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#6239310 - 03/01/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: Boggy Creek Ranger]
poboy Online   content
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Registered: 05/16/10
Posts: 6800
Loc: Central Texas
The voters in Austin, Houston and Dallas give us fits too.
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#6239322 - 03/01/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: poboy]
Boggy Creek Ranger Offline
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Registered: 01/27/01
Posts: 16015
Loc: Leon County Texas
Ain't that the living truth. frown
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#6239618 - 03/01/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: Boggy Creek Ranger]
RoninPhx Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 8571
Loc: arizona
mt. lions are a warm fuzzy for the velcor wearing save the planet group not reconizing they are a very efficient predator.
A long time ago, talking to a arizona game & fish officer about california and it's policy of lions. Ariz does get visits from california game and fish guys, seminars, and so on. It was the common concensus between the calif guys and arizona guys it was only a matter of time when lions started munching fluffy the poodle and people, which is happening from time to time here and there. Not to long ago a young lion was treed at a golf course in prescott, darted, then killed. A huge outcry from california transplants about killing the poor kitty.
Now a few years ago i attended a arizona game and fish meeting where they were discussing lions. Much changed these days from the old days on how you can take them. BUT i still can get a tag for about 14bucks which is good for a year which allows me to pop a kitty. But i am not allowed to shoot a kitty with cubs or a lactating female. Asked az game and fish about this on how you can tell she is lactating at 100yards. He laughed and said 'HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED IN ARIZONA?" He said carry a shovel and if an error was made, the worms got to eat too.
We have had a number of incidents in recent years within arizona between humans and the big cats. I am pretty sure there are several big toms living in the city limits of prescott. But the response would be different here if confronted by one. Excepting if you were a transplant from another area.
I remember coming accross a guy up near williams a couple of years ago in his cute little helmet, pants etc riding a mt bike in prime lion country. Told him he ought to rethink that, he looked kind of like a slow moving deer. Don't think he understood, and he was unarmed.
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#6239631 - 03/01/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: Boggy Creek Ranger]
RoninPhx Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 8571
Loc: arizona
Originally Posted By: Boggy Creek Ranger
Bark I'm on your side. I went to California once expecting to hate the place. Wife wanted to visit her g-father before he died. I went under duress.

I discovered that away from the cities there are some awfull good folks there but there just ain't enough of them to outvote the liberal city dwellers.

I know it must be hell on you having to watch a place you know and love go to the devil because of outside forces you have no control over whipping up on the good folks.

I hope you all can change it but I don't think the odds are good in your favor.


I have went to california since the 50's, and it was a wonderful place. Not so much any more. Those urban populations centers control the state. In the outlying areas it's God's country, filled with a lot of nice folks. That are always under the gun from the wingnuts in the big cities. I tell people it is a combination of too much dope for too many years, and floride in the water.
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#6239671 - 03/01/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: Barkoff]
700LH Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 03/06/07
Posts: 11024
Loc: Gem State
Your proving the OP's point, Barksalot

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#6239688 - 03/01/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: AKHntr]
Siskiyous6 Offline
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Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 6207
Loc: Del Norte County, State of Jef...
California looks at all of us who live here as her subjects and believes that what ever is illegal here is illegal for us to do anywhere, sort of the way the Fed feels about you earning money outside America or using drugs. O maybe it isnt only CA.
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#6239719 - 03/01/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: Siskiyous6]
Malloy805 Offline
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Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 1750
Loc: Late Great Golden State
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#6239778 - 03/01/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: Malloy805]
Whiptail Online   content
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/24/10
Posts: 1484
Loc: Austin, TX
"Mountain lion hunting in California was first banned by Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972 in five-year increments."


Interesting factoid!
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#6240010 - 03/01/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: Whiptail]
broomd Online   content
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/16/11
Posts: 3247
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: DP4
"Mountain lion hunting in California was first banned by Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972 in five-year increments."


Interesting factoid!

And RR was democrat at one time as well...the guy wasn't perfect.

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#6240019 - 03/01/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: broomd]
GeauxLSU Offline
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Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 6510
Loc: GA
Originally Posted By: broomd
Originally Posted By: DP4
"Mountain lion hunting in California was first banned by Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972 in five-year increments."


Interesting factoid!

And RR was democrat at one time as well...the guy wasn't perfect.
Anybody know what the population of lions in Cali was in 1972?
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#6240153 - 03/01/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: jryoung]
AggieDog Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 12/28/02
Posts: 3781
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: jryoung
Originally Posted By: GeauxLSU
The California hunters who sit on their thumbs about this and let the man get railroaded are going to regret it....
It's not like it's not a VERY clear warning.


Anyone can call

Contact Gov. Brown 916-445-2841 and tell him you support Commissioner Richards.

Contact the California Fish & Game Commission 916-653-4899 and support Commissioner Richards.



I just called the governor of CA, the CA Fish and Game Commission, my state senator, and my state assemblymen, and gave them my support of Dan Richards legally hunting mt lion in Id. If they were democrats, which all were except my assemblyman, they got a real earfull of my disgust with them.

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#6240161 - 03/01/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: Salmonella]
AggieDog Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 12/28/02
Posts: 3781
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: Salmonella
Thanks Keith.
You know, I've defended California's avid sportsmen for a long time, much to the monotony of many here.
I wake up, drive to work, come home to my mountain home and really don't submerge myself in the liberal, treehuggin bullsh*t that pours out of California's liberal urban cesspools.
This uproar really pissed me off....badly.

I love where I live and the hunting and fishing that I'm so fortunate to have at my doorstep.

When I read those comments, and they are in every major newspaper in this state, my blood just boils.
I could truly throw in the goddamn towel right now, this whole debacle just makes me sick to my stomach.
I'm getting a serious desire to dump this place ASAP., only it ain't that easy.
I'll have enough time on the books in August to retire.
My wife is just so attached to family here that I'm not sure I could convince her to leave.
One of my best friends moved to Western Montana a few years ago and urges me to go.
He is a hunting & trapping fool that most here couldn't compete with, so he tells me that even though I'm a Californian I'd fit in too.
I apologize to all those that have been right about this place all along.
I'll be trying to cling to my roots until the time is right.

You are a bunch of good folks and I hope I can be welcome as a neighbor some day.





Stand and fight, leaving does nothing as they will be everywhere eventually, and frankly already are, just in different numbers.

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#6240223 - 03/01/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: AggieDog]
AggieDog Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 12/28/02
Posts: 3781
Loc: Northern California
One of my friends fairly high up in the CA Dept of Fish and Game told me about 20 years ago, after the woman running along a bike trail was attacked and killed by a mountain Lion, that she was literally eaten alive. ie, she was still trying to fight off the lion after it had settled down to eat her. Real Majestic animal right. The public was never told the gruesome details and I always thought that was a huge mistake, this happened just before we voted in the famous proposition to ban mt lion hunting. What it is going to take is for someone's little kid to get eaten, not fluffy, that's not enough for the wacko's here.

I have had no less than two CA Fish and Game Wardens tell me to shot a lion if I confronted one. Just don't try to remove it, or take a picture of it. They know the lion population is out of control in CA, that's one reason our deer herds are down, but remember, real environmentalists dont care about game animals, because they hate hunters, etc, that's the real reason they love the inability to hunt lions in CA.

But for all you CA bashers, funny how you didnt win your battle on the reintroduction of the wolf.......How's that working out for ya?

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#6240268 - 03/01/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: AggieDog]
AggieDog Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 12/28/02
Posts: 3781
Loc: Northern California
That's just a reminder, CA has no griphold on environmental idiots. That's why if you vote democrat, look yourself in the mirror, as you are an enabler somewhere in the US, the dems may not be after your guns yet in your state, but when they win in the other areas, then they will be.

That's exactly why you have to stand and fight for your rights. Moving to a friendlier area only postphones the overall outcome.

Me, I hate liberals, and environmentalists everywhere in the US, not just here in CA. Your attitudes should be the same.

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#6240549 - 03/01/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: AggieDog]
nifty-two-fifty Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/23/05
Posts: 1361
Loc: Far Northstate Calif
Reading about mountain lions in California over most of my lifetime has shown that the statewide population of lions was never less than about 5,000 lions, even back in the 1960's, when there was still a decades-long $50 bounty on them. A few rugged souls even made their livings back then as lion hunters.

There is a lot of wilderness and otherwise very rugged and remote country in California. There have always been, and always will be plenty of lions.

The population may now be as high as 15,000. Under the current CA law, when Fish & Game recovers the body of a lion, they have to pay to keep it frozen. When they get enough to justify the expense, they have to rent a refrigerated truck and deliver the cats to a lab in Sacramento.

There autopsies are performed and the stomach contents are cataloged, looking for fluffies or other domestic animal remains. This is supposed to justify, or not, the number of depredation permits that are issued.

Talk about a waste of taxpayer money, in a state that is broke. Most of the smart and reasonable game wardens prefer that they not even hear about a dead mountain lion or it's circumstances.

I am told that one ranch eliminated three lions in the past year, one within fifty feet of the ranch house containing young children. I doubt that any of those three show up in the game department records. SSS is the recommended procedure for problem lions.

The same environmental idiots protecting the mountain lions now want to see the wolf brought back to California. Good grief.
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#6241895 - 03/02/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: nifty-two-fifty]
AggieDog Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 12/28/02
Posts: 3781
Loc: Northern California
You arent supposed to see a lion in broad daylight, if you do, it means the numbers are extreamly high in that area. That's why smart wardens understand, that lion needs to be eliminated as the population is too high. But that really brings up the stupidity of allowing average citizens vote on a subject they know nothing about: Population dynamics in the wild. The whole purpose of Fish and Game Divisions within states is to manage the populations of the wild animals for their benefit,and well being, and yes, quality of life. Something the concrete society (city slickers) know nothing about, yet demand it of 10 year olds who take the CA Hunters safety course. Your question should be, what does population dynamics have to do with hunter safety? Nothing, which is why the enviro's demanded it be on there, to flunk young kids taking the test. Population dynamics is the job of fish and game, not the voting public of California. But CA is so screwed up with their Proposition system. All it is now is a way to bypass the assembly if they cant pass a law, then they rile up the liberals and pass it as a Proposition. That was never the original intent of the Proposition system.

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#6242102 - 03/02/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: AggieDog]
Rancho_Loco Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 20372
Loc: The Bozone, Montana
I used to tell this to people in other states ALL THE TIME.

Get a hold of your initiative process before it phucks you. And get a law passed that prohibits wildlife laws being passed by initiative.

But I'm from California, and I shouldn't tell people how to live in their native states.. So I just keep my mouth shut now.
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#6242378 - 03/02/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: AggieDog]
700LH Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 03/06/07
Posts: 11024
Loc: Gem State
Quote:
But for all you CA bashers, funny how you didnt win your battle on the reintroduction of the wolf.......How's that working out for ya?


That was the Federal Gooberment forcing wolves down our throats, not state law passed be the citizenry.

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#6242576 - 03/02/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: 700LH]
Barkoff Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 08/02/04
Posts: 24157
Loc: Central CA
Originally Posted By: 700LH
Quote:
But for all you CA bashers, funny how you didnt win your battle on the reintroduction of the wolf.......How's that working out for ya?


That was the Federal Gooberment forcing wolves down our throats, not state law passed be the citizenry.



And who lobbied the Feds? I get that you ran from CA and now feel warm and fuzzy like liberalism is in your rear view mirror, but by your own admission it is on the way to the street in which you live. It is really counter productive to aim your dire at a state, mor so than liberalism everywhere.

In the 50's and early 60's CA was conservative, so what makes you think it can't happen to your state?
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#6242635 - 03/02/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: Barkoff]
Flyfast Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 1464
Loc: California
They've shot 4 lions in the Genesee arm of Indian Valley on depredation permits. Ask kids up that way how those 4H projects are working out.

Mountain lions killed after killing puppy and goats
Alicia Knadler
Indian Valley Editor
2/1/2012

There have been several mountain lion sightings in Indian Valley recently, causing some concern among ranchers and residents alike.

A mountain lion was taken under depredation permit Monday, Jan. 23, after it killed a border collie puppy over the weekend in Genesee, and another two lions were killed Wednesday, Jan. 25.

The puppy was taken right off a well-lit porch at the home of Brian and Heather Kingdon early Saturday evening, with adult dogs around and the owners inside watching television.

Another lion that killed goats on a neighboring ranch was still being pursued, according to local Department of Fish and Game (DFG) Warden Kyle Kroll.

Van Probst, well known for his lion tracking abilities and work with landowners and local game wardens, killed the lions.

“I think there’s two yearlings and a female,” Probst said of the first three lions seen in the Genesee area.

He thinks maybe the lion’s offspring have been recently forced out on their own and know where the easy prey is.

Kroll, local game warden formerly of Gilroy, agrees with Probst about there being more than one lion hunting in the Genesee community.

He’s awarded about six to 10 permits a year to residents with lion-versus-livestock problems.

The encounters do not surprise Probst, for he knows the lions will follow the deer down off the mountainsides in the area during periods of bad weather.

He’s received several calls lately about mountain lion sightings in Indian Valley.

“There’s a lot of them out there,” he finished.

Residents have spotted one mountain lion above Williams Valley Road, one at Stampfli Lane near Crescent Mills, and at Christmastime one along North Valley Road, about five miles from Greenville.

No humans have been killed by mountain lions in Plumas County, according to history recorded by DFG, though there have been a few close encounters reported for the region.

One such encounter related by former warden Bob Orange back in 1994 involved a fly fisherman in Yellow Creek who batted a lion about the nose with the tip of his fishing pole while he yelled for help and slowly backed up to where his friend was fishing.

Heather Kingdon reported that another lion was killed Thursday, Jan. 26, bringing the total number of Genesee lions killed under depredation permit to four.

One lion was killed with the puppy in its mouth, and the other three were killed upon returning to the goats they killed in her father’s barn.

“My father has a guard dog,” Kingdon said. “However, she was no match for three to four lions at a time.”

Warden Byron Hernandez, who issued the depredation permits, refused to comment personally, instead directing questions to his department’s official information sources.

Several contacts were attempted, unsuccessfully, before press time.

Specially protected

Mountain lions are not endangered or threatened, yet they are a specially protected animal and may not be hunted without a depredation permit.

The hunting of mountain lions was banned back in the early 1970s, when the population was low.

In the 1990s, the population had recovered enough that the state tried to reopen a limited hunting season, Kroll said, but it was stopped by litigation from animal rights groups before opening day.

Not only was it stopped, the groups pushed for legislation and a vote of the people that basically ended the ability to legally hunt lions in California.

It was mainly voters from Los Angeles and San Francisco, Kroll added, because of the money animal rights groups spent on television advertising.

To restore a managed lion population, like deer, bear and other game animals, it would take another vote of the people.

“There is a healthy population right now,” he said.

Stay safe

The DFG website offers the following tips and information:

—Do not hike, bike or jog alone, especially when mountain lions are most active: at dawn, dusk and at night.

—Keep a close watch on children.

—If an encounter occurs, do not run. Face the lion, make noise, wave your arms and try to look bigger. Pick children up. Throw rocks or sticks.

—If attacked, fight back, and call 911 immediately.

Don’t attract lions

—Don’t feed deer or other wildlife that may be prey.

—Avoid planting shrubs deer like to eat and trim brush to remove hiding places.

—Don’t leave small children or pets outside unattended, and don’t let pets outside at dawn, dusk or at night.

—Bring pet food inside to avoid attracting raccoons, skunks and other potential lion prey.

Depredation permit needed

It is illegal to hunt or kill mountain lions in California, unless one has a depredation permit issued by a DFG warden, or if it is an immediate threat to human safety.

Mountain lions that threaten people are killed immediately. Those that prey on pets or livestock can be killed after the required depredation permit is issued.

Trapping and moving mountain lions is not an option, due to potential conflicts with other lions, which inhabit more than half of the state, wherever deer are found.

To contact the DFG for a permit, call the Northern California North Coast Region office in Redding at 225-2300.



Depredation permit statistics

From 1999 to 2009, there were 2,117 depredation permits issued statewide. Of those, 54 were issued in Plumas County, 37 in Lassen and 16 in Sierra.

In DFG records dating back to 1972, the counties with the highest numbers of depredation permits issued were Mendocino, with 635 permits and 317 killed, and El Dorado, with 339 and 111 killed. Plumas, in comparison, had 106 permits and 49 killed; Lassen had 83 and 43; and Sierra had 30 and 16.

There has not been a verified mountain lion attack on a human since January 2007, when a 70-year-old man lived after being attacked while at Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park in Humboldt County.
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#6242663 - 03/02/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: Barkoff]
700LH Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 03/06/07
Posts: 11024
Loc: Gem State
Forget your Midol today barksalot?

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#6242684 - 03/02/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: 700LH]
AggieDog Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 12/28/02
Posts: 3781
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: 700LH
Quote:
But for all you CA bashers, funny how you didnt win your battle on the reintroduction of the wolf.......How's that working out for ya?


That was the Federal Gooberment forcing wolves down our throats, not state law passed be the citizenry.


Maybe in your state you dont have the US Fish and Wildlife Service, BLM, and the US Forest Service, but out west, we do, and guess what, not just in CA, but in all the western states, they are overrun with greeny environmentalists.....welcome to the club.


Edited by AggieDog (03/02/12)

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#6242699 - 03/02/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: AggieDog]
700LH Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 03/06/07
Posts: 11024
Loc: Gem State

Originally Posted By: AggieDog
Originally Posted By: 700LH
Quote:
But for all you CA bashers, funny how you didnt win your battle on the reintroduction of the wolf.......How's that working out for ya?


That was the Federal Gooberment forcing wolves down our throats, not state law passed be the citizenry.


Maybe in your state you dont have the US Fish and Wildlife Service, BLM, and the US Forest Service, but out west, we do, and guess what, not just in CA, but in all the western states, they are overrun with greeny environmentalists.....welcome to the club.




You Ca. guys are an emotional bunch, I do give ya that, ceptin you completely missed the point.

Quote:
1990
- Voters approve Proposition 117 that bans mountain lion hunting and creates a $30 million-per-year Habitat Conservation Fund


http://mountainlion.org/abouthistory.asp

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#6242778 - 03/02/12 Re: This is why people think California is full of crazy people [Re: ranger1]
1minute Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 16804
Loc: Burns/Hines, Oregon, USA
This was out a month of two ago. Insane!
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