I would like to hear from Sako 85 owners that have had ejection problems (case hitting bottom of scope) with their rifles. Especially those that have been sent back to Beretta or one of their outsourced authorized repair dealers. If you had one repaired I would like to know just how they repaired what I consider to be a major design flaw(ejector at 6 o'clock position). As you guys can probably tell, I have just about had it with Beretta, Sako, and this expensive non-functioning rifle.
I've owned 3 85's. First 270wsm did it sometimes, 270win every time, and 7mmRM has never come close to hitting the scope. I've never sent one back. I just sell them if they don't run and start over.
Had same problem with grey wolf .30-06, using low mounts and leupold vx 3.5-10. Sent it in, got it back with same problem a month and a half later. The gunshop made them send me a new gun, but it did the same thing! Sako wanted me to put my 40 mm scope in high rings. I got my full refund back from them finally.
Gramps. you were the one to help me figure out my 85 in 25-06 that was hitting my VX-3. That being said I traded that one off due to that. With that low bolt throw why not have a low scope. I have an 85 in .308 that has been flawless. I really think that it is the long action that has the problems.
I have an 85 in .308 that has been flawless. I really think that it is the long action that has the problems.
I just got a 9.3x62 in a Black Bear so when I get round to shooting it hopefully in the next week or so, I will be very interested to see if this problem occurs. I will be using 1" extra low Optiloks.....
My Sako M995 TRG/S Magnum 30-378 had the same issue. I just used the high rings. Got no cheek weld either.
My BILs Remmy 788 did that when he put a new scope on it. I "fixed" it for him by rotating the scope in the rings 90 degrees CCW. The elevation turret went to the left side and became the windage turret, and the windage turret went on top and became the elevation turret. That way there was no turret sticking out over the ejection port for brass to hit on and bounce back into the loading port instead of on the ground. It worked and he was pleased. Guess it solved the problem to his satisfaction.
Our God reigns. Harrumph!!! I often use quick reply. My posts are not directed toward any specific person unless I mention them by name.
I had a sako 75 in 270win that used to do the same thing. I remember reading a test report done on sako75 270, where the reviewer stated that he had ejection issues...unless he pulled the bolt back relativley sharply.
This certainly was the case with mine as it was never a problem in the feild when you needed a quick follow up shot and cycled the bolt sharply.
My current 85 in 7mm08 preforms perfectly with no ejection issues and this is with low S&K mounts.
To the original poster,,what cal/action length,, would be most interested to see if the cases eject properly if you pull the bolt back sharply???
I had this problem with a Sako 75 in 300 wsm. I was able to find a scope and ring combination that worked. I agree, it is a design flaw. I think that is why the optilock mounts are so high.
Cervus, we tried pulling the bolt back very sharply also. Second rifle beretta sent me did the same thing. Thought about twisting the scope as Big RedHead noted, but just could'nt live with it. The marks on scope where on the squareish part, not just the cap of the scope. Some marks were almost dead center of the scope. I'm just glad they gave me my full refund. This was about a two month ordeal. Shot the first rifle one time, when I found out it's ejection problem. Thats enough to make a person sick.
I haven't noticed any problem with my short action 85's even with low scope mounts. I have a long action 85 and haven't noticed the problem but I'm specifically going to test for it next time I go to the range.
Thanks to all for your reply's. I currently have a New(or at least it was) Leupold VXIII 3.5x10x40 sitting in Optilock bases and low rings on the rifle. The scope objective clears the barrel by a little less than 1/2". It's a .270 Win, and that seems to be the worst offending caliber. Sent an e-mail to Beretta tech people yesterday, and plan on calling today. If I send it back I think I will get the same response that SPIWONKA got (a gun that still won't work). Mr. Bennett I do remember discussing this with you and your rifle. I had this same problem on a 75 .308 Win, but I finally found that by changing scopes to a Nikon Monarch 3x9 and pulling the scope as far to the rear as posible and using Leupold Medium QD rings and bases it now works. What really drives me up the wall is that someone in Sako/Beretta QC (if there is such a thing) did not see this before thousands were put on the market. A man with one eye and half sense could see if you put an ejector in the 6:00 position it is going to flip up then may be out. Had the design of these rifles been left to the old Finn rifle makers instead of Beretta marketing azzholes this rifle would have functioned like a Swiss clock. In trying to slick the consumer with a three lug slick bolt throw and cutting away the bottom part of the bolt face for controlled feed (which it isn't) they created this problem. I have never had a single problem with older Sako's. As I have aged, I wanted a lighter rifle, my mistake. I guess the old saying is true, "stick with the one what brung you". Thanks for listening to me vent guys, gonna have some breakfast, then take on Beretta.
I think the reason it's an issue is in Europe they use 56mm obj moonscopes that have to be mounted high. That's why Sako's low Optilocks will handle a 50mm obj. I've noticed their one pc ringmounts are really bad for scope clearance. I use the 2 pc with lows and no problems on the current guns. Even long action 7mmRM. Cheek weld is fine on that gun even with the low comb classic stock.
I have a M85 Black Bear chambered 9.3x62 with a 30mm tube S&B Zenith mounted in the newer Optilock Ringmounts. The scope tube center is mounted 1.64" over the bore centerline above the chamber. I shot this rifle with the scope mounted and with it removed to address the iron sights. So far, it has proven to be the most reliable "out the box" production rifle I've handled when it comes to feeding. The Zenith is markedly bulkier over the ejection port compared to a standard 1" Leupold hunting scope with normal turrets. My rifle cycles exceedingly well with no issues caused by the Zenith.
As to scope height, I mount a rifle same as I mount an upland shotgun, without any stock crawl. I find my combination to be a perfect height for my mount, I'd not want it any higher or lower. The dimensions of the Sako stock place my line of sight down the center of the scope tube using the ringmounts. If I were a certified member of the stock crawlers guild, I'd have trouble with the Sako ergonomics.
Best
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
Gramps2,, keep us posted on how you get on with Beretta. Im rather interested in this as Im (maybe)looking at getting an 85 in 270 or maybe wsm/ finnlight shortly.
Ive also owned a 75 model 270wsm and 2 other 85 model 7mm08,s (besides my current 7mm08)which performed perfectly. However, I had an older sako hunter 308 which was the model before the 75. It had the 2 bolt lugs.. this rifle had ejection issues where the fired case would hit the scope and fall back into the action.It was sent back to the sako agent and fixed.
All the above rifles had 36mm objective lenses mounted in old style medium height mounts which are significantley lower than the so called "low" optilok mounts supplied with new 85,s.
I just inspected mine by cycling fired cases. Cycling fast or slow, the extractor claw holds the case against the bolt face until it strikes the ejector. The ejector only makes the case tilt up high enough to clear the outer lip of the ejection port, and then at that point, the claw extractor pulls and flips the case in its direction which is the correct angle to clear the outer lip of the ejection port and go under the scope body. The force of ejection is completely controlled by the force used to operate the bolt, but the angles stay the same. If I reduce the force to bare minimum, the angles stay the same, but gravity pulls the case back into the port.
Same occurs using live rounds, but the added weight of the bullet requires additional force on the bolt to overcome.
I'd be curious if something was amiss with your claw extractor. Maybe it has a weak hold on the case against the bolt face and is overpowered by the ejector. Possibly this limits its ability to pull and eject the spent case towards its position. If this were the case, I could see how the ejector could dominate the process and push the case through the extractor straight up into the scope body. Maybe a combination of things, including the case dimensions itself, could weaken the extractor hold on the case causing such issue.
I've cycled Lapua, Norma and Hornady through mine so far. I'm unsure why a 270 case would have issue over a 9.3x62 case. There must be more to it than just the chambering. Just some thoughts anyway.
Best
Last edited by GaryVA; 04/25/12.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
The length of the standing ejector possibly needs to be just right or the timing could be off. I'm not an engineer but don't understand why some do it everytime and others never will.
Heard back from Beretta today. Their fix was to slide scope fore and aft until "right position" for ejection is found. What I found is this fix only makes it hit my scope with the very edge of the case mouth, or it hits my scope with the shoulder of the case. Let Beretta know this afternoon that this did not solve problem, and that I wanted gun fixed right, another gun, or my money refunded. I know what you guys are thinking, yea, good luck with that. If you will look at the photo of a model 85 bolt face that MCT3 provided, you can see what I think is part of the problem with 85's. The bottom of the bolt face is completely open. This was necessary for the so-called controlled feed of the 85. As GaryVA pointed out, only the extractor is holding the case being pulled rearward. If extractor/spring are not strong enough the case may slide down face of bolt causing front of case to stick upward. Now for those of you who have 75's. Your bolt face is enclosed by a ring of steel except for the ejector cut. This means that the case being ejected can not slide down as it is held in place by the extractor and that bottom ring of steel. IMHO the bolt of the 75 is much better than the 85. If you have a 75 and an 85 just compair them and see which one you think is the strongest. You don't have the controlled feed feature, but that is BS anyway since without the claw extractor which grips the base of the cartridge from the time it is stripped from the magazine, that claw never lets go of the cartridge until it hits the fixed ejector. Sako 85's claim this, but fall far short of the original Mauser or model 70 Win design. It's really a push feed until round is almost in chamber. I have also just noticed that the fixed ejector rubs the inside of the cut on my 85 bolt. I may have just discovered what's wrong with my rifle. In rubbing the inside of the cut, the case is flipped up and somewhat left(inward) instead of up and outward. Just compaired bolts again, the 75 is a hands down better design. I sure wish that Sako had never gone with the half ass control feed BS on their 85's. I'll keep you guys posted.
Please keep us posted.I love Sako rifles but really hate Beretta.I will never again buy a new Sako as long as Beretta owns them.I had a terrible experience with Beretta customer service with my first Sako 75.
The only thing I have been able to turn up researching is that some have had some luck replacing the extractor/spring.I'm no smith but it would seem that since some have problems and some do not,a slightly out of spec extractor/spring could be the problem.Also take the bolt apart and give it a good cleaning.I do agree with you about the design.
I might even try to find a competent smith to do it if Beretta doesn't satisfy you with a replacement or refund.Try to find someone who works on Sako and is aware of the issue.Beretta is likely to even tell you they replaced it and not do a thing.They lied to me and my GS owner to keep from replacing a rifle they damaged.Lucky for me the GS owner stepped up and refunded my money.
After my experience with Beretta,I didn't even shoot my other 75 for over a year and it took anothet couple years before I didn't get mad just thinking about it.I do now however really enjoy my 75 and have since added an L579 to the collection.I will own more Sako rifles in the future but they will be pre Beretta.
Heard back from Beretta today. Their fix was to slide scope fore and aft until "right position" for ejection is found. What I found is this fix only makes it hit my scope with the very edge of the case mouth, or it hits my scope with the shoulder of the case. Let Beretta know this afternoon that this did not solve problem, and that I wanted gun fixed right, another gun, or my money refunded. I know what you guys are thinking, yea, good luck with that. If you will look at the photo of a model 85 bolt face that MCT3 provided, you can see what I think is part of the problem with 85's. The bottom of the bolt face is completely open. This was necessary for the so-called controlled feed of the 85. As GaryVA pointed out, only the extractor is holding the case being pulled rearward. If extractor/spring are not strong enough the case may slide down face of bolt causing front of case to stick upward. Now for those of you who have 75's. Your bolt face is enclosed by a ring of steel except for the ejector cut. This means that the case being ejected can not slide down as it is held in place by the extractor and that bottom ring of steel. IMHO the bolt of the 75 is much better than the 85. If you have a 75 and an 85 just compair them and see which one you think is the strongest. You don't have the controlled feed feature, but that is BS anyway since without the claw extractor which grips the base of the cartridge from the time it is stripped from the magazine, that claw never lets go of the cartridge until it hits the fixed ejector. Sako 85's claim this, but fall far short of the original Mauser or model 70 Win design. It's really a push feed until round is almost in chamber. I have also just noticed that the fixed ejector rubs the inside of the cut on my 85 bolt. I may have just discovered what's wrong with my rifle. In rubbing the inside of the cut, the case is flipped up and somewhat left(inward) instead of up and outward. Just compaired bolts again, the 75 is a hands down better design. I sure wish that Sako had never gone with the half ass control feed BS on their 85's. I'll keep you guys posted.
Good Evening,
G2
As Gary says, some, if not most of the 85 do actually get a very good grip of the catrtridge rim and are effectively as CRF as any other rifle, and more CRF than many rifles with a full length extractor. Just having a full length extractor isn't enough to ensure you have CRF. This grip then also tends to result in horizontal displacement on ejection. I do think though it is easier to ensure tension on the rim with the full length extractor, but i don't know that there is anything inherently wrong with the Sako design, and certainly the Sako extractor has a well deserved reputation for strength. They just need make absolutely certain they get that extractor right during manufacturing, and some are not going to work right and some will need to be fixed. Obviously longer cartridges are going to be more of a problem, not least because they will require a tighter grip by the extractor. Certainly the vast majority of Sako 85 work as intended, which is better than some other "CRF" mauser-type designs i have seen.
Perhaps as Mr Clark suggests, the real problem with the Sako rifle is Beretta. Beretta is certainly the reason i no longer own a Sako. US, Europe, Australasia - it doesn't matter where you go, Beretta's customer service of Sako products is extremely disappointing!
If your dad doesn't have a beard, you've got two mums
I have owned a dozen or so Sako rifles over the past 20+ years with no ejection issues (knock on wood) but lets not talk about the 5 shot MOA guarantee bullchit ...................Hb
I already have a T3 Lite in 30/06, to me it's the best buy out there. OH [bleep], I probably just PO the Savage shooters out there. Well sorry guys. DHG, we will just have to agree we disagree about what true CRF really is. I do agree that a lot is expected of the extractor on an 85 I am certainly glad that your 85 is working fine. Do you have a 75 as well? If you get the chance to look face on at a 75 bolt and an 85 bolt you can see what I refer to as a lower ring of steel on the 75 that captures the case and aides the extractor in holding the case in battery from the time it leaves the mag, through chambering, firing, extraction, and ejection. I have both guns, I am not trying to put down the 85, but if you will compare the two, I think you too will agree that the 75 is a stronger, less prone to problems design. The ejection problem that some 85 owners and some 75 owners are experiencing could have been avoided if the fixed ejector had been left in the 9:00 position as they were on pre 75 models. If you are looking head on at either bolt with ejector cut at bottom, you will see a locking lug on the right. Just above that lug would have been the perfect place for the ejector cut. It would have weakened nothing, and been perfect for a 9:00 position fixed ejector. This was probably caused by a young design engineer wanting to put a feather in his cap with this "NEW SAKO DESIGN". I would almost be willing to bet that older Finn riflemakers were questioning the "new design".
Sounds like your bad feelings toward Beretta may be skewing your reasoning a bit on the Sako 85 when comparing it to other CRF bolt guns in function.
In terms of CRF, be it a 98, 70, 77 or the 85; all of them mechanically hold the top round into the mag box and all of them require the bolt face to push the round forward into the ramp to clear free from the mag box. The round must travel a distance forward to go up and out of the mag box. Once free of the mag box, it is under the claw extractor, be it a full length extractor or be it a Sako extractor. A magnum action with a magnum chambering will have more forward travel to clear the box than a short action with small chambering. Some combinations have a steeper climb than others, but the concept is the same on all.
I've experienced 85s in 338, 375 and now 9.3x62. All functioned correctly out the box with the last being near perfection. At no time does the round leave the mag box in front of the claw extractor. When chambering, the round is riding in the mag box against the bolt face just below and going behind the claw extractor until it clears the mag box, and then it is against the bolt face captured by the claw extractor. Same as my 98s, same as my 70s, and same as my 77s. The difference with the Sako claw is that it does not require pinching or being mechanically undercut to ride over a round dropped directly into the chamber.
Nothing wrong with a push feed, but that is a different animal as the round is in front of the extractor when it comes out the box, and it is under spring pressure to eject once it clears the port opening. Two different animals.
Some of the biggest offenders I've experienced, when it came to production rifles that reliably fed off the assembly line, were full length extractor Mauser variants which required skilled adjustments and removal of material to obtain proper functioning. Some required a complete change in geometry of the mag box. When it comes to the production 85, my experience has been most positive. As I've already noted, my most recent 85 came out the box as the single most reliable feeding production rifle I've ever experienced. Every 98, 70, and 77 required varying degrees of skilled adjustment to come anywhere near the reliability of this later bone stock Sako.
I am of the personal opinion that your rifle does not reflect the correct functioning of the 85. No different than how any given Mauser in need of feed work doesn't reflect the correct functioning of the 98. As to your bias toward a push feed 75, that is fine and dandy. But this is no different than you having a bias toward your wife and a particular tie while I have a bias toward my wife and a different tie.
I do hope someone is able to sort out the issue with your rifle. However, I'm still of the opinion that if you are not crowding the port and the round is ejecting straight out the top, then the extractor must not have a proper grasp of the fired case as it is being overpowered by the ejector. I could see a number of things that could weaken its hold on the case. Otherwise, the case should pop up high enough to clear the lip of the port and be flipped toward the extractor at its position on the bolt face. Keep us posted.
Good Luck
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
When it comes to the production 85, my experience has been most positive. As I've already noted, my most recent 85 came out the box as the single most reliable feeding production rifle I've ever experienced.
Second that.
One aspect I appreciate with my 85 Finnlight 300 WSM; I can control the ejection force with controlled bolt throw. While at the range I can ease the bolt back and the fired case will rattle back into the chamber for manual plucking. While hunting it could be thrown forcibly for positive ejection.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country." Robert E. Lee
Sounds like your bad feelings toward Beretta may be skewing your reasoning a bit on the Sako 85 when comparing it to other CRF bolt guns in function.
In terms of CRF, be it a 98, 70, 77 or the 85; all of them mechanically hold the top round into the mag box and all of them require the bolt face to push the round forward into the ramp to clear free from the mag box. The round must travel a distance forward to go up and out of the mag box. Once free of the mag box, it is under the claw extractor, be it a full length extractor or be it a Sako extractor. A magnum action with a magnum chambering will have more forward travel to clear the box than a short action with small chambering. Some combinations have a steeper climb than others, but the concept is the same on all.
I've experienced 85s in 338, 375 and now 9.3x62. All functioned correctly out the box with the last being near perfection. At no time does the round leave the mag box in front of the claw extractor. When chambering, the round is riding in the mag box against the bolt face just below and going behind the claw extractor until it clears the mag box, and then it is against the bolt face captured by the claw extractor. Same as my 98s, same as my 70s, and same as my 77s. The difference with the Sako claw is that it does not require pinching or being mechanically undercut to ride over a round dropped directly into the chamber.
Nothing wrong with a push feed, but that is a different animal as the round is in front of the extractor when it comes out the box, and it is under spring pressure to eject once it clears the port opening. Two different animals.
Some of the biggest offenders I've experienced, when it came to production rifles that reliably fed off the assembly line, were full length extractor Mauser variants which required skilled adjustments and removal of material to obtain proper functioning. Some required a complete change in geometry of the mag box. When it comes to the production 85, my experience has been most positive. As I've already noted, my most recent 85 came out the box as the single most reliable feeding production rifle I've ever experienced. Every 98, 70, and 77 required varying degrees of skilled adjustment to come anywhere near the reliability of this later bone stock Sako.
I am of the personal opinion that your rifle does not reflect the correct functioning of the 85. No different than how any given Mauser in need of feed work doesn't reflect the correct functioning of the 98. As to your bias toward a push feed 75, that is fine and dandy. But this is no different than you having a bias toward your wife and a particular tie while I have a bias toward my wife and a different tie.
I do hope someone is able to sort out the issue with your rifle. However, I'm still of the opinion that if you are not crowding the port and the round is ejecting straight out the top, then the extractor must not have a proper grasp of the fired case as it is being overpowered by the ejector. I could see a number of things that could weaken its hold on the case. Otherwise, the case should pop up high enough to clear the lip of the port and be flipped toward the extractor at its position on the bolt face. Keep us posted.
Good Luck
GaryVA I thought that the 85 was a true CRF until a fellow camper pointed something out to me. I just ask that you please try the following: Put a live or dummy round in your magazine, push round down in mag so that bolt can go forward and lock, put muzzle of rifle on floor so that rifle is in verticle position, with rifle in this verticle position raise bolt and pull all the way to the rear, slowly push bolt forward, at about half way forward your round will fall into chamber without the extractor ever getting a hold on it. If you try this same procedure with a model 70 Winchester that has pre64 type CRF the round will not fall into chamber. This is because the extractor on the model 70 engages the round just as it begins to push it out of the magazine and holds it through the loading, firing, extraction until ejection. The 85 extractor does not engage the round until it is much further forward in the loading cycle. I tried this several times with my 85 and two Win 70 CRF's I have, and it was true every time. Like I stated earlier, I had not noticed this myself, until another camper told me about it. I am NOT SAYING ONE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER, just pointing out the difference.
......put muzzle of rifle on floor so that rifle is in verticle position, with rifle in this verticle position raise bolt and pull all the way to the rear, slowly push bolt forward, at about half way forward your round will fall into chamber......
At what point might you deploy this practice while hunting or vigorously chasing your prey?
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country." Robert E. Lee
......put muzzle of rifle on floor so that rifle is in verticle position, with rifle in this verticle position raise bolt and pull all the way to the rear, slowly push bolt forward, at about half way forward your round will fall into chamber......
At what point might you deploy this practice while hunting or vigorously chasing your prey?
Personally,in 35 years of hunting I have never had a problem with a push feed bolt.I have never had a bolt of any kind jam.I never saw the need for CRF.I thought though, that the whole arguement for CRF was reliability of feeding from any angle,even if knocked down while hunting dangerous game.
To answer your question,possible while getting up, after being knocked down by something I or my guide should have already put down.
Because the Sako extractor is located higher and is smaller, i can imagine that no Sako 85 is likely to catch the rim before the cartridge falls into the chamber in the scenario Gramps describes. I would point out though that the objective of the game is to get to cartridge to go into the chamber! The reason for the full-length extractor on the mauser design was to provide the tension required to hold the cartridge, and that is going to be harder to do with a Sako-type extractor. But the Sako design clearly generally does a pretty good job.
The Sako is not going to catch the rim as fast as the much wider mauser-style extractor - in the Sako the round will have to move higher across the bolt face before meeting the extractor. I have described before as "CRF enough". It is a compromise, due to Sako retaining the three lug design of the 75.
The question is, are there benefits with retaining the three lug design and are they sufficient to justify the compromise. For me, that is a very easy question to answer. Of course it is. The three lug design negates the "mauser wobble" and results in a much smoother action than any mauser, and has much less tendency to bind than any mauser design. It also reduces bolt lift. The compromise is a winner for me.
If your dad doesn't have a beard, you've got two mums
Personally I don't see the big advantage if any to a CRF action, My Remingtons, Brownings and push feed Winchesters run perfectly smooth with zero issues, I think some guy's are just in love with the idea of controlled round feed because the press over the years has made it some kind of holy grail, Oh the great "Pre 64" Model 70, hell in case no one noticed it's 2012 the age of the computer, the tolerances of those old model 70's of almost 50 years ago can't come close to any of our modern rifles built with CNC controlled machines,I don't want a tote 50 year old rifle any more than I want to drive a 50 year old car. I guess it's like furniture some people like to collect antiques, it goes back to the old but true saying " whatever floats your boat" Those old rifles might be most desirable to the next guy but they just don't do it for me...............Hb
Yep, i agree. I do like the idea of CRF if you are using a staggered feed, as i think it reduces feed issues by placing the round in the chamber more precisely than a push feed can. It should be pointed out that this is the real reason why Paul Mauser developed his system of CRF - it wasn't anything to do with preventing double feeding or cartridge control whilst lying upside down or what have you. It was to reliably feed cartridges of variable quality control and dimensions into the chamber reliably from a staggered magazine. The Sako system performs this function quite as well as the mauser system does.
Otherwise any advantages of CRF are really largely imaginary and vanish into insignificance in comparison to the much greater advantages afforded by the reduced bolt lift and smoothness of the Sako system. I have had the opportunity to use some really nice mauser-type actions over the years, and none is nearly as smooth as the Sako action and all have some degree of bolt wobble at full extent. It is inherent in the mauser design.
The advantages of the Sako systyem vastly outway the disadvantages. However, the system does require the cartridge rim to be firmly secured by the extractor on ejection. The short Sako extractor is difficult to tension to achieve this objective and the reason Paul Mauser developed the full length extractor was to provide a method to reliably tension the extractor given the manufacturing limitations of his day. However, i do think it should be possible to achieve sufficient tension with the short Sako extractor, and clearly the majority of Sako 85 actions do achieve this objective. It will be interesting to see how they go with time. But clearly, the 85s in which the extractor doesn't get sufficient purchase to provide reliable ejection are faulty and should have been repaired by Beretta.
It is interesting to note that Sako was not alone in contemplating trying to develop a form of controlled round feed in a three lug action. Thomspon Center considered a similar design for the Icon action, but gave up because they knew folks would have a fit if you tried to call it CRF. In fact, i think they were probably influenced by some of the commentary on the Sako.
If your dad doesn't have a beard, you've got two mums
I did some testing on 5 Sako 85's in 260, 6.5x55, 308, 300 WSM, and 375 H&H. All with scopes mounted on low rings -- either Talley, Sako Optilock, or S&K. The only time had an ejection failure was if the bolt was moved very slowly -- unrealistically slow for any hunting situation unless your are deliberately trying to keep you brass from ejecting . In some configurations, I believe the brass does hit the bottom of the scope. The trajectory is such that it doesn't seem to have an affect on successful ejection, however. I tried the test with the guns in multiple orientations-- barrel pointed up at 60 deg, down at 45 deg, and the gun canted 45 degrees to each side.
The 270 Win 85 I had would eject into the scope no matter how hard you cycled the bolt. Slow would hit and fast would slam it into my scope.....My 270wsm would only hiccup when cycled slowly bench shooting.
Sako and Optilock "low" rings are not really low if compared to most popular scope rings. Between having to have your scope mounted up in the stratosphere, because of ejection problems and Sako Blow-ups. I decided to buy a Winchester Featherweight, instead of the Sako Finnlite that I was contemplating. Now I am damn glad that I made the decision that I did.
I wish I had done likewise. I have not even fired my 85 .270 Finnlight and I am having ejection problems with live factory loads and full length sized, trimmed cases. I have sent several e-mails to Beretta, and the only response so far has been to move scope fore and aft. I am using Sako Optilock bases and low rings as noted in previous posts. I finally pushed the Leupold VX3 3.5x10x40 as far forward as possible and that helped with the ejected round hiting the scope. I know my rifle has extractor and ejector problems, as an extracted round hits the left side of the loading port and leaves a nasty gash on the round where it begins to bottle neck down. The faster I work the bolt the deeper the gash. It also leaves an extracted round lying on the magazine follower (usually the last round, but not always) After over 50 years of using all types of weapons, both in the military and civilian life I have determined that my rifle and possibly all 85 Sako's need the following: A MUCH STRONGER EXTRACTOR SPRING THAT WILL HOLD AN EXTRACTED ROUND STRAIGHT AND TIGHT AGAINST BOLT FACE. SECOND, AN EJECTOR THAT HITS EXTRACTED ROUNDS FURTHER LEFT OF CENTER insuring a positive flip to the right. As other campers have stated, the real problem may be Beretta ownership. They do not seem to be concerned with customer satisfaction and quite possibly with quality control.
The sad reality is that i am one of Sako's greatest advocates here, and i have written quite a lot here in support of the 85 design. Even with respect to the pictures on the other thread of the Sako 85 blow up, i would still argue that that rifle clearly behaved in the way that was intended, and the system of gas handling clearly worked.
But i also will make it clear again, i do not own a Sako rifle and i will not own a Sako rifle at this point of time despite having previously been a very proud Sako owner. The reality is Gramps, you have a faulty rifle which should be repaired or replaced. But it won't be. Not unless you take them to court, which is clearly ridiculous to get a rifle replaced. Which of course Beretta knows and i would go so far as to say is part of their calculations. Sako makes faulty products just like everyone else, and as i have already argued, i think the 85 design is always going to be prone to producing rifles that don't work because of the difficulties in tensioning that short extractor. The real problem is that Beretta isn't ever going to fix or replace your faulty rifle. And this is no different to Beretta's behaviour anywhere else in the world with respect to Sako products. It is clearly just part of the company's culture, even policies. If you wish to buy a Sako product, take this into consideration before you hand over your money. Personally, i'd be looking elsewhere instead.
If you need a nice, classy Scandinavian made rifle might i suggest Schultz and Larsen instead. Maybe even a Lynx.
If your dad doesn't have a beard, you've got two mums
I agree with you that Sako makes faulty products just like everyone else but many guy's think just because they've had several and their particular rifles have lived up to expectations that Sako rifles are bullet proof and every one that leaves the factory is the best rifle ever, I can say this all Sako rifles don't live up to the 5 shot MOA guarantee as I have had a few that would not, that being said I am still a big Sako fan and I think it's a shame that a shabby outfit like Beretta owns such a fine rifle maker...............Hb
Gramps I have the same rifle,caliber,scope and mount set up. Mine does not have the problems yours does. I would call Beretta and not stop cussing until someone would fix it or replace it. I have also heard if you send a email to Sako direct that they will make sure it's gets taken care of.
Thanks DINK I am game for any thing at this point. It's so frustrating, as I know Sako has always been known for making very good rifles. I have three older Sako's that are great but heavy. I was just hopeing that the 85 Finnlight would do me the rest of my days.
Did you register your 85 with Beretta and create a customer support account?
I followed the instructions that came with the manual, registered my Sakos, and then created a Beretta Customer Support Account. They've always been extremely responsive in my experience and were always quick to have a technician respond to handle any issue I've had. If your matter cannot be resolved and it appears the extractor and/or ejector is indeed out of wack, let the take it back for repair.
On this forum, I've noticed a few individual Sako owners who have complained incessantly about getting no help from Beretta to address certain issues. But all along, the very same issues they were complaining about were already long ago addressed and documented by Beretta for any registered customer support user to easily find. I came to the opinion that some of those who were complaining never took the few minutes time to take full advantage of Beretta Support, but instead spent hours incessantly complaining on multiple forums.
As for scope mounting height. I have a current size-M model 85 to use for example. Using Optilock ringmounts sized low, the optical center of my scope tube is mounted a measured 1.64" above the bore centerline over the chamber. Using a Sako height comb, my line of sight falls near directly at this height when using a sighting tube in lieu of scope to measure for correct mounting height. Now compare this to my guild smith built model 70 which is fit to me. It has custom QD mounts sized low, the optical center of my scope tube is a measured 1.55" above the bore centerline over the chamber. The stock is fit so my line of sight also falls near directly at this height. The difference in height between the Sako and the Winchester is a measured .09"!! There is not a huge difference. The Sako is not somehow skyscraper high with the Winchester being ultra low.
As I've posted before, it is my opinion based on my experience that the ergonomics of the 85 is not a good fit for anyone who prefers to stock crawl, prefers to use a low comb stock, or prefers to use lower than Sako spec aftermarket mount in combination with any scope having bulky turrets. As for the Sako extractor, the case head will fail and lose a big chunk of brass if the cartridge is stuck solid in the chamber. This is because the Sako extractor has a long history of having a strong and solid bite on a chambered cartridge. The Sako extractor does not have a rep for being puny.
If you have a new rifle and either the extractor and/or ejector is out of spec, I see no reason why your rifle cannot be corrected by Beretta/Sako. If you have a used rifle that is out of warranty, I'd not expect Sako to fix the rifle on their dime, but I see no reason why it cannot be corrected by any competent smith. There are too many Sako 85s around the world that are working like a champ to believe that your rifle is the norm. If it is a lemon, well then it is a lemon and should go back.
I do hope you get the issue resolved. And Please, don't take anything I posted as being an attack.
Best of Luck
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
Reading this thread gave me a knot in the pit of my stomach as I recently bought a used M85 grey wolf in 06. I have coveted this rifle for a long time and am realling looking forweard to getting the rig. So with some trepidation, I just finished cycling live rounds (have no expended brass) and am relieved to report that I had no issues what so ever. The shells ejected text-book - cleanly out the port, not high or low. I have a VXIII 3.5-10x40 with opti-locks that I believe are low (though I didn't mount the glass).
So I know another +M85 data point doesn't help you G2...but I have to agree with a few others above -- there is something acutely wrong with your rifle that can & should be fixed.
As an aside, can someone explain what 'stock crawl' is? I have never heard of this before. thnx
In the context of mounting the rifle by bringing the stock up to your cheek vs mounting the rifle into your shoulder and then bringing your cheek down to the stock by craning your neck forward and tilting your head down. With the former, you bring the scope up to your established natural line of sight. With the later, you lower your head and line of sight to the rifle, and by crawling the stock, you further lower your line of sight in relation to the scope being your head is angled down. Watch someone skilled at mounting an upland shotgun to see how they bring the gun smoothly up to their cheek and line of sight to easily swing on a moving target without any jerky wasted motion. I like the ergonomics of the Sako because it fits me well and mounts like a good upland gun. It's a natural for quick pointing on driven/moving game, which I suspect is a reason behind the ergonomics.
Flip side, if I were a card carrying member of the stock crawlers guild, I'd probably not be satisfied with the rifle ergonomics and would then look elsewhere for a better fit.
Best
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
Shipped my 85 Sako Finnlight to Beretta USA in Md. this morning. Yesterday I was actually able to talk to a former jarhead like myself, which made me feel somewhat more optimistic.
I still shake my head and wonder what the designer of this rifle was thinking when he put the ejector at 6:00, on a rifle that has no sights, AND WAS MADE FOR SCOPE USE ONLY.
I have a suggestion to make before you mount your scope. I have the same scope, base and rings as you. Put some tape or something to cover the bottom of your scope and windage turret. It may keep your scope from getting beaten up during ejection. You may also want to read Mounting Scope in your Sako Manual before mounting.
Gramps 2 I had this issue with a L691 Sako in 375 H&H and several gunsmiths tried to fix it but couldn't. In my case I got a good suggestion from here to turn scope 90 degrees. I know a bit of a pain as horizontal becomes vertical etc. Often the case mouth hits just the turret rather than the tube. Since then, I often wonder why they do not put the turrets at 9 & 12 o'clock instead. Will never happen because of conservatism but it would make sense.
BTW I have a 85 in 9.3 x 66 in low optilock QD's with a VX -1 2-7 and now with a 4 x 32 Conquest. Fortunately no problems.
Gramps Important to remember it's not all rifles. Get yours sorted and enjoy the rifle they way you intended. I was down in the dumps with my 270 but my newest 7mmRM is the smoothest functioning rifle I own.
Gramps, I'll agree with you. Ejector at 6'oclock, = stupid move. Even a plunger ejector at say, 8 o'clock would have been better. It wouldn't have the advantages of a fixed ejector, but at least there wouldn't be all of these ejection problems with these 85's.
Were both the .270 and 7mmRem Mag model 85's? Did your .270 hit your scope with spent cases and live rounds? I used Sako Optilock bases and low rings and placed bases exactly where the manual instructed. Moved scope back and forth never found a spot where it did not hit the scope. The difference between trim length is only .040 with the .270 being the longest, but could have been just enough for the 7mmRem Mag. I am curious. Did you use the same scope on both guns?
sure isnt the only one. I had one, sent back to sako, got it back and it did the same thing. My dealer got me another exact greywolf 06 and it did the same. Luckily i got my money back on it. Their fix was to put my 40 mm scope in high rings!
Gramps Yes all 3 of my Sakos have been 85's. Here's been my experience.
1. 85 Hunter 270wsm 2pc optilock lows-Occasionally hit scope when cycled slowly.
2.85 Classic 270win 1 pc optilock low ringmounts-hit scope every time.
3.85 Classic 7mmRM 2 pc optilock low/1 pc ringmounts(both used)-never a hiccup. A full fingers width clearance between case and scope.
The 7mmRM does use a longer action than the 270. Dunno if that has anything to do with it or not. Seems to me the length of the standing ejector needs to be spot on to create the proper angle of extraction in correlation to the extractor.
I tried My 85 Finnlight .270 Win with loaded ammo and it does hit the bottom of the scope upon ejection about 1/3 of the time, I have a VX3 3.5-10x40 mounted in low Sako ringmounts, I will go to the range soon and see how she ejects spent cases.................Hb
You might want to go back to the beginning of this thread. I am not the only 85 owner, especially the owner of an 85 in .270 Win that has experienced this problem. It does seem to be much more of a problem for long action cartridges. Most who are having no problems are shooting short action or WSM 85's. As I stated in an earlier post I've shipped my rifle back to Beretta, and hopefully they will fix the problem.
I played with a 75 that had the same ejection problems. I have three others with no problems at all.
I believe the problem is in the ejector. Either it sits to high or to far right. The reason I say this is because I swapped bolts with a 75 that did eject fine and the original problem reciever still had the same problem. Looking at the good reciever, the ejector looked different and felt looser. I'm not a gunsmith and don't have the tools to check. It would make sense to me that moving the ejector down and to the left would make the casing eject more lateral versus vertical.
And I read about these problems before. Beretta is horrible about fixing the problem. Unless you bought it new and berated them, they won't do a thing.
I also noticed a weak extractor grip. By strengthening the spring and going to a 1 inch scope it solved my problem.
I think it's a riot that (a)this has gone on for 7 pages; (b)that the rifles were designed/built,and left the factory with this flaw;and (c)that anyone would buy one of the things and go through the gymnastics of trying to make it work.
If I saw it happen once, the rifle would be down the road.
I think it's a riot that (a)this has gone on for 7 pages; (b)that the rifles were designed/built,and left the factory with this flaw;and (c)that anyone would buy one of the things and go through the gymnastics of trying to make it work.
If I saw it happen once, the rifle would be down the road.
That's what I did with mine. Couldn't be happier with my newest one. Feeds and ejects like butter.
Guys, when I get mine back from Beretta if it still does the same thing it will be traveling down the road too. Don't think I will ever buy another Sako unless I come across a real nice older (PRE 75) Sako Classic in .270 Win. I feel like a dumb azz for not buying a new Win Model 70 Featherweight for a little over half the price I paid for my troubled 85 Finnlight.
Gramps, that is exactly what I did. I had a new Finnlite on order. I wondered why so many folks were mounting their damn scopes so freaking high. I did the research and found threads on several forums. reporting the ejection problems. Then I studied the 85 action, checking out that "Einstein inspired" 6'Oclock positioned ejector and that was it. I called my dealer and cancelled the order for the Finnlite. I bought a new FN Winchester M70 Featherweight and could not be happier. It is MOA out of the box, has beautiful wood, no ghey Scandinavian engineering, and that big ole claw extractor and properly engineered fixed ejector slings 'em out smartly to the starboard, without smacking the scope. Gramps, I hope Beretta does the right thing, because that rifle cost you a good bit of money.
You probably made a good decision, both rifle wise, and financial wise. I assume you got it in .308 Win. I have one of the FN Win 70's Extreme Weather in .300WSM, I have not put a round through it yet. Plan to put it in a McMillan Edge Tech Hunter sometime in the future. Don't really care for the B&C stock that is on it. Good luck with your Featherweight, I think you will be pleased. If you find the MOA trigger a little heavy for your liking you can get a lighter trigger spring from erniethegunsmith.com easy install and makes the pull weight just about right.
I just spent a weekend away pig hunting amongst other things and put about 70 rounds in total through my 308 Black Bear in the dustiest Australian Outback conditions imaginable. (When I returned the rifle wasa new red colour! )
It fed & ejected flawlessly and I had no such problems with the brass hitting the scope. And after reading this thread I watched closely for this possible problem.
This problem seems to be more acute in long action cartridges. In my case with .270 Win. If you don't mind, would you please tell me what is the scope set up on your rifle. The bases, ring height and type of scope you are using. I would appreciate the information.
Spot , I will join in with Gramps; I had an 85 in .25-06 with a Vx-3 3.5 X 10 in low Optilocks ( two piece ). My empties would hit the the round part on the bottom of the adjustment area below the caps. The round would actually flip back into the loading port backwards on top of the loaded round. I have a 75 in .270 WSM and have no problems. I also have an 85 in .308 with no problems, hence the long action only idea. I sold the 85 as I lost confidence in a quick second shot. These things shoot great, but what good is a 54 degree bolt lift when you have to mount the scope a foot off of the barrel.
I swiched over to Talleys with high rings and the problem was solved but those great lines were ruined with the scope up in the air that high.
Gramps, I got my Featherweight in 30-06. The quality really amazed me. The absolute only thing I did before shooting it was adjust the trigger. Out of the box it released at approximately 3.75 pounds. Just using the weight of pull adjustment screw, I brought it down to approximately 2.75 pounds. I removed the barreled action to looks things over and every last square millimeter of the inletting had stock finish on it. Most other rifles I have bought during my life, I have at least had to finish sealing the stock under the barrel/action. I hope FN holds up this kind of quality in the long run.
This problem seems to be more acute in long action cartridges. In my case with .270 Win. If you don't mind, would you please tell me what is the scope set up on your rifle. The bases, ring height and type of scope you are using. I would appreciate the information.
Thank you,
G2
Gramps
Using 25mm Low Sako Optilok Ring Mounts (no bases) and the scope is a Conquest 2.5-8x33 (now discontinued).
It will do both, it may eject, but leave a dent on the mouth of the case or on the bullet with a live round, or it will hit and leave a case or live round lying on the magazine follower or on top of other rounds in the magazine. It also leaves a deep ding where the case begins to slope down for the bottleneck. If you work the bolt at just the right speed you can see the round hit the left inside of the loading port, so mine is not just hitting the scope, the extractor is allowing the case to actually flip to the left before it comes back to hit the ejector. My scope set up is: Sako optilock bases, low optilock rings, Leupold VX3 3.5x10x40. There is almost a 1/2" inch between the bottom of the objective and the barrel. What I consider "faulty" is the fact that Beretta/Sako had to know that this would happen especially with long action guns, because of the position of the ejector. Beretta should have stated up front the following: BERETTA RECOMMENDES THAT ALL LONG ACTION MODEL 85 RIFLES BE FITTED WITH OPTILOCK BASES AND HIGH OPTILOCK RINGS TO INSURE PROPER EJECTION. If the consumer had been given that information up front, then I can see where "buyer be aware" would be appropriate. That was not the case however, and Beretta even put low rings in with the bases supplied. I can't tell you why some long action 85 owners have not experienced this problem and others have. The brand of scope must make some difference, and the height of ones rings has to factor in. Please don't think I am out to bash Sako rifles, as I own six. Three pre 75 models, a 75, the troubled 85, and a Sako .22. I consider Sako rifles to be very good overall, but I do think that they "screwed the pooch" with the positioning of the ejector in the 75 and 85.
However, I'm still of the opinion that if you are not crowding the port and the round is ejecting straight out the top, then the extractor must not have a proper grasp of the fired case as it is being overpowered by the ejector. I could see a number of things that could weaken its hold on the case. Otherwise, the case should pop up high enough to clear the lip of the port and be flipped toward the extractor at its position on the bolt face. Keep us posted.
I believe this to be the issue. The extractor doesn't have enough strength to pop the case out of the action before it hits the scope. I had 85's in short and long actions, short was perfect, long not so much. Try having the spring in the extractor changed, as I think a stiffer one will help this problem.
IMO its still a design flaw though, and Sako is not alone. Coopers also had 3 lug bolts with the blade ejector and had similar issues, but they were smart enough to switch current production to a plunger ejector design.
My 7mm-08 Nosler 48 used to hit the scope turret area too. Empty cases hit, then flipped facing backwardsown in the mag/port area......LOL. Extra low Talley UL to blame here. Lows where better!
I don't really see a problem. Either use taller mounts, flip your scope so the turret knob is on the left HS or hold your rifle angled down when ejecting .....LOL
Should you have to make those concessions for using a rifle that costs that much money?
Yes you should. I have had my fare share of rifles over the years...... As most here have. With some of the $$$ units giving issues, & the cheaper ones not so much. But that also works in reverse too
I had dramas with my Sako 75 Stainless Hunter & the key concept lock. What a PITA system! Had problems with Blaser R93 trigger, after hunting in the wet for 1 season......Too many rifles to mention LOL
OK. I'll rephrase that. You should NOT have to make those concessions for using a rifle that costs that much money! If you buy a rifle costing that much and have those issues, shame on the manufacturer. If you buy another one of those rifles costing that much and have those issues, shame on YOU! But if you like your rifles doing this, enjoy.
I think this discussion is quite interesting....I have had 6 Sako�s in my lifetime and still have 4 and I have never had any ejection problems what so ever�.! I talked to a lot of guys at the range and they were all very surprised and nobody had ever heard of this Sako ejection problem and Sako is by far the most popular rifle around here. I thing the reason might be that �we� Europeans in general mount our scopes higher than Americans do and in general mount scopes with bigger lenses to that require higher mounts. Also the vast majority of Sako owners I know use Sako Optilock, Apel or Recknagel mounts that are higher than these American made aftermarket �extra� low mounts.
I don�t see the problem....just put higher rings on your Sako and the problem is solved !
OK. I'll rephrase that. You should NOT have to make those concessions for using a rifle that costs that much money! If you buy a rifle costing that much and have those issues, shame on the manufacturer. If you buy another one of those rifles costing that much and have those issues, shame on YOU! But if you like your rifles doing this, enjoy.
I know what you are saying.
I am onto my third Kimber ATM. First 2 were lemons........ This example(84L) has passed all the tests so far. But will it shoot . hehehe range day in the next few days
If it doesn't I will never buy another!
PS- The same could be said about the NULA safety system. As I find it knotchy, & when comparing it to my Browning, Tikka & Kimber. It is not in the same league...... Meaning. Life is full of compromises.......... Other than that. It is classy!
It will do both, it may eject, but leave a dent on the mouth of the case or on the bullet with a live round, or it will hit and leave a case or live round lying on the magazine follower or on top of other rounds in the magazine. It also leaves a deep ding where the case begins to slope down for the bottleneck. If you work the bolt at just the right speed you can see the round hit the left inside of the loading port, so mine is not just hitting the scope, the extractor is allowing the case to actually flip to the left before it comes back to hit the ejector. My scope set up is: Sako optilock bases, low optilock rings, Leupold VX3 3.5x10x40. There is almost a 1/2" inch between the bottom of the objective and the barrel. What I consider "faulty" is the fact that Beretta/Sako had to know that this would happen especially with long action guns, because of the position of the ejector. Beretta should have stated up front the following: BERETTA RECOMMENDES THAT ALL LONG ACTION MODEL 85 RIFLES BE FITTED WITH OPTILOCK BASES AND HIGH OPTILOCK RINGS TO INSURE PROPER EJECTION. If the consumer had been given that information up front, then I can see where "buyer be aware" would be appropriate. That was not the case however, and Beretta even put low rings in with the bases supplied. I can't tell you why some long action 85 owners have not experienced this problem and others have. The brand of scope must make some difference, and the height of ones rings has to factor in. Please don't think I am out to bash Sako rifles, as I own six. Three pre 75 models, a 75, the troubled 85, and a Sako .22. I consider Sako rifles to be very good overall, but I do think that they "screwed the pooch" with the positioning of the ejector in the 75 and 85.
Have a good day, G2
Mine is a long action, my scope is bulkier, and my Optilock Ringmounts are lower. The extractor on my rifle does not perform as you describe yours and mine feed near flawless. You'd be hard pressed finding any production rifle that feeds as slick and reliable. If your extractor is losing the ejected case prior to hitting the ejector, sounds like you have either faulty out of spec cases, and/or a faulty out of spec extractor. You may have solved your own problem.
Best
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
My 75 270Win does the same thing. I had never experienced it on the range, so it never crossed my mind. The first time I hunted with it I shot a nice buck at 270yds, he fell down, and tried to get back up. I quickly bolted and the damn thing was jammed!!! The empty fell back in the port and when the next round started fwd, I was in a pickle. I pulled the bolt back to the stop, flipped the rifle upside down and beat on the stock til the empty came out. The buck was done, but had he made tracks, I wouldn't have been able to make a follow up. That was the first time it happened and I had not heard about the issue on the web or from any friends, so I just chalked it up to a freak accident. I didn't use the rifle any more that season, switched to another. The following spring I played with the rifle a good bit and it ejected fine at the range and while in my loading room ejecting empties. I still just chalked it up to a freak accident. That fall I carried it to TX and the same thing happened again. I shot a 10pt chasing a doe, he fell down, and tried to get back up, so I bolted and the damn thing jammed again! That was it for me, it's been sitting in the safe ever since. Need to study it a bit closer to define the problem, but have far too many good rifles on hand to worry with it at this time. I would imagine it's probably hitting the scope as yours is. It wears a 4.5-14x40 VX3 in Talley rings. It's a shame a rifle of this class has these issues.
I am sorry to hear that you have the same problem. If you are lucky, you may be able to move your scope fore and aft and may be find a position where it will not hit your scope. I moved my scope and never found a position where it did not hit. I have my fingers crossed hopeing Beretta will find a miracle cure for mine, but I am not holding my breath. To be honest with you I really see no cure except a massive factory recall of long action rifles. The extractor needs a much stronger spring and the fixed ejector needs to be in the 8:00 to 9:00 position, which would require a new bolt with an ejector cut through the left locking lug. Since the 85 has three locking lugs, an ejector cut would not take away from the locking strength of the three lugs. If you look at a pre 75 Sako you will see that they were two lug guns with an ejector cut through the left lug, and fixed ejector at 9:00. As you have probably read, most short action 85 owners don't seem to be experiencing this issue. Puting the ejector at 6:00 on a rifle THAT YOU MUST USE A SCOPE ON then providing you with low Optilock rings to go on your Optilock bases is insuring failure to eject.(I am not going to higher rings) I know that all firearms are subject to some type of failure (usually at the most inopportune time), but I doubt this obvious flaw would have left the factory in Finnland before Beretta ownership of Sako. I will still look for older collectable Sako rifles, but I won't sink any more money in what they offer at this time. Take a good look at yours, and see what I am talking about. If you have an idea of what might solve this issue I would sure be happy to hear it.
Gramps My problem with many of the older guns is they're HEAVY and the stocks feel like they were built for gorilla hands. Don't fit me well at all. If you get a good functioning 85 there's nothing better IMO. Not even customs.
I am sorry to hear that you have the same problem. If you are lucky, you may be able to move your scope fore and aft and may be find a position where it will not hit your scope. I moved my scope and never found a position where it did not hit. I have my fingers crossed hopeing Beretta will find a miracle cure for mine, but I am not holding my breath. To be honest with you I really see no cure except a massive factory recall of long action rifles. The extractor needs a much stronger spring and the fixed ejector needs to be in the 8:00 to 9:00 position, which would require a new bolt with an ejector cut through the left locking lug. Since the 85 has three locking lugs, an ejector cut would not take away from the locking strength of the three lugs. If you look at a pre 75 Sako you will see that they were two lug guns with an ejector cut through the left lug, and fixed ejector at 9:00. As you have probably read, most short action 85 owners don't seem to be experiencing this issue. Puting the ejector at 6:00 on a rifle THAT YOU MUST USE A SCOPE ON then providing you with low Optilock rings to go on your Optilock bases is insuring failure to eject.(I am not going to higher rings) I know that all firearms are subject to some type of failure (usually at the most inopportune time), but I doubt this obvious flaw would have left the factory in Finnland before Beretta ownership of Sako. I will still look for older collectable Sako rifles, but I won't sink any more money in what they offer at this time. Take a good look at yours, and see what I am talking about. If you have an idea of what might solve this issue I would sure be happy to hear it.
Have a good afternoon Reloader, G2
Will do and I agree, this will be my last Sako. Too many other options to deal with this BS.
Removed the hot air from when you were venting. Your timeline as you described your experience with Beretta USA so it is easy for everyone to follow. They sure were quick at honoring your "either or" demand for a refund. Don't think I've ever heard of such a quick positive response from any other gun company. Probably one of the reasons why Sako rifles are so popular and respected the world over with such a huge number of fans
Originally Posted by Gramps2
04/24/12 - I would like to hear from Sako 85 owners that have had ejection problems (case hitting bottom of scope) with their rifles. Especially those that have been sent back to Beretta or one of their outsourced authorized repair dealers.
04/25/12 - Thanks for listening to me vent guys, gonna have some breakfast, then take on Beretta.
04/25/12 - Heard back from Beretta today. Their fix was to slide scope fore and aft until "right position" for ejection is found. What I found is this fix only makes it hit my scope with the very edge of the case mouth, or it hits my scope with the shoulder of the case. Let Beretta know this afternoon that this did not solve problem, and that I wanted gun fixed right, another gun, or my money refunded.
05/03/12 - Shipped my 85 Sako Finnlight to Beretta USA in Md. this morning. Yesterday I was actually able to talk to a former jarhead like myself, which made me feel somewhat more optimistic.
05/16/12 - Got a call from Beretta USA this morning. Very nice young lady informed me that I would be receiving a check for the price I paid for my 85 Finnlight ST .270 Win. Can't ask for more than that.
Everyone have a great day!
G2
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
Followed this thread and hoped my new .300WSM Finnlight would not have this problem. It does? Called Stoeger Tech support here in Canada and the person I spoke to was supposedly unaware of this ejection issue. His suggestion is that I need to cycle the bolt back harder. I tried and this did not help.
I am using Sako extra low mounts and a Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5X10, 40 mm scope. I am going to try Sako Medium mounts and hopefully this solves the problem. I took off the scope and it does ejects reliably - albeit, some ejection is "better" then others even with the same apparent amount of force.
My question - has anyone found other solutions other than new rings - in Canada, these new rings will set me back $114 (exclude pricey shipping - I live in the Arctic)? Thanks.
Well, I read this whole topic and unfortunately, my Sako 85 Classic in 30-06 caliber have problems in ejecting unloaded brass.
It will hit the scope (Leupold VX-6 2-12X on ExtraLow Optilock rings) everytime.
Once in a while the brass slips the extractor and is left on top of the magazine.
And once in a while the brass ejecting hits the action just bellow the ejection port at right side (the metal betwen the ejection port and the bolt handle), leaving a ding on the beautifull Cerakote finish Kampfeld did for me.
Until now, I have fired it about 80 times and at least on 1/3 or 1/4 of the time, the brass will not eject.
I have to test with a Low ring (mine is ExtraLow optilock), but today I made a few tests with Lapua and Winchester brass. It seems that the problem is worst on Lapua brass (1/3 to 1/4 of times it fte) than Winchester brass (about 1/10 to 1/15 fte). Looking closely at the brass I can see that the part where the ejector grabs the brass is bigger on Lapua than Winchester brass...
May be, combined with a weak extractor spring, this plays a big part on the ejector failures.
On my Sako 85 .375 H&H I did not experienced any issues (but I shot it only about 12 times until today).
So, I have a couple of questions:
1- What would be the proper way to disassembly the Extractor on a Sako 85 rifle? Any video?
2- Would a replacement Sako extractor (like Tubb or Harris gunworks) cure these problems, or at least increase realiability? I measure my Sako extractor and it is 0,209 inches wide.
I've made the same observation as LRCampos - except with A-zoom Snap Cap bullets. These eject flawlessly everytime. The place where the ejector grabs the brass (rim???) is much "thinner" on the A-zoom snap caps than the Winchester brass.
1- What would be the proper way to disassembly the Extractor on a Sako 85 rifle? Any video?
2- Would a replacement Sako extractor (like Tubb or Harris gunworks) cure these problems, or at least increase realiability? I measure my Sako extractor and it is 0,209 inches wide.
I would like to hear from Sako 85 owners that have had ejection problems (case hitting bottom of scope) with their rifles. Especially those that have been sent back to Beretta or one of their outsourced authorized repair dealers. If you had one repaired I would like to know just how they repaired what I consider to be a major design flaw(ejector at 6 o'clock position). As you guys can probably tell, I have just about had it with Beretta, Sako, and this expensive non-functioning rifle.
Thanks much,
G2
My question is what the hell did you do with your extreme weather??? Were you having problems with it too.......
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
What I can't figure out is why anyone would want to own one of these rifles?
Better ways to spend time than twisting one's self into knots trying to correct a faulty design..(sounds like the angle of ejection is wrong.How this is solved by having the extractor grab less of the rim I have no idea).
When enough people stop buying the things,Sako will screw its' head on straight and redesign it.
I wouldn't own one for 5 minutes before it would be down the road if it behaved as described.
Bob, I was looking at a Tikka the other day and I believe it has the same design. The first thought that crossed my mind was, "hmmmm does it throw the brass up into the scope, nah too many guys love these things for it to be a bad design flaw like that"....Or was my first thought, "damn this thing is smoooooooth!!!!!, what a slick action"....Weird place to put an extractor though....
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Just looked the Tikka's and A7 use a plunger-style ejector rather than the fixed blade of the 85. The plunger is located near the 3 O'clock position rather than 6 O'clock.
No hijack intended, BTW, just wondering why one line of the Sako family seems to have issues.
I never thought I'd grow up to be a grumpy old man, but I did, and I'm killin' it.
I have a stainless A7 in 300wsm. It does not eject properly but I have not yet contacted Beretta about it. I used it last year on a sheep hunt and had to pluck empty cases out with my finger. I got a nice ram but I am not happy with the ejection problem. I knew the ejection was week before I took it hunting but didn't have time to start over with a different rifle. the rifle is very accurate but if I can't get it ejecting properly it will have to hit the road.
I also have an A7 .300WSM Stainless, with the same issues. I've gone to high rings with a Leupold scope due to their lower/flatter windage caps, and now it works right about 95% of the time. Problem is, the scope is higher than I'd like it. I have a T3 in .270 that has had no problems. The difference is that the T3 has a closed top on their actions, while the A7 is open. That will obviously affect ejection.
What I can't figure out is why anyone would want to own one of these rifles?
Better ways to spend time than twisting one's self into knots trying to correct a faulty design..(sounds like the angle of ejection is wrong.How this is solved by having the extractor grab less of the rim I have no idea).
When enough people stop buying the things,Sako will screw its' head on straight and redesign it.
I wouldn't own one for 5 minutes before it would be down the road if it behaved as described.
I own/owned several with out any problems but I like the optilock rings/bases.
Show me another rifle for $1000-$1200 that you can buy that has a good trigger and most will punch three shots between .3-.7.
I like to trade guns and have owned most brands in several makes, model and calibers. I have never had any other factory rifles run with a Sako. Tikka and CZ are good but they are not Sako's.
I have hade piles of model 70's and 700's but very few would would put three shots near .5.
No, I had extra low Optiloc rings, then went straight to Medium Optiloc rings (used a Bushnell Elite 4200, 2.5-10X40 mm, then went to a an Elite 50 mm - still higher than I would like). Perhaps a different scope might have worked but I wasn't willing to spend alot of extra $$$ trying to figure out which scope would work with the extra low rings.
85 300WM Zeiss 3-12x56 with med Optilocks no issues. 85 260rem Zeiss 6-24x56 with med Optilocks no issues. 75 25-06 S&B 3-12x50 with low Optilocks no issues. 75 338WM S&B 2.5-10x56 with med Optilocks no issues.
Any pet loads with your 260 in a sako 85 you'd care to share ? Just got one - beautiful rifle.
Spot
Yes ! Here is one: Hornady 123 gr. A-max, I use Norma brass and Vihta Vuori N-550 44.4 gr. (which is over max according to the book but well within limits according to Quickload and my COAL is 74.mm or 2.91 " ) No pressure sign and incredibly accurate...here is a pick of the best 3 shot group at 100 metres
Wow!! I must have lucked out with my Sako 85 in 6.5X55. (M action) 2 1/2 - 8 vari-x III , shoots (5) 130 grain AB's into the .3's all day long, functions flawlessly under any and all conditions... could not expect better accuracy, functioning, general shootability in an out of the box, production hunting rifle...
I bought a used Finnlight in 270 before I read about this issue and it was a very accurate gun, slick feeding gun(would feed empty cases without a problem) but put a scope on it and it had the ejection problem. Down the road it went.
Talked to folks at Berreta (waste of time) and JB at accuflight and I don't think there is any proven, 100% way to fix it. I was unwilling to use hight mounts and/or turn my scope 90 degrees which was suggested.
Folks, sorry to bring back an old post... but I think I found the solution (at least for me) for the Sako 85 ejection problems.
As I posted earlier, my Sako 85 in 30-06 was having problems ejecting empty brass. Not only it hits the botton of the scope (mostly the right turret), but sometimes when extracting the extractor slipped on brass rim and left the brass on top of the magazine, freely.
Well, I decided to try a couple things and not being a machinest or having any machine at all (lathe, grind etc), I ordered a couple of Sako style extractors from Tubb, Harris and PTG, along with a set of extra power extractor springs of Gre Tan.
Well, after messing with the extractors I bought, I decided no one would fit or work on Sako bolt without length and carefull work on machines that I dont have. So, I took a look of that little transparent plastic bag with the extra power springs I bought to use with the new extractors and tought: Why not try?
I took one of the springs and compared with the Sako original spring and noticed that the Gre Tan springs are much longer... may be 3 turns of spring longer. Also, they seemed much more stronger.
I tried to install the Gre Tan spring but it is a little longer and even compressing it, there will be about hair of the extractor pin that will not go inside the pin hole to allow the original Sako extractor to fit its place.
So, I carefully tried to cut one turn of the coin (I realized I ended up cutting 2 turns, as you can see on the photo bellow. Later I used another spring and cut only one turn) to allow it to fit completely inside its hole on the bolt.
Here you can see the original Sako extractor, the extractor pin and (from top to botton), the original Sako extractor spring, the Gre Tan spring with 2 turns cutted and the Gre Tan springs how it came.
Now, it was very easy to just snap everything inside the bolt. First thing I noticed is that the extractor now has much more pressure against the side of the bolt, what is a good thing. But the final test is really how it would work ejecting new and used empty brass...
And all I can say is that I was amazed at HOW WELL it works!!! Every single of the more than 100 empty brass (new, full lenghted resized, fired etc) I put through my Sako 85, ejected 100%!!!
Some of the brass still hit the botton of the scope, but it flyes away from the action! This was not happening before the new spring!
Most of the brass was really ejected, like it had a plunger ejector. I can move the bolt slow or fast and everything works 100%. Not a single brass (I tried loaded rounds too and it worked perfect) was left inside the action, over the magazine. All of them was spitted out of the action!
Now, I have a 100% functional and beautifull Sako 85 Classic in 30-06 !!! Kampfeld made some custom touches, so it is a real nice rifle that now works 100%.
I am very happy and spent only about U$10,00 to fix something that Beretta SHOULD had done years ago.
Here it is:
And with a McMillan Classic stock I ordered from McMillan, for places where put its beautifull walnut stock is not recomended (someplaces here where the european warthog - sus scrofa - hides...):
Here the parts I used:
As you can see on the photo above, the Brownells part number for the spring kit is # 309-000-009.
I think that, for the price of the Gre Tan Extended Spring Kit, it is worth to try and see if it works on your rifles too. I hope it works for you!
I'm really amazed... An extractor on a detachable magazine.... Or I'm f.... Lucky with my sakos and friends too or this forum is full of alzheimer.....
Just bought a Sako 85 Finnbear (cabelas exclusive or something) in 7mm mag and im first day at the range im having problems as bad as gramps.. two out of three empty cases wont even eject they just lay there in the chamber.. Sending it to Beretta in a couple days.
I'm fortunate I guess, was sighting in an 85M Finnlight chambered in the Swede this past weekend, which ejected fired and nonfired cartridges without issue. No problems with scope strikes with ringmounts and a Leupold 2-7. To top all of it off, 3 shots with a 129 gr Hornady would fit under a dime and give back some change. This will be the death knell for a few deer this fall.
Yes the problem seems to be the long actions only. Ive searched and searched and everyone with short actions doesnt have the problem. Mine also has accuracy issues to boot. Used proven scope and even rechecked scope with another rifle to rule it out. Tried five different factory rounds and isnt consistent or even close to moa with any.
Update...Beretta contacted me and sent me a brand new rifle they stated that it failed the accuracy test..Taking new one to the range tomorrow..fingers crossed.
Update...Beretta contacted me and sent me a brand new rifle they stated that it failed the accuracy test..Taking new one to the range tomorrow..fingers crossed.
Nice, glad to hear. I just bought this same rifle in 30-06 the other day.
With the extractor at about 10 to 11 o'clock in the bolt face and the ejector at 6 o'clock you're still stuck with a very bad design. When the ejector hits the bottom of the case head and pushes it upward rim contact is maintained only with the lower point of the extractor. When the case neck makes contact with the scope tube it causes this pivot point to loose it's grip and the case head squirts down into the action. At that point it's all over. Though I didn't work with a loaded round with my rifle when observing the process repeatedly I suspect a seated bullet would make this condition even worse. Comforting to know in the event you have to eject a fail to fire round and get another in the chamber right now. As I've said before, every time the 85M ejects brass it almost didn't. A stronger plunger spring may make this less likely but cannot totally compensate for the design fault. The actions described above can be easily replicated if you are so amind.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
Mine is still working without fail. M-sized action chambered 9.3x62. No matter how hard I pull the extracted case back into the ejector, the case cannot push through and defeat the spring tension grip of the extractor claw to slip out and go straight up into the scope. The claw maintains its grip and the case flips out in the direction of the claw's position on the bolt face. If I were to stick and bind the case into the chamber, I suspect that the extractor claw would have enough grip on the case head to rip off a huge chunk of the case.
As a result, I've been greatly pleased with this design using three 85s chambered in 338, 375, and now this 9.3x62. All three ran without fail straight from the box, with this later 9.3x62 being about as close to perfect tune as it gets. I'd suspect spring tension of the extractor claw, if using spec cases and the ejector is able to over power the claw grip and push the case through the claw and straight up. This may not be the spring at all, but could be a gummed up claw and spring in need of cleaning and oil. If it is a weak spring, then a stiffer spring should result in a stronger grasp of the claw. Even on a perfected 98 Mauser, if the full length extractor was out of proper tension, the performance could suffer.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
Well took the new finnbear to the range today and had another weird problem. The gun extracted empty cases better it would occasionally hit the receiver at the back of the ejection port and scratch the metal a little bit but that doesnt bother me. What bothered me was the gun would only shoot with a clean barrel and i mean really clean. First three shots i would get a half inch group and then two fliers. I let the barrel cool and didnt clean and shoot again and they wouldnt group again. So i let cool clean again and bam another half inch group. Any ideas? I mean usually a gun shoots better with a fouled barrel.
I dont know what to do its the most beautiful gun ive ever owned it even has better wood than the last one. If i send it in they will likely try and send me another replacement and i dont want a new gun. Considering sending it to Hill Country Rifles to get accurized.
Break it in first. I've had almost a dozen 85's now. They all work better after flushing out the bolt nose, blowing out the extractor area with compressed air and oiling with a light viscosity oil. I would clean the bore well and clean between groups on your next range trip. It may settle down. You may try waiting longer between shots too. Could be the reason you're seeing shots 4 and 5 walk is a hot barrel.
Yes i figured shots 4 and 5 were fliers due to hot barrel and i believe i may be getting some contact between stock and barrel after it heats up. Its crazy because i shot 3 different kinds of ammo and with a clean cold barrel( no foul shot) 3 round group half inch and them the same two fliers cool for twenty to thirty minutes and wouldnt group.
One thing I've had to realize is nothing's perfect. Every design has pros and cons. It's just deciding what characteristics are most important to you. There are a few things I don't like about the 85's but they are still fantastic guns. I'd try my flushing/lube trick on the extractor and see if it still flings empties into the rear bridge of the receiver.
Will do horseman appreciate the suggestion. The extraction isnt really bothering me at all. Another thing which i find unusual is how long it takes me to clean this gun. My sons tikka takes only a few swipes and doesnt foul.
Yes i agree DakotaDeer this experience has been a nightmare. A rifle that costs this much shouldnt need anything. Very dissapointed to say the least but i will try to make the best of it and get it shooting consistently.
Hey jw, just wondering how it is going with your gun? I bought the same Sako Finnbear in 30-06 and at first had trouble ejecting cartridges until I found a sweet spot by sliding my scope back and forth. I have had a couple of marks on the rear of the receiver where empties have hit also, however, everything seems to be ejecting great now after playing with the scope positioning. Also, I'd like to report, at the range I had some great 3 shot groups with this gun and 5 shot groups that measured ~1.09" with Federal Fusion 165 grain. A little more open than the "5 shot guarantee" but I am not the best shooter out there, just a hunter, and I am sure many could shoot tighter groups from this gun than I.
Yeah, I always position scopes to clear empties rather than where it needs to be to shoot it properly...
Really????
Hey now, he's just following the advice Beretta Customer Service (there's that 3 word oxymoron again) gave me. God as my witness I was told they couldn't guarantee every scope and mount combination to work so I should experiment with different scopes and mounts and positioning. LOL.....I mean really, it's only a $1500 or so rifle what do you expect??? that they should work with just any old medium height rings and any old 1" tube scope positioned just where YOU want it??? You gotta be flexible man. LOL.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
NEhunter.. i contacted beretta again and they told me to shoot premium ammo and give that a try...i said it grouped a half inch 3 round groups and then wouldnt shoot again till cleaned. He had no answer except try premium ammo so i contacted JB at accuflite arms and spoke with him for awhile about it. Hew also told me to dip the bolt face in acetone then dry and it should help with extraction issues he said dirt and powder get in there easily. Anyways im considering just forgetting about Beretta and putting one of JB's custom walther barrels on the gun which he cerakotes and pillar beds. He also does a 40 round barrel break in as well. Guaranteed 5 shot 1/2 moa..its tempting but havent decided.
I would like to hear from Sako 85 owners that have had ejection problems (case hitting bottom of scope) with their rifles. Especially those that have been sent back to Beretta or one of their outsourced authorized repair dealers. If you had one repaired I would like to know just how they repaired what I consider to be a major design flaw(ejector at 6 o'clock position). As you guys can probably tell, I have just about had it with Beretta, Sako, and this expensive non-functioning rifle.
Thanks much,
G2
I would say Sako isn't the only rifle and New Balance the only sport shoes......
You see, one does not even have to worry about bolt lift.
I have a 1:8 twist Krieger barrel coming for my 260 - should be here next month - I'm hopping I get groups like that.
Originally Posted by Konnari
Originally Posted by Spotshooter
Konnari -
Any pet loads with your 260 in a sako 85 you'd care to share ? Just got one - beautiful rifle.
Spot
Yes ! Here is one: Hornady 123 gr. A-max, I use Norma brass and Vihta Vuori N-550 44.4 gr. (which is over max according to the book but well within limits according to Quickload and my COAL is 74.mm or 2.91 " ) No pressure sign and incredibly accurate...here is a pick of the best 3 shot group at 100 metres
Well I just purchased a Sako A7 in 22-250 and had the ejection problem and was fortunate that Cabelas did an exchange another rifle. What a disappointment, I never even thought to read if Sako had any issues..now a quick search on the net and its a big issue with new Sako A7's and 85's
Replaced the extractor spring as recommended by LRCampos, and that helped a little. Rifle would then eject properly as long as it was held vertical. So I improvised a deflector using a thin piece of teflon cutting board sheet from hardware store. Would include photos but it seems that I cannot add images stored on my computer.
Could you describe how to remove the extractor and spring? I'm about to do that myself and would like to make sure I go about it the right way. Thanks!
I just removed mine last night in preparation for the springs I ordered from GreTan. Push down the plunger under the extractor with a very small flat tip screwdriver. After that pull the extractor out and up at the same time. When it comes free the plunger and spring will fly far so a plastic bag over the works would be a good idea. It's a little fiddly and much easier to put back in than take out. Be careful not to scratch the bolt body.
Thanks for the tips guys. Gonna order a few of these springs for a few future 85's that are sure to come to my home just in case. Sucks when they dont work, but my Finnbear working flawlessly is a very very nice gun IMO.
The gun is very nice NE..I contacted Beretta and they want me to send in the gun. This being the second one..So after much deliberating ive decided to keep the gun and do what i gotta do to fix (rebarrel) possibly. Im going to try tubbs final finish first and if that dont work it will be sent to Hill Country Rifles to have a benchmark barrel installed and a cerakoate job.
The springs didn't fix mine either. The Gre-Tan springs only fit after trimmed to factory spring length. Any longer and you can't get the extractor back in.
I ended up returning mine after trying the springs. I only cut maybe a quarter of a turn or so and was able to get it back together, but it didn't improve the ejection at all. Maybe when they come out with the Model 95 or whatever I'll take another look at Sako. Really disappointed in Sako, but thrilled with the M70 Extreme Weather SS I got to replace it.
I ended up returning mine after trying the springs. I only cut maybe a quarter of a turn or so and was able to get it back together, but it didn't improve the ejection at all. Maybe when they come out with the Model 95 or whatever I'll take another look at Sako. Really disappointed in Sako, but thrilled with the M70 Extreme Weather SS I got to replace it.
Sounds like a lose/win situation.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I scratch my nuts and ask, "why does Shrapnel love these things so much?????" Well, the Sako's, not my nuts... . Different strokes for different folks I guess...
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Don't get carried away boys. It's not a problem on all 85s. I recently bought a kit from Brownells including spring, plunger and extractor. My 85 in 30-06 which occasionally grazed the turret cap no longer does. Things can seem a lot worse on forums than they are in reality. Ive owned/own 6 85s and 2 have had problems. Both still functioned and killed animals they just kissed the turret cap on the way out. My Sakos would be the last guns is part with.
For $1800 bucks one shouldn't have to buy a kit from brownells to fix this problem. Always wanted find one of the sako lites in a 325 wsm.
You're right it shouldn't need fixing but it's a pretty low number that do IME. Haven't found anything I like better yet so for me it's still worth it.
For $1800 bucks one shouldn't have to buy a kit from brownells to fix this problem....
I couldn't agree more. Actually, I was a bit disappointed in this particular rifle for a couple more reasons, too. There was a large patch on the barrel where it appeared that the texture/bead blasting wasn't done very well. I left a very noticeable patch of discoloration. Also, there was a fairly deep tooling mark or scratch in the bore about a half inch in from the muzzle. I realize I probably just got a lemon, but I would expect more from a premium rifle maker. I really liked how the gun fit and I really liked the looks of grey laminate stock, but I just didn't want to mess around with repairs/replacement after that experience.
Contrast that experience with the M70 Extreme Weather I replaced it with and I'm happy with my decision. I realize that the button rifled barrel on the M70 may not last as long, but the gun seems to shoot just as well and I can seat the bullets into the lands if I so desired. Couldn't get anywhere near the lands on the Sako. I can also put whatever super-turret scope I want on the M70 and never have to give a second thought about ejection. Not that I will, but I could...
I still don't doubt at all that the Sako is a very fine rifle, but I did not get a favorable first impression. After reading about all the problems with ejection, even if it's a small percentage, it went against my better judgement to even give the Sako a try. The only reason I did was the dealers insistence that I would be able to return it for a full refund if I was at all unhappy with it. He and I were both disappointed that it didn't work out, but he didn't give me any grief over the return.
I can't put my finger on anything concrete, but if you look at their catalogs or website, they don't say the stainless barrels are hammer forged. They also don't say any of the "shadow" guns are hammer forged whether stainless or not.
I also read an article someplace else that stated they don't hammer forge the stainless barrels. If someone could prove otherwise, I'd be delighted. The roughness in the new barrel seem to be consistent with other button rifled barrels I have, too. Other than that, I can't say for sure one way or the other.
I did find this info on their website that states blued steel barrels are hammer forged.
For $1800 bucks one shouldn't have to buy a kit from brownells to fix this problem. Always wanted find one of the sako lites in a 325 wsm.
You're right it shouldn't need fixing but it's a pretty low number that do IME. Haven't found anything I like better yet so for me it's still worth it.
It wouldn't have been worth it if yours hadn't worked though now would it. The most pitiful part of the whole issue is not that a small but significant number of 85M rifles have this ejection issue; but the fact Beretta/Sako refuse to acknowledge it as a warranty issue. When I was told by customer service that they only warranty the rifle to eject empty brass without the scope mounted that told me the whole story. With the ejector blade at dead center 6 O'clock on the bolt face and the extractor at the 10 or 11 O'clock position it's obvious there's little room for error in the design. But Beretta/Sako says live with it.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
Had it not worked I'd have sent it down the road and tried another just as I've done with a lot of rifles. You're not married to it and they make new ones everyday.
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...................Hb
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. Different strokes for different folks I guess... 
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