage and minority.

As to cleaning, I basically never clean my Benelli's. I keep water off them and shoot the hell out of them. Try that with a Remington!
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#6197753 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: MontanaCreekHunter]
battue Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 11202
Loc: outside the burgh
Have known at least 20 individuals who went to Argentina and used the house guns. 12 and in many cases 20g Beretta's were the offerings.

Go to a heavily used SC course that offers shotguns for rent-like 30 to 40-and see what you get. Then ask them why there are none or very few Remington 1100s.


Addition: Not sure about trap or skeet, but in SC competition you are allowed two malfunctions at which time they let you shoot the targets again. After the third it is a lost bird each time. Nice to not have to worry if your shotgun has to be spotlessly clean to keep working. Especially when you may have to shoot 200 plus shells in a day and cleaning time is at a premium.

However, back to the question. If Remington 1100s are as good or better than the Beretta/Benelli, how come they are not even close to being as popular with the shooters who burn more than a few primers each year or does first hand experience account for little?


Edited by battue (02/20/12)
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#6198053 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: battue]
MontanaCreekHunter Offline
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Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 7713
Loc: 99821/06810
I am intrested in what makes a 1100 point so well. Does it point the best for all size and body shapes? Are beretta and Benelli barrels bent or something? Oh and like Battue said if they are the best pointing guns why don't you see them on the sporting clays courses? I can name more then a few in the top 25 sporting clays All-American list that shoot Beretta's and can't think of one in the top 100 that shoot a Remington. Whats say you?
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#6198229 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: MontanaCreekHunter]
battue Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 11202
Loc: outside the burgh
MCH I have to agree for me they point great as a field shotgun. The 12s are too heavy for me in the uplands, but the 20 and 28 I find nice.

All that being said, and depending on what one considers a good pointer, reliability is still the question. 10 to 20 thousand rounds a year is where the race starts and Remington 1100s of recent vintage can't compete and why for the most part they don't.

Some will say they don't shoot that much. Doesn't change the fact which one will with the least problems.


Edited by battue (02/20/12)
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#6198831 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: MontanaCreekHunter]
Redneck Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 40297
Loc: WI. - for now..
Originally Posted By: MontanaCreekHunter
I am intrested in what makes a 1100 point so well. Does it point the best for all size and body shapes?
I can only say they don't 'point' all that well for me.. smile I tried one for 5 shells at the trap range and missed all of 'em.. MUST have been the gun, naturally.. laugh laugh
Quote:
Are beretta and Benelli barrels bent or something? Oh and like Battue said if they are the best pointing guns why don't you see them on the sporting clays courses? I can name more then a few in the top 25 sporting clays All-American list that shoot Beretta's and can't think of one in the top 100 that shoot a Remington. Whats say you?
I would bet that part (emphasis there) of the reason it's not known as a true competition gun.. And those who compete look down on anyone who would dare to show up with a common Remington...

I ran into that snobbery a few times years ago when I shot in ATA tournaments.. If you didn't carry a 'P' or 'K' gun, you wouldn't get so much as the time of day.. That was a big part of the reason I quit shooting in ATA events.. That, and the games these fools would play with squad pairings, 'laying in the weeds' with shooting a lower score on purpose.. Who needs it..


Besides, I have tons more fun, spend a LOT less, and win more often in turkey shoots.. YMMV..
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#6198928 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: Redneck]
GF1 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/23/08
Posts: 2694
My only experience with an 11-87 is the last I'll have with one, and that was 21 years ago. A pheasant hunt, it was raining, and the lodge where we stayed had a couple new loaner 11-87s, not Wally World specials. I took one to save my double from a rainy morning (still regret doing so), and it turned out to be a tremendous morning for birds and dogs, but I couldn't cut a feather.

Frustrated, I shot into a dirt bank about 25 yards away, and found my trouble...it hit about 2' below point of aim (looking along a flat rib). I thought maybe I'd flinched, tried again, found I hadn't - same POI. On my shorthair's next point, I pulled unnaturally above the bird and killed it. Did that again, same technique. The barrel looked straight, but sure didn't shoot that way; I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. That, and it handled with the grace of a 2x4. I suspect it had a poor cut choke that threw the charge low, but who knows?

The 11-87 does not have the same feel to me as the 1100 either, as I usually find them agreeable and still have a fairly light one for kids to shoot. Dunno on whether the action is more reliable, and I'll trust the opinion of those with more experience than I on that.

As others have said here, what I do know is that Remingtons of any ilk are pretty scarce on target courses these days, but you see lots of Berettas.

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#6198982 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: Redneck]
battue Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 11202
Loc: outside the burgh
Originally Posted By: Redneck
I would bet that part (emphasis there) of the reason it's not known as a true competition gun.. And those who compete look down on anyone who would dare to show up with a common Remington...



Would be the exception from what I've seen and the AHs quickly rise to the surface.

Beretta 390s series shotguns are by far the common shotguns of SC and have more in common with an 1100 than a Perazzi. In 15 or so years of shooting SC have yet to here any mention anothers shotgun in a derogatory way. With the exception of those that pimp them to the point of being ugly. Which is done for the most part on the Perazzi and Krieghoffs.

One Ohio fellow can beat most all but the best with an 870pump, and none look down on him for using one.



Edited by battue (02/20/12)
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#6199087 - 02/20/12 Re: 1100 vs. New Italian Autos [Re: battue]
nighthawk Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 8066
Loc: NE South Dakota
Originally Posted By: battue
Nice to not have to worry if your shotgun has to be spotlessly clean to keep working. Especially when you may have to shoot 200 plus shells in a day and cleaning time is at a premium.

They don't have to be spotlessly clean to shoot well over 200 shells, believe me. You just have to know how to clean them. wink Not being a wise guy here. Ferinstance a common problem I've seen is carbon buildup in the gas ring which eats O-rings. Often it's smooth and looks like blued metal so you have to know what you're looking for. And it takes a lot of shooting for the carbon to build up that much. A few twists of a gas ring brush during routine cleaning prevents buildup but how many do that.

I wouldn't select an 1100 for class and there are shotguns that handle (for me anyway), three times better but at three times the cost. But for general use the 1100 is a pretty good deal.

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