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Thanks Brick, good job, the fire has needed this for a while.

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Originally Posted by JD1951
From what I understand from this is in shipping a handgun thru UPS or Fedex it's required by law to notifiy UPS or Fedex that it's a handgun.
Absolutely WRONG. Look at the sections of the '68 GCA referenced in your quote:

� 922 Unlawful acts.

(a)
It shall be unlawful�

(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that�

(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector;

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm."

"� 478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(a)
No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any provision of this part.

(b) No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container indicating that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm."

Simply stated, it says this:

"It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered...to persons other than...licensed dealers...any package...in which there is any firearm...without written notice to the carrier that such firearm...is being...shipped..."

The FAQs that people keep using for reference on the BATFE's website are WRONG and do not qualify as a legally-binding determination on behalf of the BATFE or any other government entity. A written request to the BATFE's legal department -- this is an important distinction -- will produce a letter in reply on official BATFE letterhead stating that they are aware that the FAQs are WRONG as well as reaffirming what I've posted.

"The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives cannot respond to e-mail inquiries relating to technical, policy and/or legal questions. Inquiries of this nature can only be addressed through a letter outlining your questions to the following address:

"Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Office of Public and Governmental Affairs

99 New York Avenue, NE, Room 5S 144
Washington, DC 20226 USA

You will receive a written response to your inquiry."

http://www.atf.gov/contact/

I put all of this together to clear away the mountain of CRAP people keep referencing and repeating. You need to move past that.


I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted by safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted by Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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There's more baloney floating around about firearms shipping than one can pile in a day.....IMO Bricktop knows his stuff and I'd take his word on it over anyone else!

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Anyone know what the rules would be to ship a Remington 700 muzzleloader action from MN to IL. Trigger included with action but no firing pin?

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Originally Posted by billyzink
Anyone know what the rules would be to ship a Remington 700 muzzleloader action from MN to IL. Trigger included with action but no firing pin?
The '68 GCA defines a firearm as follows:

"� 921 Definitions.

(a)
As used in this chapter�

(3) The term "firearm" means (A)any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."

Notice there's no exclusion for firing pin removal nor is a firing pin included in the definition of a firearm. That bullshit old wives' tale needs to STOP.

Illinois law goes further:

"65/1.1. Definitions For purposes of this Act:

'Firearm' means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:

(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or BB gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;

(2) any device used exclusively for signaling or safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission;

(3) any device used exclusively for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition; and

(4) an antique firearm (other than a machine-gun) which, although designed as a weapon, the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon."

"'Firearm' means any device...designed to expel a projectile...by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas...excluding...an antique firearm...the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon."

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5-2011/atf-p-5300-5-illinois-2011.pdf

Federal law provides exempts muzzleloaders from the '68 GCA, while Illinois law leaves the door open for a state police bureaucrat to arbitrarily define them as firearms.

A basic Google search for "Illinois State Police" yields this:

"Do I need a valid FOID card for a muzzleloader or blackpowder gun?

Yes. In Illinois, muzzleloaders and blackpowder guns are considered firearms."

http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm

Shipment of a muzzleloader to Illinois would need to be received by a federal firearms licensee as on any other Title I weapon.


I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted by safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted by Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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If I SHIP THE TRIGGER AND ACTION SEPERATLY WOULD I BE LEGAL?
Originally Posted by Bricktop
Originally Posted by billyzink
Anyone know what the rules would be to ship a Remington 700 muzzleloader action from MN to IL. Trigger included with action but no firing pin?
The '68 GCA defines a firearm as follows:

"� 921 Definitions.

(a)
As used in this chapter�

(3) The term "firearm" means (A)any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."

Notice there's no exclusion for firing pin removal nor is a firing pin included in the definition of a firearm. That bullshit old wives' tale needs to STOP.

Illinois law goes further:

"65/1.1. Definitions For purposes of this Act:

'Firearm' means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:

(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or BB gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;

(2) any device used exclusively for signaling or safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission;

(3) any device used exclusively for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition; and

(4) an antique firearm (other than a machine-gun) which, although designed as a weapon, the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon."

"'Firearm' means any device...designed to expel a projectile...by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas...excluding...an antique firearm...the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon."

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5-2011/atf-p-5300-5-illinois-2011.pdf

Federal law provides exempts muzzleloaders from the '68 GCA, while Illinois law leaves the door open for a state police bureaucrat to arbitrarily define them as firearms.

A basic Google search for "Illinois State Police" yields this:

"Do I need a valid FOID card for a muzzleloader or blackpowder gun?

Yes. In Illinois, muzzleloaders and blackpowder guns are considered firearms."

http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm

Shipment of a muzzleloader to Illinois would need to be received by a federal firearms licensee as on any other Title I weapon.

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Originally Posted by billyzink
If I SHIP THE TRIGGER AND ACTION SEPERATLY WOULD I BE LEGAL?
Originally Posted by Bricktop
Originally Posted by billyzink
Anyone know what the rules would be to ship a Remington 700 muzzleloader action from MN to IL. Trigger included with action but no firing pin?
The '68 GCA defines a firearm as follows:

"� 921 Definitions.

(a)
As used in this chapter�

(3) The term "firearm" means (A)any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm."

Notice there's no exclusion for firing pin removal nor is a firing pin included in the definition of a firearm. That bullshit old wives' tale needs to STOP.

Illinois law goes further:

"65/1.1. Definitions For purposes of this Act:

'Firearm' means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:

(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or BB gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;

(2) any device used exclusively for signaling or safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission;

(3) any device used exclusively for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition; and

(4) an antique firearm (other than a machine-gun) which, although designed as a weapon, the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon."

"'Firearm' means any device...designed to expel a projectile...by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas...excluding...an antique firearm...the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon."

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5-2011/atf-p-5300-5-illinois-2011.pdf

Federal law provides exempts muzzleloaders from the '68 GCA, while Illinois law leaves the door open for a state police bureaucrat to arbitrarily define them as firearms.

A basic Google search for "Illinois State Police" yields this:

"Do I need a valid FOID card for a muzzleloader or blackpowder gun?

Yes. In Illinois, muzzleloaders and blackpowder guns are considered firearms."

http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm

Shipment of a muzzleloader to Illinois would need to be received by a federal firearms licensee as on any other Title I weapon.
I'm sorry, but are you F*CKING SERIOUS? You didn't understand a damned thing that was posted in response to your question, did you?

I'm going to answer AGAIN and I'm going to ask you to NOT respond in order to not pollute this thread any further.

UNDER FEDERAL LAW A FIREARM IS DEFINED AS ANY WEAPON CAPABLE OF EXPELLING A PROJECTILE AS WELL AS THE THE FRAME OR RECEIVER OF THE WEAPON -- MEANING THE ACTION.

FEDERAL LAW EXEMPTS MUZZLELOADERS FROM THE DEFINITION OF A FIREARM -- THAT'S THE MINIMUM STANDARD.

ILLINOIS LAW RECOGNIZES MUZZLELOADERS AS FIREARMS AS DEFINED BY FEDERAL LAW, MEANING ANY MUZZLELOADER SENT TO ILLINOIS WOULD NEED TO BE RECEIVED BY A VALID FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSEE AND TRANSFERRED AS A FIREARM TO THE PROSPECTIVE BUYER.

THE TRIGGER AND FIRING PIN ARE CLEARLY NOT MENTIONED IN THE DEFINITION OF A FIREARM -- THE RECEIVER IS. IF YOU WANTED TO SEND ALL OF THE PARTS MINUS THE RECEIVER TO THE BUYER YOU WOULD BE LEGAL IN DOING SO, BUT THE RECEIVER WOULD STILL NEED TO BE RECEIVED AND TRANSFERRED JUST LIKE ANY OTHER FIREARM UNDER ILLINOIS LAW.

AM I CLEAR? IS ANY OF THIS MAKING IT THROUGH TO YOU?


I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted by safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted by Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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I'm sorry, but are you F*CKING SERIOUS?(YES) You didn't understand a damned thing that was posted in response to your question, did you? (NO I DID NOT)


AM I CLEAR? IS ANY OF THIS MAKING IT THROUGH TO YOU? (GOT IT!!THX!!)

I'm going to answer AGAIN and I'm going to ask you to NOT respond in order to not pollute this thread any further. (SORRY!!! WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN)

Last edited by billyzink; 03/20/12.
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OK Question on Handguns

"There is no law requiring overnight shipping services to be used, nor is there any law requiring you to notify anyone you�re shipping a firearm provided the recipient is a federal firearms licensee. "


So what do you list contents as for Fedex and UPS? What if it gets lost or damaged?


https://thehandloadinglog.wordpress.com
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Originally Posted by Fotis
OK Question on Handguns

"There is no law requiring overnight shipping services to be used, nor is there any law requiring you to notify anyone you�re shipping a firearm provided the recipient is a federal firearms licensee. "


So what do you list contents as for Fedex and UPS? What if it gets lost or damaged?
If you sign up for an account to create your own shipping labels, you'll never be asked to list anything, in person or on the form.

If you find yourself compelled to tell the person at the shipping counter your package's contents, "machined tool parts" or "machined forgings" works just fine.

A loss is covered regardless.


I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted by safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted by Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
IC B3

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Thank you sir


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I had a local pawn shop owner who has a FFL tell me today that is was illegal for a private owner to ship a firearm to a FFL holder.I tried to explain to him that he was wrong,but he just kept telling me that I didn't know the law.

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See your pirating of my Ruger No. 1 thread got it locked down eh?

Not to worry I have two more BOUGHT HERE incoming and they will get posted with lots of pictures.



Hey NSAQAM, Larry is very "IN", LOL
You also dishonor the 28th division by using the unit patch as an insult.
As for the liar, welcher Bricktop, his day is fast approaching.
Coward trolls won't accept PMs.
How's the phantom "campfire" coming ?
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Larry it ain't flying..........


Liberalism is a mental disorder that leads to social disease.
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I would never believe anything dicktop writes. He has been on my ignore list for some time.


Osama and Obama both have friends who bombed the Pentagon.
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Originally Posted by mountainclmbr
I would never believe anything dicktop writes. He has been on my ignore list for some time.
If you could read, that might carry some weight.


I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum.

Originally Posted by safariman
I do tend to fit in well wherever I go in person.

Originally Posted by Fireball2
The campfire is the most outside exposure I get. No TV, no newspaper.
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Thanks Bricktop; too bad a "sticky" has to continue to get all this crap. Job well done in spite of people judging you rather than the facts.


Talk is cheap - except when Congress does it.

Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to
take an ass whoopin'

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Originally Posted by coltchris
Thanks Bricktop; too bad a "sticky" has to continue to get all this crap. Job well done in spite of people judging you rather than the facts.


Agreed!


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Originally Posted by coltchris
Thanks Bricktop; too bad a "sticky" has to continue to get all this crap. Job well done in spite of people judging you rather than the facts.


Agreed +2


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Originally Posted by nsaqam
Originally Posted by coltchris
Thanks Bricktop; too bad a "sticky" has to continue to get all this crap. Job well done in spite of people judging you rather than the facts.


Agreed +2


Thanks for posting this BT. Though some have an incomprehensible hard time figuring this out it seems.


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