Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Nightforce Vs Leupold

I want to get into LR shooting nothing formal.

I am looking at the NF 5.5x22x50 NXS and the
LEUPOLD Mark 4 Tactical 8.5-25X50LR I can get the leo for 1300 and the NF for 1700.

What are the differences in tracking, clarity, reliability etc.

Any input would be great.

Pop,

Nightforce - professional use,serious competition,high round count.

Leupold - casual use,serious competition with frozen or modified erector,low round count.


dave

Yes, the NP-1

What do military snipers use ?

Schmidt and Bender

Nightforce

?s

What do military snipers use ?

Schmidt and Bender

Nightforce

?s

I have never seen a NF fail (including the one with the bullet through it). I'm sure they break like all things made, but I would bet they have the lowest failure rate of any US issued sniper scope.

Excuse me ? Nightforce gets a military contract every year for about 50 scopes from what I've seen. The US Army has long used Leupolds in several forms on their sniper and other tactical rifles.
The USMC does use S&B's. That's because they wrote specs that fit the S&B scope they adopted back when Leupold didn't make anything that close the specs the USMC insisted on.
I'd also point out that it's hardly fair comparing NF scopes to Leupolds in general. Afterall, Leupold makes everything from cheap $200 scopes all the way the the $4000 Mk.8's.
Speaking of the Mk.8, the military asked the major scope companies to develop a scope with those specs. Apparently only Leupold could make one that actually worked.
As to reliability, how come NF has such a huge backlog on repairs for their scopes ? Last I heard, it was over six months. Owners with "minor" problems were encouraged not to send their scopes in at all. In contrast, when I last talked to Leupold, which was last week, their response was " I'm not sure, send it in and we'll look at it." E

I sure hate to be the negative one here but a buddy of mine shoots at the Nationals each year along with his son. The son owns several junior records and is an optics nut. He has rotated through more scopes than I can count but he went from a Mark IV to a NF and liked it to start with but in the past year and a half it's been back to NF for 3 different repairs. He has told me he sure wishes for his Mark IV back. I looked through his NF and was not impressed by the optic clarity and contrast but maybe that was just me. I know others have different experiences and for the most part it does seem the NF's are pretty bomb proof but that's what I know.

the NF that took an AK47 bullet sold me my first NF. the story went that the guy using that scope just taped up the holes up and continued using the scope until a replacement could be sourced.

I'd rather have the old Unertl and Swaro fixed 10Xs than any Leupold. Never seen a Leupy on a Barrett semi have you ?

E, stop. Please. You know nothing of military sniping or sniper equipment.



These are the Leupolds issued in the military.

Ultra M3A (or MK4) 10x40
MK4 LR M3 3.5-10x40
MK4 4.5-14x50 M1
TS-30 A2 3�9�36
MK8 1.1-8x24 CQBSS
MK4 34mm 6.5-20x50

There are/were a few others in limited numbers.


The only ones that don't have consistent problems are the fixed 10x, the MK8 CQBSS, and the new 34mm 6.5-20x50.


The rest fail at an unacceptable rate for military sniper use.






Your statement about Nightforce's military contracts and repair backlog is false. They have, and have had, several contracts within USSOCOM, NAVSPECWAR, and USASOC. They currently have one worth 25.8 million dollars.

They do have a huge backlog across the board with their optics because they are selling every single scope they can make. It has nothing to do with repairs.





I have spent 7 years as a military duty slotted sniper. I have been issued, used, and shot every scope mentioned in this thread. I have seen the variable Leupolds fail at around 25-30% rate. That is- it is not uncommon to have 2 or 3 variable power Leupolds out of 10 develop issues when used hard. I have seen both S&B and Premier scopes have issues (granted there have been very few). I have never seen a NF fail (including the one with the bullet through it). I'm sure they break like all things made, but I would bet they have the lowest failure rate of any US issued sniper scope.

Formidilosus,

Thank you for your service sir!

That never has been NF's claim to fame. It's their utmost repeatability and bulletproof construction. I don't find their optics up to par with the scope price, but I have the luxury of not having people shooting back at me.

Ya gotta love the way the troll make stuff up when they have nothing to contribute to a thread !

As I said:

Nightforce & Schmidt and Bender.

I'd rather have the old Unertl and Swaro fixed 10Xs than any Leupold. Never seen a Leupy on a Barrett semi have you ?

Formidilosus,

Thank you for your service.

If I may ask, exactly what kind of failures did you see with the Leupolds?

JD338

Guys I appreciate the thanks but there is no reason for it. There are a lot of people that have paid a heavy price in the last decade and I'm not one of them. I've lived my childhood dream for the last 7+ years.

F, of the issues you have seen with the Leupy's not maintaining accurate tracking adjustments, does it occur on a particular weapon system? Also, does the problem usually show up after a given number of shots or adjustments? In an earlier post, you said something like 30% of the Leupolds have malfunctions. Does this mean that the remaining 70% performed as advertised, indefinitely? Also, just out of curiosity, how many rounds do you guys fire during your training in CONUS, and on what weapon systems/calibers? Thanks for your time.

Jeff

+2

Hate war

Formidilosus, so now Leupold does make scopes that work, but most of other Leupold scopes fail at a 20-30% rate which is unacceptable for military use ?...//...And to call all of them unreliable because their cheaper models don't measure up to the rigors of tactical use. E

What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Who the [bleep] loves war anyway? Do you also hate rainy days traffic lights and rude people? kee-rist. Otherwise a great informative thread.

Formidilosus,...//...Even you have posted that the much cheaper 6X42, FX3's work fine and are reliable.

These are the Leupolds issued in the military.

Ultra M3A (or MK4) 10x40
MK4 LR M3 3.5-10x40
MK4 4.5-14x50 M1
TS-30 A2 3�9�36
MK8 1.1-8x24 CQBSS
MK4 34mm 6.5-20x50

There are/were a few others in limited numbers.


The only ones that don't have consistent problems are the fixed 10x, the MK8 CQBSS, and the new 34mm 6.5-20x50.


The rest fail at an unacceptable rate for military sniper use.

All I can say is that our poor military guys sure do shoot alot of unreliable variable Leupolds.
E

cfran,

E is a fuggin' mullet. He's too old to change or read with comprehension being the goal. He reads looking for his own two or three preconceived notions. When he finds them, that's the center piece for his argument. When he doesn't, he just skips over that part of the post. He's a worthless mullet.

Some hotheaded wingnuts (Jorge!) ... Soldiers are the best. Now STFU ...

I don't harbor any anger for E, quite the contrary. I'm not sure calling anyone a "mullet" will do any good, with that said it sure would be nice if he'd stop with the lies/misinformation. Otherwise I agree that you've nailed his mode of operation.

Funny you mentioned reading skills here Dood. He commented that the Leupold posted would not be as good as the Nightforce mentioned. Then he says later that Leupold variables aren't reliable. Then he lists the Mk.4 3.5-10X40 variable as in service by the US military. But we are suppose to believe that Leupold variables aren't reliable......
Oh, I nearly forgot. Didn't he mentioned the new Mk8 scopes as also being in service with the military ?
All I can say is that our poor military guys sure do shoot alot of unreliable variable Leupolds.
Funny they don't wise up and use Nightforce scopes instead.
Most of the serious tactical shooters and ex military guys I've run into over the years say they are both excellent. The trick is to buy the NXS or the Mk.4 Leupold that meets your requirements. Try to get by with a cheap Leupold converted to tactical shooting by adding a few dials and it might not work under heavy use.
On the other hand, don't believe that NXS scopes will last forever under any conditions. Their very long waiting time proves that isn't so. E

Jimminy cricket.
F, do you guys just swap out scopes, zero them and get back to business when one goes south? What is the SOP for a defective scope and getting that weapon back in the fight?

Depends on the system and unit. For the M24 it had to go back to Remington as it was a "System".

When anyone on the field pulled a bone-headed play, or the guy you could count on to screw up, did, our coaches called them a mullet. As far as calling E a mullet doing any good; it makes me feel better. If others are offended by such an innocuous word as "mullet" perhaps they're on the wrong forum.

E, why are you speculating on military sniper optics? You have no clue what you are talking about. "Serious tactical shooters or ex military???? Give me a break. That statement is all the more ludicrous because you are "arguing" with a sniper right now. I have been issued and used the M110, M24, MK12 MOD 0 and MOD 1, SR 25, M2010, MK 13 MOD 5, M82 and M107 Barrett, among others.

Leupold has only one (1) variable scope that was selected over other optics by the military. That being the MK8 1.1-8x CQBSS. The rest came as a package with the weapon system. Knight Armament chose the MK4 3.5-10x40 LR as the scope to put on the M110 SASS. Remington chose the 6.5-20x50 34mm MK4 for the M2010, and Barrett chose the MK4 4.5-14x50 for the M107.

The sniper scopes that have been tested and won contracts by the military in the last ten years are Schmidt and Bender and Nightforce.


Leupold is starting to get their head right and are producing some truly good scopes with the 34mm tube 6.5-20x50 MK4, the MK8 line, and the new MK 6's show promise.

Awesome... I wonder how much tax payers have to pay for such model efficiency.

My intent is NOT to hijack this thread and I apologize but suffice to say I have neither the desire nor patience to dig up the scads of things JeffObama has spewed about the armed forces and again WTF does "hating war" have to to with this thread? AV thanks for the kind words and again I apologize to all but this jerk just makes me nuts. jorge

E, why are you speculating on military sniper optics? You have no clue what you are talking about. "Serious tactical shooters or ex military???? Give me a break. That statement is all the more ludicrous because you are "arguing" with a sniper right now. I have been issued and used the M110, M24, MK12 MOD 0 and MOD 1, SR 25, M2010, MK 13 MOD 5, M82 and M107 Barrett, among others.

Leupold has only one (1) variable scope that was selected over other optics by the military. That being the MK8 1.1-8x CQBSS. The rest came as a package with the weapon system. Knight Armament chose the MK4 3.5-10x40 LR as the scope to put on the M110 SASS. Remington chose the 6.5-20x50 34mm MK4 for the M2010, and Barrett chose the MK4 4.5-14x50 for the M107.

The sniper scopes that have been tested and won contracts by the military in the last ten years are Schmidt and Bender and Nightforce.


Leupold is starting to get their head right and are producing some truly good scopes with the 34mm tube 6.5-20x50 MK4, the MK8 line, and the new MK 6's show promise.

Boy, you are one screechy little teakettle.

If you did have the patience and desire to dig through the scads of things I've said about our military you'll not find me denigrating the soldier. Ever. You will find me talking about the size, cost, and mission-- which are things you yourself have your issues with-- so please, either back up what you claim about me or STFU. But enough with the petulance and distortions. Not cool.

Unless ALOT has changed since I was in the Army, just 'cause the military uses something, doesn't mean it's good, reliable, etc. When I was in (15-20yrs ago), alot of our equipment was junk.

Listening to the actual users (like Formidilosus) experience/opinions/etc. gives better info on the stuff than just knowing that it's used by the military. Not saying Leupold is junk, etc. (I have several myself on hunting rifles and I like 'em), just saying don't think just 'cause the military uses something that it must be the best of the best.

...Frankly, Eremicus is making an absolute fool of himself.

Formidilosus
What would be your current favorite unit?

What would be your dream unit?

Say for out to 1000 yards


dave

So say someday my Mark 4 variable takes a dive, would I be wise in replacing it with the fixed 10x Mark 4?

Formidilosus,

Thanks not just for your service but the excellent info you've provided on this thread. I've used a lot of various brands of scopes but not usually on the same sorts of rifles you have experience with.

One of the things I found interesting was your comments on fixed 6x Leupolds for your own hunting. What's your experience with higher-X fixed Leupolds?

I opted for the SWFA SS-HD 5-20x50mm. Just ordered it

Thanks for the info. I haven't tried the benchrest fixed Leupolds, but have been told by top benchresters of the "problems" getting the last few hundredths of an inch in group size. I do have a Mark 4 10x on one of my hunting rifles and so far it has worked very well. Time will tell!

My wife likes even more magnification in hunting scopes than I do, and has been switching over to the 8x36 M8 when she can find them. I kinda wish they made an 8x42 FX-III or something like that, but also doubt there's much of a market for one!

Formidilosus
What would be your current favorite unit?

What would be your dream unit?

Say for out to 1000 yards
dave

Thanks for the info. I haven't tried the benchrest fixed Leupolds, but have been told by top benchresters of the "problems" getting the last few hundredths of an inch in group size. I do have a Mark 4 10x on one of my hunting rifles and so far it has worked very well. Time will tell!

My wife likes even more magnification in hunting scopes than I do, and has been switching over to the 8x36 M8 when she can find them. I kinda wish they made an 8x42 FX-III or something like that, but also doubt there's much of a market for one!

After reading this thread, and what I consider to be expert opinion and actual use from Formidilosis, I have brilliantly come to the following conclusions:

1. If you're a sniper or tactical guy and shoot a whole lot,
use something besides Leupold.
2. If you're a hunter, you'll likely never wear out a Leupold