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Beretta Tomcat. 32 ACP which is mild recoiling. Compact for concealed carry if she chooses. It's also got the tipped up barrel feature so she won't have to rack the slide (the arthritis you mentioned) Simply insert magazine and 1 round in the tipped up barrel. Pull back hammer and shoot.

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I bought my mom a 4" Security Six back around 1980 or so.

She had never fired a handgun in her life. Took her to the gravel pit and she took right to it.

I bought her a couple boxes of 38Spl for practice, and a box of 357Mag 125gr hollow point to keep in it.

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A Medium framed 4 inch bbl'ed 38 with Crimson Trace Lazergips is the way to go. Your thoughts in your original post are spot on. Too light or too short of a barrel and the recoil as well as difficulty to hit for a newbie are going to dissuade her. Any K or L Frame 38 specail, and there are a PILE of them for sale right now, with said lazer grip is going to be spot on for the purposes and parameters outlined.

No semi autos, no 32's and no mini guns need apply in this case for what you have stated, and the comments in the original post made much sense.


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Originally Posted by Waders
My 70 year old mother...her mind is made up--she is going to buy a gun to shoot burglars with.
...She is not terribly likely to carry concealed (but she already went and got her CPL, just in case), and she will likely practice about once a year or less...


Since she has prepared herself for concealed carry, doesn't plan on getting into the shooting sports, and wants this solely for personal protection, I have to go w/ a S&W J-frame stainless 5-shot hammerless revolver in .38Spl. Hammerless, so it wouldn't snag, getting it out of her purse or coat pocket, possibly causing unintended firing; less places for purse/pocket debris to jam; and so that the manual of arms is as simple as it can get: A--pull the trigger...

The utmost in dependability and simplicity.


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K frame 38 with some low recoil 38's. You could even get custom grips with crossed knitting needles.... cool

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Hmm... it appears a consensus is forming around something like this:

[Linked Image]

Those Pachmayr Compac grips really soak up the recoil, although they do increase trigger reach a bit and, in my experience, make a bit more finger pressure necessary when shooting DA.

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Originally Posted by bea175
4 inch barrel Model 10 38 Spl


Hard to beat. She may not need the adj. sights of the M-19. A slick, maybe older 60's vintage M-10 would be smooth, easier to handle than a J Frame, better trigger than a Ruger and in .38 Spec, a good compromise between stopping power and being easy to shoot. One can get a Crimson Trace grip for a K Frame. And there's always +P ammo is she wants/needs a more bang and muzzle flash.

An older lady with arthritis doesn't need an auto, even a pop up Beretta. Revolvers take less physical effort, are more straight forward, simple designs.

IMHO,

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My vote is for the Ruger SP-101. Distance from back of grip to trigger fits many women well and the heft esp. in the 3" tames recoil. A Wolff spring kit is easily installed if the pull is too much for arthritc hands. Just be sure to check for reliable primer strikes for the ammo used if lighter springs are employed. Crimson trace makes at least two laser grips for this model. No lawyer lock is a plus.

Last edited by Captain; 02/28/12.

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2.5-4" K or L frame S&W with a CT laser grip.

Plus: A basic level defensive pistol training class. Some offer women-only classes if prefered.


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Originally Posted by bcolorado
K frame 38 with some low recoil 38's. You could even get custom grips with crossed knitting needles.... cool


And BINGO! under the needles.

grin

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I saw a couple of nice older 38 Smiths at the Lacey Cabelas Gun Library last week Waders. My Mom just turned 80 and I don't know if she could handle more than that. She's a double cancer survivor and tough as nails but I have a hard time believing she could handle much more than that.

Might be hard to find a laser that would fit an older Smith. But a 3"-4" revolver loaded with target wadcutters might be just the ticket. Low pressure, low flash, low recoil. Still make for a nice training pistol or kit gun if she doesn't cotton up to it.

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Crimson Trace has a number of laser grips for the K Frame S&W, some for round butt, some for sq. butt, some fit both. Check it out on line.

I still think a 60's vintage .38 spec. M-10 S&W, 4" with Crimson Trace grips would be hard to beat. Those guns can be bought for good prices and represent a real value. It would be hard to find a modern gun that smooth. If the springs are too strong, then a Wolff spring kit would work. Brownell's has them.

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I normally recommend a K-frame S&W for non-shooters, but is she may carry concealed, a M&P9C might work. Just let her try to work the slide first.

I'm a fan of having a point-and-shoot trigger on self defense guns. Non-shooters tend to forget about safeties and that's the reason I like revolvers or semi-autos with trigger safeties. Short barrels just aren't easy to shoot.


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Looks like you've received some pretty good advice so far Waders. A couple of points of clarification:
Originally Posted by Waders
My 70 year old mother, who has a slight touch of arthritis, but is otherwise in fine health...

....one thing that you've not addressed is your mom's size/stature. It's usually only of peripheral importance except in this case due to the arthritis. Arthritis will only get worse and more debilitating in that the diminishing strength in her hands and flexibility of her fingers will cause functional shrinkage. Therefore a gun that she can comfortably manipulate and that fits well today, may not be suitable in the near future. If she's got pretty good sized hands and well developed forearm muscles, then something like a K-frame will probably be great. If a K-frame is just passable for her now, it probably won't be in the near future and you may want to consider a J-framed sized gun.
Quote

...She is not terribly likely to carry concealed (but she already went and got her CPL, just in case), and she will likely practice about once a year or less once the honeymoon with her new gun is over.

...kudos to you on your realism...I think alot of defensive weaponry is purchased with more fervor than rational anticipation. The word "likely" enters the issue of probability. It sounds low, but possible. What features would you/she want for concealability that would be irrelevant for a "night-stand" gun? Probably barrel length---possibly a shrouded hammer---maybe weight. If you genuinely think that she won't practice with the gun after a "honeymoon" with it, then the advantage of the added sight-radius for a long barrel is fairly irrelevant---ie. she won't have had the skill developed to benefit from the added precision. Barrel length then become critical only as it affects the performance of the cartridge and the handling dynamics (pointability) of the handgun and that (pointability) is a very personal thing.

Quote

I'm thinking a revolver with an exposed hammer in .38 Special. I don't know how she would deal with the "complexity" of an automatic. But, I think she'd be OK with the recoil of a .38--she's a tough chick.


....just curious as to why you feel an exposed hammer would be beneficial? Granted it allows for single action shooting and a better trigger pull, however that's a skill set that will demand practice---while not truely a "fine-motor-skill" it's adding an element of "complexity" to the equation. A dao weapon will eliminate the complexity and is pretty much good to go with only gross motor skills---takes some practice to be as accurate as with a single action trigger pull, but at bad-breath distances to the target, may not be a critical factor.

....just thoughts to ponder.

Sounds like so far a 3" or 4" K-frame is leading in the suggestions---sounds like a good idea as long as your mom's got the hand size/strength that is more than marginal--again, her hands will get weaker and functionally smaller with arthritis.

Also sounds like there is merit in a shrouded J-frame if you feel that she just might drop the gun in her purse when she goes to play bingo and/or has marginally sized hands/strength.

Of course, I could be wrong, JMO---YMMV.

Last edited by gmoats; 02/29/12.

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The Beretta TomCat in 32 ACP would be an excellent choice. I helped a lady last choose a handgun and this is what she settled on and loves it. The TomCat is no more complicated than a revolver and is easily operated by a person with limited strength. I was also surprised at out relatively easy the little pistol is to hit with. The 32 ACP is not a choice that I would make for me, but it is much better than finger nail and it is easy to carry and will not intimidate a
new shooter


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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TomCat



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I got my Mom a nice little nickel Colt Cobra in 38 Spec, I load her 125 gold-dots at 1000 fps, shes good with it, and most importantly, not afraid of it.

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Originally Posted by Waders
My 70 year old mother,

I would suggest a 4" Colt Python loaded with +P .38s or a 4" Ruger Redhawk .45 colt.

Seems strange on the surface, right? But those two guns have the lightest DA pull I've found, lighter and more manageable than the S&W revolver DA pull. With her arthritis, that might be important.

Among smaller guns I'd go with a Ruger SP101, then spend some range time changing springs and testing for reliability. Find the lightest hammer spring that gives 100% reliability, then match it with the lightest trigger spring that does always every time return the trigger for a second shot. Caliber? Well, I'm partial to the .357, but it might make a lot of sense to go with .327 Federal and if the recoil is too much, drop back to .32 mag ammo for it.

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IF you or she can afford a 4 inch Python, around $1,000-1400.00 then that WOULD be the ideal weapon as its Double action pull is just plain awsome. Best there ever has been, even better than a tunes Smith and Wesson. I did not suggest this for the reason of cost, but if the money is there, such would be /THE gun for her to have and the value is never going to go down. Short of that, mom maybe not able or willing to drop over 1K onto a handgun right now, I am still favoring one of the many K frame S&W's that just flooded the market again, with a CT lazergrip and maybe some lighter springs, if needed.


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Waders, I applaud your sensible approach to your mom's request. Good for you.

As usual, we have a bunch of folks on here recommending one handgun type over another based on their own biases. Most of this advice is next to useless.

Any certified handgun instructor who has significant experience with women as neophyte handgunners knows that the approach to each one of them has to be highly individualized. Women don't approach these questions with the same kind of logic men do. This doesn't mean they're illogical, they just have a different kind of logic based on different primary assumptions and different values. Don't try to steer a woman toward one type of gun or caliber. Just let her shoot several types, let her decide which type she likes best, and answer any questions she asks with as little bias as possible.

The way I approach this question for ANY woman is to let her try a few guns to get started, then based on how she likes those, narrow the search down some. You can go to a gunshop with an attached range that rents guns, or you can gather up some of your own guns and some of your friends' guns, whichever works better.

The first set of guns to try should all be smallish in grip frame and size, and loaded with light-recoling ammunition. I usually start with a K-frame 38 Special revolver (M65 or M66 or equivalent with 3-4" barrel), a Glock 19, and a single-action 9mm of some type, typically a 1911 clone. Ammo should be 38 Spl wadcutter loads for the revolver, and WW USA 115 gr standard pressure for the 9mm's. Let her shoot 6-20 rounds with each of them at a silhouette target at 2-3 yards distance. With the revolver, have her try both single action and double action firing. With all of them, have her load them and cock the action, put on the safety if applicable. Let her work with the manual of arms, not just the firing aspect of operating the gun.

After you've fired the 3 test guns, see which she prefers. If she likes the S&W revolver, the search is over. Get her a stainless K-frame and some GDHP loads and she's good to go. If she prefers the Glock or the 1911, you could either just buy her a Glock, or let her try a few other autos such as the S&W 6900 series (which A LOT of women LOVE due to the small gripframe and short trigger reach, very light recoil, etc), a Kahr 9mm, a Beretta M9, a Browning HP, etc. Give her some frame/grip choices to work with (eg, G19 vs G26). If she's got her heart set on a 45, then by God let her try her chosen frame/action type in a 45. Let HER make the choice as to what's suitable for her. If you do your job right, she'll make an appropriate choice.

If she doesn't like any of the above, I'd go along with jwp's recommendation and let her fire the little Beretta Tomcat. It's a helluva little pistol, very easy to operate and fire, and surprisingly accurate. Friends don't let their friends carry mouseguns, but in the case of your mom it's probably okay.

I almost guarantee you'll be surprised at what gun she'll pick. Just let it go. Make sure she shoots it enough to get happy with it.


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Very logical approach, DocRocket. I like it.

I think some of us were trying to keep it simple, but what you say makes more sense than all the posts I've read, including mine.

DF

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