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WOW that went clearly over your head. It has everything to do with marketing.

Highend Competition target .22lr market narrow (small)=high price less sales.

Hunting/plinking .22lr market pretty broad (large)= rifles ranging in price from mild to wild rifles sold "A LOT".

Now take into account the cost of breaking into an established niche market. Not really worth it. You don't truly believe that only two companies can build rifles to that level do you? Because if you do no matter what I or anyone else post its all a lost cause.


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Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter


Highend Competition target .22lr market narrow (small)=high price less sales.

Hunting/plinking .22lr market pretty broad (large)= rifles ranging in price from mild to wild rifles sold "A LOT".

Agreed. I must suppose that your point did go over my head and still does. What I was thinking about was that there is no need for a company like Cooper to market themselves to smallbore shooters. If a rifle is competitive, it sells itself. The breaking into a niche market part does escape me....does that mean that the only way an elite competitor would know about Cooper rifles is if there were some type of marketing effort aimed at them?
In any case....the Cooper's that I have seen must be on the "wild" side of the hunting/plinking market..... some of the ones that I have seen are only a few hundred dollars less than the Anschutz. I sorta doubt that Cooper sells "a lot" of rifles at $2000+ per item.
No disrespect intended to you or to Cooper.
Pete

Last edited by PeteD; 03/02/12.

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Yes if a rifle is competitive it will market itself. But it cost money to develope and build said rifles. Also the biggest hurdle as I see it is those that compete already own Anschutz so getting them to "CHANGE" is hard. Most likely the hardest part of the equation.

So that is were marketing would need to come in before breaking into the niche market. I would think they would need to make some pretty sweet offers of sponsorship to get that. That is costly and for what (small numbers/profits)?

I think you would be surprised at the rifles Cooper sells. But this isn't really about Cooper or any other single company. Its about why other companies most likely don't get into the Highend Competitive 22lr market.

I do believe that the op said he wasn't looking for a Cooper or a Highend Target rifle. I would say that the CZ would most likely be what he is looking for.


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Certainly CZ has a well deserved reputation. If I were in the market for a sporter type. 22, that would be my first stop.

My earlier comments were in response to the OP's question about the most accurate OTB bolt action .22. I am sure that he meant rifles that are available now OTB.
I am also sure that any number of the manufacturers mentioned in this thread could produce a rifle that is competitive with the high end target rifles. For reasons that you mentioned, though, they do not. Not yet in any case. Maybe never. Maybe sometime.
Pete

PS: I am sure that I would be very pleased with any of the rifles that Cooper sells.

Last edited by PeteD; 03/03/12.

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No you would hate the cooper and sell it to me at a big loss! smile


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Originally Posted by gunchamp
What is the most accurate bolt action 22 lr you can buy out of the box? Not looking to spend cooper money. I've been told the ruger 77/22 or the cz 452. You guys feel that its between those two? Thanks.


CZ 452's are nice, but the real sleeper I found was a Remington 504, I bought several of them a few years ago when they first came out. The thing that will strike you about them is the sheer feeling of quality, the trigger breaks like glass, the bolt face fits into the breech with zero space like a bank vault.

I was getting these at about $400 to $450 and putting Pentax 4.5-14x scopes with range finder reticles (same scope as the Fullfield II. They were absolute tack drivers.

IMO Remington has outdone the 541-S which I also have had three of.

Last edited by 243WSSM; 03/05/12.

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I liked/wanted a 504, but they only lasted 3-4 years (2004-7). That didn't make sense, seemed like a nice rifle for the coin, guess they couldn't compare to the 77/22??


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The most accurate rimfire I ever shot outside of my National Guard smallbore Winchester 52 is my Winchester 320. It was made 1972-74. I literally stole the rifle when I traded a Remington 510 that I had $18 in and $10 boot for the 320. It will cloverleaf bulk Federal ammo at squirrel hunting distances. Of course it should be accurate, it was the forerunner to the Kimber. I still squirrel hunt with it (mostly grays) and make head shots so easy if I do my part.

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[Linked Image]



One of the coolest rimfires I've played with lately is actually chambered in 22 WMR, a round I had pretty much written off. No more. Guns and ammo have improved considerably. This one is a Savage 93 BRJ. Some specs: 21-in. blued matte spiral-fluted heavy barrel, 1:16 twist, laminate stock, 5-round detachable magazines, trigger pull out of the box is 2 lb, 6 oz. It shoots 3/4 in. groups at 100 yards (if the wind isn't howling) with Rem 33 gr. AccuTip-V.


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make it a hole to remember.
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& by the size of that objective can find space rocks before they collide with the Earth!! smile

Cool looking rifle from this angle.


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I've got a very accurate Remington 504. My most accurate .22? No, but it doesn't miss the title by much......


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Originally Posted by avagadro
& by the size of that objective can find space rocks before they collide with the Earth!! smile

Cool looking rifle from this angle.


*laffin*

It's set up specifically for some raccoon calling/sniping I've been working on lately, some of which is in the dim/dark hours.


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Originally Posted by shreck
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Mebbe a Remington 513T would do the trick. Only have a sample of one, but it's a bughole shooter. 513S would do the same if not abused in the field in the decades of its existence.


My 513t was good enough to win a state championship.


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