Home Forums Birds & Dogs Shotguns First time over/under purchase - need some advice

Folks,

I'm looking to purchase my first over/under shotgun. I know very little about what's out there and what would be a wise purchase for my intended use of the gun.

I've googled up info on brands, options, etc. but I'm seeing some conflicting info. So, I'm looking for some sound advice from the 'Fire.

Here's my situation:
- I am not a serious shotgunner. My collection of scatterguns are simply a Mossberg 500 and a Remington 870. Both 12 gauge. Owned a Winnie 1300 for a few years but never warmed up to it.
- I have no intentions of competitively shooting trap, skeet, sporting clays, etc. This gun will be used for dove, quail, pheasant, and informal target practice only.
- I only shoot approx. 300-400 shells/year. I don't expect that to change.
- I'm looking for an O/U that's under 7.3 lbs. I'll carry it up and down ridges all day for Gambel's quail FAR, FAR more than I'll shoot it.
- 12 or 20 is fine. Not interested in 28 or 16.
- Do want 28" barrels.
- Don't want non-ferrous receivers.
- I don't want to spend more than ~$2000.
- I'd like something of reasonable lasting quality and reliability. Not looking for a Kreighoff or a Perazzi. But, I don't want a Stoeger or Huglu, either. I'd like this to be a gun that I can hand down to my son/grandson some day - say ~30 years from now - and expect him to get many more miles out of it.

I can't give a rational answer for why I want to buy an O/U considering how little I shoot. It's just been one of those "wishes" I've carried with me for a long time now.

Here is what my inexperienced eyes have been looking at, so far:
- Beretta Silver Pigeon
- Beretta White Onyx
- Browning Citori 725
- Winchester 101 (new model - made in Belgium)

Any info/advice will be appreciated.

Also, how can I easily determine if the gun will "fit" without shooting it? I want to avoid cheekslap and don't want to start adding spacers, comb modifications, etc. after the fact, if I can avoid it.

Looking at all the above, maybe I'm asking for too much. If so, please suggest some potential areas of compromise for me to consider.

Thanks!

I would look at Beretta first! I would go with a 20 gauge since they are made to swing fast and not recoil as much as a 12 gauge. I like to close my eyes and bring the shotgun up and open my eyes to see if it comes to where I am pointing. I also like to look at something and mount the gun to see if it comes up to my eye naturally? Not an expert in this area but this is what I do. You need to go to a gunshop and put several on your shoulder to see what you like.

I have a Citori Lightning,it fits me well and is soft shooting.
I had a Browning GTI that pounded me in the cheek.
I tried everything to soften the recoil to no avail.

I own a Citori White Lightning 16 GA (same weight and size as the 20), one of my shooting/hunting buddies owns a Browning Cynergy in 20 gauge; both fine handling and carrying guns - you just have to try them out and see what feels best to you. I bird hunted one day with a borrowed 20 gauge Franchi Renaissance - it had an aluminum receiver and steel breech-face inserts - very nice to carry but I just didn't warm up to the aluminum receiver idea.

My first over under was a Citori. I paid $1200 for it at the Browning dealer down the street. 28" barrels and screw in chokes. I couldn't get my head down on it. I also got hit in my upper teeth every time I fired. An old timer at the trap range handed me a file and said take away wood until it fits you. I scribed a line, brought it down about a quarter inch, rounded it off and it was better. I sanded it up and put a little poly on it. I shot it for 3 or 4 years until I found a Belgian Broadway trap gun. I bought it, took it out and it didn't hit me in the face. It also patterned right where I was aiming. I bought another Belgian with 26" barrels for upland hunting. That one doesn't kick me in the head either. I have 2 more in 20 gauge and both are fine too.

My best advice would be to go with a Browning Citori, the Winchester... or the Beretta 686. Which ever fits you best. You're going to be around $1500 for a field grade gun any way you do it. You need to go to a big gun store (Bass Pro, Cabelas...) that has all three. Line them up on the counter in whatever gauges you want to consider. Close your eyes and shoulder each gun. Open your eyes and see which gun lines up best with your eye. You want to be in line to see straight down the rib. If there's two beads, you want to see them as one. You really, honestly, don't need to consider anything beyond that. The guns are all high quality today. You're spending a good chunk of money and you're going to get a good gun. The gun that fits you will shoot better for you, and make you a lot happier in the long run. Don't get a particular brand stuck in your head. I've taken a file to a couple of stocks and added leather cheek pieces to others to adjust my point of aim. It's so nice when you get a gun that fits you and you don't have to.

I fired tens of thousands of rounds out of my Brownings and two tricks I would share would be that first, the mercury recoil reducer in the stock works. Second, you will feel less recoil and get slapped less in the head if you fire the bottom barrel. It's more in line with the centerline of the stock. The recoil goes straight back and the gun rises less. You'll see used trap guns have a lot more wear on the receiver behind the bottom barrel! You won't have to reign in the gun for your second shot as much either. Following a bird, firing your top barrel will make the gun rise and you have to drop back down for the second. Firing the bottom, not so much.

Good Luck.

Yeah, shoulder several different O/U's, and go with what fits you. After shooting several different O/U's in the uplands, I settled on a Beretta 686 Onyx, which I still have, and now also have a 686 Silver Pigeon I 20 and a 686 Silver Pigeon I 28. Those 686's fit me like Beretta made them for me. Did I mention I love 686's? YMMV

Your selections all sound like top quality shotguns. I would suggest handling each to get an idea how they fit and feel. Also, if you have a local club, stop by when they are shooting. Talk to the shooters and get there opinions. Likely some of them will allow you to handle and even shoot their versions of what your interested in. I know the people at my club would be glad to help and "show off their guns" .

I bought a used Browning Citori 3 years ago for much less than the $2000 in your budget. Only issues were a few light dings and worn out pad. Love the gun. Keep an eye out in the used market for the brands/models you settle on. There are deals to be had on some lightly used examples.

Good luck

Thanks to all for the advice given so far.

Regarding proper length of pull, a Google search found a statement saying that when the gun is shouldered I should have 2-3 fingers width of space between the knuckle of my thumb and the tip of my nose. Is this a sound recommendation?

Rob P: Thanks for the advice on the two-bead sight picture. Regarding looking down the rib of a one-bead barrel, how much of the rib's top surface am I supposed to see? On some guns I've noticed it's like I'm on top a low hill looking down onto a straight highway dropping in front of me - I'm able to look down and see the entire top surface of the rib like it's descending from my face. On other guns, all I can see is the bead resting on the rib's flat horizon, none of the rib's topsurface is visible to me.

Armen,

You truthfully admit you shoot shotguns little and are not a serious shotgunner.
You truthfully admit you don't know what you are supposed to see over the rib and it seems, as of yet don't know what it means.

Yet many tell you to get a gun that fits. How in the hell are you going to know?
Combine it with the fact that consciously throwing a shotgun up in a store and doing the same unconsciously in the field-the head will probably tend to be more often than not off the stock more-are two different things.

Save the money for now and shoot more. If possible shoot around some who know more than a little and make friends with some of them. Get some experience and acquire some knowledge. Get a feel for what works and what doesn't for you. Which shotguns feel right in your hands; which ones you just naturally gravitate toward.

Then you will have a foundation of what is right for you and if you will have to make any changes to make it even more so.

There is your answer. Most likely not what you wanted to hear but the truth!

As to mounting in a store and with eyes open or closed. Your whole focus doing that is planned out already. Your conscience mind has (for lack of a better word) prepaired for the results you want. Meaning you will not get your natural mount and more then likely an overly exaggerated one at that. Which is going to give you misguided fitting measurements.

If you absolutely have to buy something now, I would say buy the Beretta. Parts, smiths, and resale value are all in its favor. Good luck

1 word. Cynergy

I have one and love shooting it. thank me later

I just spent the afternoon with the Grandkids at Disney on Ice. I don't ice skate, but would like to get into it, and am willing to spend the money on some good skates. Which ones should I buy?

Or, I just watched Phil and Tiger hitting golf balls and playing a round on TV and would like to start myself; whose clubs should I get?

Or, I just watched some really good pool players on TV and would like to shoot pool a little more seriously; what brand of stick should I buy?

Most any other forum dedicated to the sport you probably would get advice that for someone new, the first choice should be too learn the basics and fundamentals of the game before worrying about what specific piece of equipment you play with.

But with shooting in America? Nope, you need this or that. Practice, acquired knowledge and experience take a backseat to equipment, and the worst thing is most are serious in believing that is the way to go.

Addition and for the record, I've made that mistake more than once.

[quote=battue]Or, I just watched some really good pool players on TV and would like to shoot pool a little more seriously; what brand of stick should I buy?[quote]

That is so easy I didn't even have to second guess myself. Southwest

But Battue its a que not a stick! LMAO

Thanks for making my point.

To us rookies it's a stick, or maybe just another of those Pa colloquialisms.

Remind me to tell you the story of shooting sporting in Montana and walking into a bar in Charlo-probably the only bar in Charlo-with a fellow who knew how to shoot pool way above average. It could have gotten ugly.

Haha and the Campfire thought I liked expensive shotguns!

My only true regret in life so far was selling my Southwest. But when you are young and dumb, well you do stupid chit!

I love to play straight pool but most like to play 8 or 9 ball. I grew up down the street from a pool hall owned by a multi-world champion straight pool player.

I can usually hold my own in a bar on the table, but have had my azz handed to me too in a bar or two on the table.

Here is the unexplainable. I am right eye dominate and shoot pool lefty.

The best case scenario is not to see the rib at all. Just a bead floating at the end. With practice, the gun will disappear and you'll just see a bead and the bird. That's the ideal for the best fit you're ever going to find. That's the gun to own.

take the bead off too. No need for it at all.

The Beretta 686/687's are slim and trim. They don't have any fat on em'. They are a joy to own and shoot. They're well designed and well made. They're good guns. Can't go wrong with one of em'.

I was looking at a Rizzini Omnium for $1700 today in 20 gauge.

Wonderful shotgun.

Used SKB shotguns or Weatherby Athenas/Orions would also fit your bill very well. I've been shooting a 12 ga Orion for 30 yrs, and only want a lighter 20 ga balanced as well. I have to cut the stock, and by doing so about an inch, somehow the darn things are about perfect.

There is a ton of great stuff in your price range. Good luck.

Armen,

I'm all for owning firearms "just because" with no other reason required, but it seems your post depicts the O/U as advantage for upland birds - it isn't. Treating yourself to a quality semi-auto would scratch the itch for a new shotgun and be a much better tool for your needs.