Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles What does 223AI mean?

Perhaps I stated it ambiguously. I Intended to say that when developing similar pressures (which the strain gauge can verify) that some AI cartridges develop more than 10-15 fps advantage over the parent round from the same barrel.

If you use JB's 4:1 rule, if the ackley gains 4% in capacity velocity should rise by 1%, which at a nominal 3000 fps for the .223 makes for a 30 fps bump.

I've generally looked at ackleys as good for a 50 fps bump, anything beyond that is achieved by running higher pressures. With modern brass you can run 70,000 psi and not see pressure signs. So if the .223 is a 62 kpsi round, and published data is at 62 kpsi, the speed increase from the ackley is mostly achieved from running higher pressure, not from the increase in capacity.

But, one thing to consider is an action that can handle a belted mag case running 65 kpsi is going to be under much less strain running the petite .223 case at 70 kpsi.

There is no doubt that some AI cartridges do develope more than 15 fps at the same pressures. Cartridges like the 25/35 AI, the 30/30 AI, the 30/40 AI and both H&H cases are some examples of cartridges which make significant gains. They gain a lot because the case capacity is increased considerably. This is not the case with such cartridges as the 223AI where the capacity gain is quite insignificant.
Regarding case capacity increases; all too often, people compare a fireformed AI cartridge to a piece of brand new brass in the standard chambering to determine the case capacity increase. Such a comparison is, of course, invalid.
During some recent testing of a 303 British (preparatory to doing a 303 Epps comparison) I found that a case fired in the P14 I bought for the test gained 1.5 grains of 4350 in capacity. When I rechamber this rifle, it is this capacity which will have to be considered to determine the true gain.
I have been advised by one of the guys for whom I chambered a 223 AI that I should stop teasing 223AI shooters. He is perfectly happy in the certain knowledge that his AI will nip at the heels of a 22/250 while requiring very little pressure to do so. He pointed out that a poll of the 24 Hr Campfire would probably show a preference for my silence on this subject! Hard to argue with that. GD

i keep hearing over and over that the .223 is almost as good as the .223 AI

.... and you shot it? Tremble...... I fear for your safety....

999,

It's a process of increasing the shoulder angle on a round, taking out most of the case taper and fire forming the parent round in the new AI reamed chamber.

This was done to get a boost in performance over the parent case, i.e. the 223AI over the .223. Also, the Ackley case shape minimized case stretch and reduced trimming.

This rather ancient method of enhancing the .223 was before the development of the .22-204, where one could simply open the neck of a .204 case to .224 with one simple step, load and shoot with about the same performance.

To answer your above captioned question, it means there are those who, to this day, cling to the labor intensive process of "fire forming" brass to make their AI cases.

And, it also took quite a while for smokeless powder to catch on, many old timers convinced it was just a passing fad...

DF

yea, shooting schitt is SOOOOOO labor intensive.

i have a special rifle made for this heinous task and i have formed thousands of rounds bonking clay peigons @ 500 meters. on calm days i go through and break 50 or so clays, then go back and break the bigger broken pieces. almost unbearable.

Say, Toad,

I figured you'd appreciate those comments...

DF

So, nobody has yet given their actual measured increase in fps. Lotsa talk about pressure, bbl length, strain guage, non-stretch brass, etc. I'm just curious how much faster, measured, the AI really is.

My 223 AI has a 22" barrel: 40 gr Ballistic Tips at 3900 fps, and 75 gr A-Max go a tad over 3000.

I don't waste any time or barrel life fireforming. Accuracy is very fine, and i hunt or shoot psper with everything that goes down the tube.

Ted

I LOVE these Theorums,Ratios and "Rules"...yet curiously enough,them who espouse never shoot the chamberings cited.

More than a whole [bleep] bunch hilarious to me,that many are seemingly of the mindset,that "pressure" only applies to a case design which they happen malign,due solely to sheer [bleep] ignorance. Pressure is pressure and the larger vessel at like pressure,will simply make greater speeds.

Now personally,I don't gun my herd of 223's with plug wires yanked from beneath their hoods,so as to bolster some contrived notion that my herd of 223AI's will "magically" flourish in the pressure disparities. I lean on the SAAMI chambering with enthusiasm commensurate with the Improved version and for those reasons,their performance values(virtues) are distinctly different.

I'm in the unique position,that every clueless dumbphuck is in a hurry to "tell" me all about these things and please do not think,that I do not relish the inherent [bleep] humor. Reality is,I'm afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess and have more than capably covered all variables in the equation,running the gamut in barrel lengths and twist rates. Such realities do sorta quell the thunder of the Do-Nothing Dumbphucks and their collective Guessworks.

The SAAMI 223 can't/won't/don't run with the 223AI,though noone wishes that it would eclipse same,more than I. Though that ain't how the cookie crumbles.

As it stands this morning,I've (13) 223AI's from 7-14" twist and 20-26" spouts and there isn't a single one that won't make 3900fps+ with 40's,3700fps+ with 50's and 3100fps with 75's.

Mebbe Jeff-O will salve the Naysayers with a Chart and then all parties can feel compelled to flaunt their "experience".

Laffin'!

It happens every time I read a post from you, Interthem, and Brickey boy.

Swifty

Don't read them then.

Simple really.

Boxer pointed me in the right direction on my 223 AI build last year. 21" pac-nor 3 groove 8 twist in a rem mtn contour stuffed in a Ti stock. I took me a little while to find a load but it is shooting good now and clocking an honest 3100 fps with 75g Amaxes.

The only light bullets I've played with other than fire forming are the 53g vmaxes and they are clocking over 3500 fps and shooting 1/2 moa or better. I'm not even running moly.

Bb

I'll be the wet blanket...Ackley never messed with the 223, so technically there is no such think as a 223AI. It is a simply a 223 Improved.

All I know is that they don't suck.

PacNor, 22" tube, 8-twist, 3-groove






Flubbed one in the target on the left, so I went ahead and shot another for a total of 4.




Kept it at 4 shots in the name of fairness.

Swifty,

You are easily amongst the dumbest of the dumbest dumbphucks and the only thing you shoot is your mouth and Imagination,though in no particular order.

Take notes and apply same...or simply stand there lock-legged with that furroqwed brow.

I enjoy that Stupidity isn't an Act for you. Bless your heart!





'burley,

Imagination and Pretend will only get the Do-Nothing Dumbphucks so far and it's a not so curious constant,that Reality reliably provides consistent results. It's always a breeze to ascertain who shoots and who Imagines,with the humor quotient typically flying offa the [bleep] charts via the Do-Nothing Gang.

Pun be intended.

Hell...there ain't too many .224's I don't shoot and I never was into [bleep] around. A 1-8" 223AI is about as good as things get for Utility.

If/when something better comes along,I'll simply warmly embrace the upgrade,though I am of course a little more than a whole bunch dubious.

Weighing logistics,precision,performance and the Fun Factor,nothin' else comes even close. If only because I'm afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess.

Not that I don't groove on the Do-Nothing Gang's guesswork,as a rule.(grin)








'223,

Poor P.O. never had an inkling to Today's propellants,projectiles,barrels,glass or means of range determination.

I routinely get a kick outta them who love to espouse that he [bleep] the 25-06AI too. That might could be one of my favorite Paper Hat Brigade Mantras.

'Course he never whistled a kissin' 100XLC at 3550fps+ ala '22,in a handy/dandy rifle so chambered...if only because they didn't exist at the time. Reality such as that,will wrinkle alotta Paper Hats.

In fairness the "223 Maximum Overdrive",do have a nice ring to it...but I never did give a schit in regards to what a barrel shank denoted,if only because semantics ain't my gig.

Results ain't never not interesting to me and few could give a [bleep] less about Fluff,than I.






Nail,

I hear good things.

Boxer,
There may well exist within you a small reservoir of knowledge, but your offensive language and bombastic approach to communication does a great job of concealing it; if it does, indeed, exist. GD

Boxer, I am a fan of the 223AI, just pointing out a little fact. My 'smith even engraved my barrel "223 Rem Imp." Actually, as much as I like my 204, I think a 223AI is probably a better option. Duplicate speeds with the light bullets, and the ability to go heavier.