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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
You have to understand that you are comparing 48gr of powder to 61gr.
I have several 25-06ai's in my safe. Both are customs, well set up, and extremely accurate. But, you can't deny a SA 243ai flinging a 105gr .5 BC bullet downrange at 3140, with virtually no recoil and 48gr of powder. It's perfection for deer hunting, IMO. Perfection for deer round for me is 180gr, 90+ grains of powder, and 3300fps+. Course Im not right either,lol.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,062
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,062 |
You have to understand that you are comparing 48gr of powder to 61gr. It only takes 51 grains of RL-17 to achieve 3300 fps in my 25-06. This is what get's me about you 243 fanboys. It's always Amax this, AI that, etc.. Always using the most extreme examples to try and prove your point. The vast majority of avg hunters don't even know what an 243 Ackley Imporved is. If they do, they probably don't have the money to build one, nor the time to jack around fire forming brass. Heck, most don't even reload. For what it is, yes, the 243 is a very efficient and useful cartridge. Will it meet or exceed the 25-06 in some applications? Yes! On avg though, a 25-06 shoots faster, flater and hits harder at ranges most hunters will be shooting.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,280
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,280 |
^ +1
Impressive paper ballistics never killed anything.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,921
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,921 |
And that's what's good about it. Different people have different preferences based on bullet performance or cartridge performance or nostalgia or sentimental reasons, and different standards regarding cartridge efficiency or what is acceptable terminal ballistics or whatever. And the only one you have to please is yourself. I have several .45-70's, and it just trips my trigger to use the same cartridge Custer used at Little Big Horn. Or throw 44 Mag bullets out of a lever action carbine, or use my 444, or one of my 17 Remingtons. Our pasts lead us to decisions and conclusions, decisions and conclusions which may have been perfectly valid in the past, but which may not hold true now, due to various developments and improvements. Custer didn't use the .45-70, he used the .50-70. Even his men didn't really use the .45-70. Since the carbine load for the .45-70 only contained 55 grains of black powder and a cardboard filler the cartridge was then referred to as the .45/55. Sorry for being a wizeazz.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,406
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,406 |
You have to understand that you are comparing 48gr of powder to 61gr. It only takes 51 grains of RL-17 to achieve 3300 fps in my 25-06. This is what get's me about you 243 fanboys. It's always Amax this, AI that, etc.. Always using the most extreme examples to try and prove your point. The vast majority of avg hunters don't even know what an 243 Ackley Imporved is. If they do, they probably don't have the money to build one, nor the time to jack around fire forming brass. Heck, most don't even reload. For what it is, yes, the 243 is a very efficient and useful cartridge. Will it meet or exceed the 25-06 in some applications? Yes! On avg though, a 25-06 shoots faster, flater and hits harder at ranges most hunters will be shooting. Took me a bit more RL17 to get the speeds you are claiming. Until they come out with some good bullets for the quarter bores, they don't offer anything that above what something else can offer, no matter how fast you can make them go. Tis a shame too. In the same "class", I'd rather have: 243 243ai 6-284 6-06 240 Wby 260 260ai 6.5-284
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,406
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,406 |
Personally, I'd prefer a 117 or 120gr bullet, designed for hunting, at about 3000fps using 49gr of IMR4350. Even though the BC is way down there around .4, the trajectory is plenty flat for my hunting. YMMV 7-08..
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,825
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,825 |
Personally, I'd prefer a 117 or 120gr bullet, designed for hunting, at about 3000fps using 49gr of IMR4350. Even though the BC is way down there around .4, the trajectory is plenty flat for my hunting. YMMV 7-08.. Yep, lots of good choices and lots of overlap. But inside of 400 yards, I sure don't see gettin' all worked up over a difference of .05 in the BC.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 |
You'll not catch me disparaging either round, as either is all you need to kill anything in this country, short of long range elk (maybe) and the big bears. Of course, one has to be confident in their sexuality to admit that.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,220
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,220 |
And that's what's good about it. Different people have different preferences based on bullet performance or cartridge performance or nostalgia or sentimental reasons, and different standards regarding cartridge efficiency or what is acceptable terminal ballistics or whatever. And the only one you have to please is yourself. I have several .45-70's, and it just trips my trigger to use the same cartridge Custer used at Little Big Horn. Or throw 44 Mag bullets out of a lever action carbine, or use my 444, or one of my 17 Remingtons. Our pasts lead us to decisions and conclusions, decisions and conclusions which may have been perfectly valid in the past, but which may not hold true now, due to various developments and improvements. Custer didn't use the .45-70, he used the .50-70. Even his men didn't really use the .45-70. Since the carbine load for the .45-70 only contained 55 grains of black powder and a cardboard filler the cartridge was then referred to as the .45/55. Sorry for being a wizeazz. Same cartridge case, one load for cav, one load for infantry. I'm thinkin' you're pickin' pepper, but that's ok. 
Exquisitely turdlike in all of his many manifestations!!
Resist much - obey little. Hayduke lives!
"30-06 guys don't worry about schit 'cause 30-06 guys don't worry....." 16bore
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,875
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,875 |
when I saw the thread that was the first thing that popped up in my head...the best of both worlds!!! 
Retired and Loving It!!
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,921
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,921 |
And that's what's good about it. Different people have different preferences based on bullet performance or cartridge performance or nostalgia or sentimental reasons, and different standards regarding cartridge efficiency or what is acceptable terminal ballistics or whatever. And the only one you have to please is yourself. I have several .45-70's, and it just trips my trigger to use the same cartridge Custer used at Little Big Horn. Or throw 44 Mag bullets out of a lever action carbine, or use my 444, or one of my 17 Remingtons. Our pasts lead us to decisions and conclusions, decisions and conclusions which may have been perfectly valid in the past, but which may not hold true now, due to various developments and improvements. Custer didn't use the .45-70, he used the .50-70. Even his men didn't really use the .45-70. Since the carbine load for the .45-70 only contained 55 grains of black powder and a cardboard filler the cartridge was then referred to as the .45/55. Sorry for being a wizeazz. Same cartridge case, one load for cav, one load for infantry. I'm thinkin' you're pickin' pepper, but that's ok. I agree. But Custer really was a .50/70 guy. Amazing thing is the Indians walked off the battlefield with his Remington Rolling Block in tow, and it's never resurfaced since. I'd love to know where it is.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,220
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,220 |
Prolly rusted up and junked somewhere under 2' of earth. Our Native American brothers weren't always icons of firearms maintenance. But then, Custer wasn't either, if he let his rifle, and his life, get taken from him.
Last edited by DELGUE; 04/18/12.
Exquisitely turdlike in all of his many manifestations!!
Resist much - obey little. Hayduke lives!
"30-06 guys don't worry about schit 'cause 30-06 guys don't worry....." 16bore
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,478
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,478 |
I'm a short action slut, and between my 243AI's, 250AI, 7-08AI, 338Fed and 6mmBR's, I don't have any itch for a 25-06......
To anger a conservative, lie to him. To annoy a liberal, tell him the truth.
Promoted to Turdlike status 03/17/12
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 98
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 98 |
It has been very interesting reading all of your posts guys... some made me chuckle. I bought that M788 6mm. Owned it for 6 days and was offered a bunch more money than I paid for it so I sold it and bought a new T/C Venture 243. 22" barrel and lighter so it will be perfect for a kick around 'yote gun or something for the gal to shoot deer with. The gun is gonna be used for coyotes in central Mn. and deer in northern Mn woods where my farthest shot will be 200 yards. My 'yote loads will be with lighter bullets. Deer bullets can be the heavier ones but don't have to have "shoot 'em in the left eye" accuracy cuz a long shot for me will be 200 yards. When I go out west to shoot antelope I will be carrying the 243 and my 270 also. The older I get (49) the more traditional I become. I did hang onto my 300WSM but I don't have my 6.5-284, 270WSM, or 338RUM anymore. After reading alot of your posts I will be keeping my eye put for a 257 Rob. I am getting old school it seems. I have added 243... 270.. and 280 to my arsenal in the past couple of years. Not sure what I will need for those guinea pigs though? :-)
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