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#6199267 - 02/20/12 Dog, coyote, coydog?
Ron Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 705
Loc: Magnolia Bluff, FL
As I started off St. George Island, I saw two mature eagles swooping in an agitated manner. I cut across the road and managed to get a couple of shots at long distance and crappy light of this guy before he got into the trees. In the cropped picture of the second frame, it appears that he had been nailed by the eagles.

What do you think he is?







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Magnolia Bluff, FL..............Where Heaven is a local call!

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#6199341 - 02/21/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: Ron]
stantdm Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/23/12
Posts: 1402
Loc: South Dakota
Appears to be a regular coyote to me.

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#6200676 - 02/21/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: stantdm]
CameraLandTamronPhotAdv Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/08/11
Posts: 848
Ron,
I don't know what it is for sure but you may want to take the photos down to Scipio Creek Marina to the St. Vincent's Island folks. I don't know if you are aware that they have been doing the wolf breeding program for lots of years on St. Vincents. It is not that unimaginable that one could swim over to St. George. It is one of the locations they were breeding red wolves. I think they have said they believed some of them had left the island. That was a couple of years ago that I had that conversation with them and went out to try and photograph them.
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#6200700 - 02/21/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: CameraLandTamronPhotAdv]
shrapnel Online   content
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 12985
Loc: Bozeman, MT
Forget the color, everything else is definitely coyote. No mystery, just a coyote that has been rolling in dark dirt, or some odd color phase, still nothing but a coyote that got shot with a camera instead of a 22-250...
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#6200773 - 02/21/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: shrapnel]
CameraLandTamronPhotAdv Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/08/11
Posts: 848
Again, I am not saying it is not a coyote, but I pulled out my papers from a trip to the island and there are several red wolves on a part of St. George Island(just over Sikes Cut) that is isolated by about 50 feet of water. My discussions with the folks managing the program have long believed the red wolves were actually a mix between grey wolves and coyotes. The folks down there believe their wolves have bred with coyotes. I am just curious to see what they would say. There really isn't much dark dirt down there, the island is known for it's white sandy beaches, so it would have to be an odd color phase.
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Great photography is not about being in the right place at the right time, it is about putting yourself in the right place at the right time.

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#6200795 - 02/21/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: CameraLandTamronPhotAdv]
EricM Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 5230
Loc: SoCal
Looks like a coyote to me, although it's unusual to see them in that color.

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#6200926 - 02/21/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: Ron]
1minute Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 16804
Loc: Burns/Hines, Oregon, USA
If it's recent and one could get back and check the tracks, it takes about 4 coyote tracks to fill a single wolf track. Track spacing will also be about twice that of a coyote, and theres about a 25% size difference between front and rear wolf tracks.
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#6201039 - 02/21/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: 1minute]
Ron Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 705
Loc: Magnolia Bluff, FL
Yes, I'm well aware of the the St. Vincent breeding program and plan on going by the refuge center, when they open this morning. I think it's a coyote,but it's neck and shoulders look a lot thicker than the others I've seen around here. Ours are normally not that stout. And dark soil is not in the equation, as the sand you see it on is the prevalent soil on the island.
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Magnolia Bluff, FL..............Where Heaven is a local call!

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#6201486 - 02/21/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: Ron]
mudhen Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 9970
Loc: Boot Heel of New Mexico
I have never seen a southeastern coyote, but the pelage looks nothing like any coyote that I have seen (and I have seen a lot of them). I would say coydog. The ears and nose are wrong for a red wolf, although red wolves can vary quite a bit in physiognomy and coloration.

I am not current on the latest in red wolf genetics. However, the last time I read up on them it was hypothesized that they were a hybrid swarm with genetics from coyotes, domestic dogs and gray wolves. This makes me wonder what unique genetic information it is that we are saving with the captive breeding effort.
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#6201732 - 02/21/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: mudhen]
CameraLandTamronPhotAdv Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/08/11
Posts: 848
Mudhen, that is sort of my thought here too. I have seen many of the photos of the wolves down here and they have had several dark ones before. The coyotes on the gulf coast tend to be very small and scrawny. The area they are doing the program was at one time a privately owned hunting preserve with exotics. They felt the wolves would cull the deer herds and boars on the island. I am just very curious.
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Great photography is not about being in the right place at the right time, it is about putting yourself in the right place at the right time.

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#6202029 - 02/21/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: CameraLandTamronPhotAdv]
Ron Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 705
Loc: Magnolia Bluff, FL
Tom Lewis, who was the biologist over the wolf program, was killed in a plane crash last year. Because of that I didn't have a contact at SVI. I went by the office on Scipio Creek and got the name of the bio-tech that is still on the program, and I've sent him the pictures.I'll post his thoughts.
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Capt Ron

Magnolia Bluff, FL..............Where Heaven is a local call!

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#6203161 - 02/21/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: Ron]
Ron Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 705
Loc: Magnolia Bluff, FL
Heard from the biologist at St Vincent and 2 from the ANERR and all agree that it's a coyote. As I said before the reason I questioned it's lineage was the bulk of it's front in...I guess sea food & cats suits it well!
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Magnolia Bluff, FL..............Where Heaven is a local call!

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#6203604 - 02/21/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: Ron]
GotAmmo Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 2104
Loc: Durham NC
My money's on a coydog

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#6204021 - 02/22/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: GotAmmo]
djpaintless Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/27/04
Posts: 6653
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
It's a Target..........dj
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#6204453 - 02/22/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: djpaintless]
CameraLandTamronPhotAdv Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 03/08/11
Posts: 848
Thanks Ron for getting the information. Cool pics too. I had not heard about the plane crash, I am sorry to hear it.
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Great photography is not about being in the right place at the right time, it is about putting yourself in the right place at the right time.

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#6207007 - 02/22/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: CameraLandTamronPhotAdv]
GregW Online   content
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 9806
Loc: Southern Arizona
Looks like a black coyote to me...
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#6210767 - 02/23/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: GregW]
FVA Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 7322
Loc: NY
Coy dogs are more less not.
I have seen coyotes with that coat color. Such phases remind me of a Akita.
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#6223974 - 02/26/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: FVA]
LouisB Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 12/17/07
Posts: 1690
Loc: That side of the mississippsi
Confirmation appears to be a coyote.

One would have thought it would have left before being roughed up like that! At least it appears the fur it's ruffled on it's back
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#6224083 - 02/26/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: CameraLandTamronPhotAdv]
jasontx Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 253
Loc: South Texas
My guess would be a melanistic coyote. One was killed down here in Texas a few years ago. Melanism is pretty well documented in many mammals (Black Jaguars AKA Black Panthers) although, you don't hear too many coyotes having it which would make it a very cool find. Another pigment issue is Leucism which is almost the opposite of melanism (complete opposite would be albino) I've seen several times in the wild. I shot these photos of a leucistic Red Tailed Hawk last year:

Full Size: http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5283/5247777744_cc08816530_o.jpg
and

Full Size: http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4126/5396258581_f30cefd28a_b.jpg
If it is a Melanistic coyote, I'm betting the local F&G would be interested in the find; it's pretty dang cool.
JP

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#6224252 - 02/26/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: jasontx]
jpb Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 7125
Loc: northern Sweden
Jason,

Love the flying hawk! It is now my current screensaver! smile

Very nice sharp picture too.

John

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#6224302 - 02/26/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: jpb]
jasontx Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 253
Loc: South Texas
Originally Posted By: jpb
Jason,

Love the flying hawk! It is now my current screensaver! smile

Very nice sharp picture too.

John

Thank you sir, glad to have populated someone's screen smile

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#6224345 - 02/26/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: jasontx]
jpb Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 7125
Loc: northern Sweden
Jason,

If I might bother you a bit more...

I see from the exif info that this is a 400mm lens. Would I be correct in assuming (from the image quality) that this is one of Canon's "L series" lenses?

It seems that many times when I notice a really sharp photo, it turns out to have been taken with one of those damn "L series" lenses.

If I "cheaped out" and bought something else I think I would regret it... so I keep saving my money rather than buy a "non-L" lens. frown

John

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#6225006 - 02/27/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: jpb]
jasontx Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 253
Loc: South Texas
Originally Posted By: jpb
Jason,

If I might bother you a bit more...

I see from the exif info that this is a 400mm lens. Would I be correct in assuming (from the image quality) that this is one of Canon's "L series" lenses?

It seems that many times when I notice a really sharp photo, it turns out to have been taken with one of those damn "L series" lenses.

If I "cheaped out" and bought something else I think I would regret it... so I keep saving my money rather than buy a "non-L" lens. frown

John

No bother sir...Yes, it was taken with one of those damn "L" lenses; the Canon 400mm f/5.6L to be exact. I bought it used for around a grand. Don't let the L thing get you down. I have a buddy I go bird shooting with that uses a Sigma 50-500 lens (AKA Bigma) and he usually get as good or better shots than I do. Sigma and Tamron have some very good long glass. I've been saving for the Canon 500mm L for a while and recently I've actually considered getting a Sigma 300-800 due to the HUGE price difference. While I have several L lenses, I'll be the first to admit that sometimes for that extra several hundred dollars, all you get is white paint and the reaction of people saying, "Is that an L?".


Edited by jasontx (02/27/12)

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#6226248 - 02/27/12 Re: Dog, coyote, coydog? [Re: jasontx]
jpb Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 7125
Loc: northern Sweden
Thanks for the info, Jason.

I manage the digital photos for a friend who is a great photographer, but not very computer literate.

He has (among others) one of the 800mm L lenses, and see the quality pictures from it has got me brainwashed perhaps! wink

John

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